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  1. #26
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    My vote would be to fly the Stars and Stripes high and proud! Yes, we need to honor our fallen brothers/sisters and only time will heal our wounds. US Military protocal states that we cannot declare war if the US flag is flying at half staff. Lets always remember our fellow Americans that have gone before us-God Bless America!
    "Stay Safe, Stay Low and lets Rock-n-Roll"

  2. #27
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    I agree with many of you, that we should not raise them until our brothers are found. But at the same time I dont want to show any disrespect to our flag or our country. But if someone is taking a vote I say leave them at half.
    K.A. Dempsey
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  3. #28
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    Can someone IN NYC advise what the Fire Stations, Fire HQ and Academy are doing with their Flags - Half-Staff or Full-Staff?

    Several posters have suggested that they will follow the lead of the NYC Firefighters and Administration - We need to know just what NYC is actually doing.

  4. #29
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    Personally I feel that if you are going to keep your flag at half staff that you should do so until ALL rescue efforts are completed. Not just those for FFs, Rescue Workers, and Police Officers, but for all the victims of this horrible tragedy. Many local businesses are putting their flags back to full staff and I understand this. Many want to put their flags high into the sky to show their pride in our country. I think it should be an individual choice. My father is keeping his at half-staff until all rescue efforts are stopped in Washington, NYC, and Pennsy. Take care and God Bless.
    Never forget those who went before and sacrified to make us better and stronger as a fire service and a nation. 09-11-01 forever etched in time and our memories. God Speed Boys!

  5. #30
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    Here's a link to the Forehouse.com article from the IAFF that "requests" Fire and Emergency Services to continue flying the Flag at Half-Staff until October 11.

    It would really help all of us to decide what to do in this regard if someone could get President Bush to make a public statement on the subject of who should or may continue to fly the Flag at Half-Staff.

    Anyone have direct access to the Oval Office?

    Link: Firehouse.com IAFF article on Flags.

  6. #31
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    Originally posted by Phred:
    Anyone have direct access to the Oval Office?

    We ALL do!
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0010914-7.html

    which ammends:
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0010912-1.html

    Until sunset on Saturday 9/22/01 --- so ordered by the authority vested in the President of the United States of America by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America.

    I suspect most of you swore an Oath to support this Constitution. Therefore, if you abide by the orders of the President, your flags should be returned to full staff by now.

    How is this for an idea, why not put them back at full staff... and then when the Memorial Service is finally held, have the President order them lowered for a 24-hour period?
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

  7. #32
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    I feel the same way...If we want the flag at half...we should be able to...we are showing respect for those who lost thier lives and loved ones...
    -chad-
    What r they gunna do arrest us!!!!!!?

    [ 09-25-2001: Message edited by: Truckie465 ]

  8. #33
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    No offense to the President or the consitution, but I think if you want to keep your flag at half staff in memory then you should do so for as long as you need to. Take care.
    Never forget those who went before and sacrified to make us better and stronger as a fire service and a nation. 09-11-01 forever etched in time and our memories. God Speed Boys!

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    If the usual mourning period is 30 days, then let's give our fallen brothers and sisters at least that.
    Half staff until October 11th!

    Be careful out there.

    1261Truckie

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    Don't mean to steal anyone's thunder, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE go to the forum I started entitled "PLEASE READ ....IT COULD MEAN THE WORLD TO A FALLEN FFs CHILD" and take a minute out of your day to send a message of love and support to the families of our fallen heroes! THANK YOU!
    Never forget those who went before and sacrified to make us better and stronger as a fire service and a nation. 09-11-01 forever etched in time and our memories. God Speed Boys!

  11. #36
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    Originally posted by hctrouble25:
    if you want to keep your flag at half staff in memory then you should do so for as long as you need to.
    Here's an interesting question... is it "your flag" or is it "our" (as in the Country's) flag?
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

  12. #37
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    Originally posted by MetalMedic:

    Here's an interesting question... is it "your flag" or is it "our" (as in the Country's) flag?
    VERRY interesting point, sir!

    I first opened this post with the thought of developing a great desire to keep the Flag at Half-Staff until all the Emergency Services folks had been recovered. As some have pointed out, that may not be possible...

    Please remember we need to UNIFY the Country; not create another argument.

    Many wish to follow our President's order to resume flying the Flag at Full-Staff; I agree that we should follow the Country's Leader and abide by his wishes.

    That said; I'd like to know IF the President has been advised that many in the Fire Service would like to fly our Flags at Half-Staff for an additional period of time; AND would appreciate it if HE (the President) would issue an executive order permitting us to do that.

    We need a messenger to carry this request into the Oval Office. I'm not certain an e-mail to the White House would ever get past the mail readers . The President might at least listen to a plea from the IAFF leadership. Any volunteers to become the messenger?

  13. #38
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    Excellent idea Phred! I would see nothing wrong if the President were to issue an order that would permit the flags in front of Public Safety Facilities (Fire, Police, EMS) to remain at half-staff until 10/11/01. This would make it an option to serve the needs of each individual department as they feel to be most appropriate.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

  14. #39
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    I believe his order affect federal facilities. He did not infer all flags should be raised. If you have suffered a loss, or feel you have, by all means trim your flag.

    The nations firefighters all suffered a great loss, I don't think you have been ordered to raise your flags by the President.

    Just my opinion.

  15. #40
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    E229Lt ~
    You might have missed this earlier post:

    Originally posted by Phred:
    Can someone IN NYC advise what the Fire Stations, Fire HQ and Academy are doing with their Flags - Half-Staff or Full-Staff?

    Several posters have suggested that they will follow the lead of the NYC Firefighters and Administration - We need to know just what NYC is actually doing.
    Lieutenant ~
    We'd like to know what the FDNY is doing with their Flags. Can you tell us how the Station and Administrative Flags are being displayed?

    And helmets off to ALL the FDNY Folks!

  16. #41
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    Originally posted by E229lt:
    I believe his order affect federal facilities. He did not infer all flags should be raised. If you have suffered a loss, or feel you have, by all means trim your flag.

    The nations firefighters all suffered a great loss, I don't think you have been ordered to raise your flags by the President.

    Just my opinion.

    The order read as follows:
    "that the flag of the United States shall be flown at half-staff at the White House and upon all public buildings and grounds, at all military posts and naval stations, and on all naval vessels of the Federal Government in the District of Columbia and throughout the United States and its Territories and possessions"

    That pretty much covers everything publicly owned... but I doubt they will put you in jail for defying the proclamation.

    As for the 30 day rule.. that only applies to the death of a President or former President according to the United States Code Title 36; Chapter 10; Paragraph 175:
    "The flag shall be flown at half-staff thirty days from the death of the President or a former President; ten days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress"

    So, if you follow the U.S. Code, the President exceeded the customary time period in observing these deaths.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

  17. #42
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    OK so it is OUR flag...but if you are flying it at YOUR house then I think you should be able to do what you wish about the half staff issue. Personally I would like to see Fire Stations following the 30-day mourning period that IAFF asked us to participate in. At our department when a member passes on we keep the bunting and the sign up for a 30-day mourning period so why not do the same for the FDNY? We have already decided to keep ours up for 30-days....the vote was unanimous at our meeting.
    Never forget those who went before and sacrified to make us better and stronger as a fire service and a nation. 09-11-01 forever etched in time and our memories. God Speed Boys!

  18. #43
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    I agree with most of everyone else on this issue. I think that the flag should be at half-staff in all fire departments at least for 30 days, or until all the firefighters are found.

    God Bless The Fallen
    You gain strength courage and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face...you must do the thing you think you cannot do.
    - Eleanor Roosevelt

  19. #44
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    I think everyone here would like to continue showing support for our brothers and respect for the fallen. We also need to support our president who has, in my opinion, embraced the firefighters and emergency service workers both fallen and standing.

    These fallen brothers will not be forgotten, but there are many ways we can show our respect and still set an example to the public we serve that we are behind our president and nation 100%. Anything less will be the start of a divided nation, which we cannot afford, ever.

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    FYI brothers and sisters:

    I recieved an e-mail today from my Captain that was routed from the IAFC and the White House that stated that if fire stations wanted to keep thier flags at half staff until October 11 that was fine with the White House.

  21. #46
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    Could you please Post a copy of the e-mail here for all of us to see?

    This sounds like the information that a lot of us were hoping for.

    Thanks in advance.

  22. #47
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    As you requested Ladies and Gentleman.

    ----Original Message Follows----
    From: News
    Subject: White House Approves of Fire Service Flags Half-Staff
    Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:15:15 -0400

    > IAFC MEMBER ALERT
    >
    > Thursday, September 27, 2000, 2:15pm EDT.... We have received
    > confirmation from the White House that we have their permission to keep
    > Fire Station flags at half-staff until October 11, per Chief Buckman's
    > request of all IAFC members earlier this week.
    >
    > Confirmation was received from Anthony Mackery, White House Office of
    > Political Affairs, who stated, "The President only controls those areas
    > that are federal buildings, and of course, fire stations do not fall under
    > federal jurisdiction. Rather, they fall under state, county or local
    > jurisdiction. So if fire stations want to keep their flags at half-mast
    > until the 11th of October, that's certainly fine with the White House."
    >
    > However, to Mackery's point regarding state and local jurisdiction, any
    > members who are still concerned with local policy and protocol may want to
    > consult their local government representatives and act accordingly.
    >
    Thank you for your interest in this issue.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ------
    The preceding is provided courtesy of the
    ICHIEFS Communications Department.
    For more information contact 703/273-0911 or
    e-mail
    Don't forget to check out the ICHIEFS web site at www.ichiefs.org .

  23. #48
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    THANKS, PWC

    Now we know we're not disregarding Presidential Orders by flying Flag at Half-Staff. That sure helps! It will make a lot of us feel better about doing what we really wanted to do in the first place.

    [ 09-28-2001: Message edited by: Phred ]

  24. #49
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    Thank God (and President Bush) we can put this issue to bed and go on with our lives! Thanks for posting this!
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

  25. #50
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    The way I see it, if we give each of our fallen 30 days at half staff, we can raise the flag back to the top November 12, 2029.

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