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  1. #41
    Forum Member MetalMedic's Avatar
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    Originally posted by E229lt:
    I believe his order affect federal facilities. He did not infer all flags should be raised. If you have suffered a loss, or feel you have, by all means trim your flag.

    The nations firefighters all suffered a great loss, I don't think you have been ordered to raise your flags by the President.

    Just my opinion.

    The order read as follows:
    "that the flag of the United States shall be flown at half-staff at the White House and upon all public buildings and grounds, at all military posts and naval stations, and on all naval vessels of the Federal Government in the District of Columbia and throughout the United States and its Territories and possessions"

    That pretty much covers everything publicly owned... but I doubt they will put you in jail for defying the proclamation.

    As for the 30 day rule.. that only applies to the death of a President or former President according to the United States Code Title 36; Chapter 10; Paragraph 175:
    "The flag shall be flown at half-staff thirty days from the death of the President or a former President; ten days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress"

    So, if you follow the U.S. Code, the President exceeded the customary time period in observing these deaths.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter


  2. #42
    Senior Member hctrouble25's Avatar
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    OK so it is OUR flag...but if you are flying it at YOUR house then I think you should be able to do what you wish about the half staff issue. Personally I would like to see Fire Stations following the 30-day mourning period that IAFF asked us to participate in. At our department when a member passes on we keep the bunting and the sign up for a 30-day mourning period so why not do the same for the FDNY? We have already decided to keep ours up for 30-days....the vote was unanimous at our meeting.
    Never forget those who went before and sacrified to make us better and stronger as a fire service and a nation. 09-11-01 forever etched in time and our memories. God Speed Boys!

  3. #43
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    I agree with most of everyone else on this issue. I think that the flag should be at half-staff in all fire departments at least for 30 days, or until all the firefighters are found.

    God Bless The Fallen
    You gain strength courage and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face...you must do the thing you think you cannot do.
    - Eleanor Roosevelt

  4. #44
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    I think everyone here would like to continue showing support for our brothers and respect for the fallen. We also need to support our president who has, in my opinion, embraced the firefighters and emergency service workers both fallen and standing.

    These fallen brothers will not be forgotten, but there are many ways we can show our respect and still set an example to the public we serve that we are behind our president and nation 100%. Anything less will be the start of a divided nation, which we cannot afford, ever.

  5. #45
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    FYI brothers and sisters:

    I recieved an e-mail today from my Captain that was routed from the IAFC and the White House that stated that if fire stations wanted to keep thier flags at half staff until October 11 that was fine with the White House.

  6. #46
    Forum Member Phred1's Avatar
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    Could you please Post a copy of the e-mail here for all of us to see?

    This sounds like the information that a lot of us were hoping for.

    Thanks in advance.

  7. #47
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    As you requested Ladies and Gentleman.

    ----Original Message Follows----
    From: News
    Subject: White House Approves of Fire Service Flags Half-Staff
    Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:15:15 -0400

    > IAFC MEMBER ALERT
    >
    > Thursday, September 27, 2000, 2:15pm EDT.... We have received
    > confirmation from the White House that we have their permission to keep
    > Fire Station flags at half-staff until October 11, per Chief Buckman's
    > request of all IAFC members earlier this week.
    >
    > Confirmation was received from Anthony Mackery, White House Office of
    > Political Affairs, who stated, "The President only controls those areas
    > that are federal buildings, and of course, fire stations do not fall under
    > federal jurisdiction. Rather, they fall under state, county or local
    > jurisdiction. So if fire stations want to keep their flags at half-mast
    > until the 11th of October, that's certainly fine with the White House."
    >
    > However, to Mackery's point regarding state and local jurisdiction, any
    > members who are still concerned with local policy and protocol may want to
    > consult their local government representatives and act accordingly.
    >
    Thank you for your interest in this issue.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ------
    The preceding is provided courtesy of the
    ICHIEFS Communications Department.
    For more information contact 703/273-0911 or
    e-mail
    Don't forget to check out the ICHIEFS web site at www.ichiefs.org .

  8. #48
    Forum Member Phred1's Avatar
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    THANKS, PWC

    Now we know we're not disregarding Presidential Orders by flying Flag at Half-Staff. That sure helps! It will make a lot of us feel better about doing what we really wanted to do in the first place.

    [ 09-28-2001: Message edited by: Phred ]

  9. #49
    Forum Member MetalMedic's Avatar
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    Thank God (and President Bush) we can put this issue to bed and go on with our lives! Thanks for posting this!
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

  10. #50
    MembersZone Subscriber E229Lt's Avatar
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    The way I see it, if we give each of our fallen 30 days at half staff, we can raise the flag back to the top November 12, 2029.

  11. #51
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    I agree wholeheartedly. Fly it untill they're all accounted for.
    Jim Edge, Paramedic/Firefighter
    Wilmington NC
    jedge168@excite.com
    In Memory and Honor of FDNY, NYPD, and NYC EMS 9/11/01

  12. #52
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    I raised our Sta. flag at 1200hrs per Chief orders to full Staff on Oct 11, 2001. I saluted it in memeory of all my fallen FDNY Brother's and Sister's. I wear my badge with a black band and will continue until all the Brother's and Sister's are brought home or otherwise ordered by my Chief.

    God Bless FDNY and all of the lost Brother's and Sister's. You all are in my thoughts and prayer's and the families.

    Dave
    FTM, PTB, EGH

  13. #53
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    Originally posted by jizumper-5:
    My vote is until all FDNY fire fighters are found or whenever the FDNY raises their flags again...
    I'm 110% Behind this One !!!!

  14. #54
    Forum Member Phred1's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Phred:
    E229Lt ~
    You might have missed this earlier post:

    Can someone IN NYC advise what the Fire Stations, Fire HQ and Academy are doing with their Flags - Half-Staff or Full-Staff?

    Several posters have suggested that they will follow the lead of the FDNY Firefighters and Administration - We need to know just what NYC and FDNY are actually doing.

    Lieutenant ~
    We'd like to know what the FDNY is doing with their Flags. Can you tell us how the Station and Administrative Flags are being displayed?

    And (new question) How will the FDNY Station Flags be flown on Sunday, November 18, 2001, the day of the Memorial Service?

    And helmets off to ALL the FDNY Folks!!
    [/QUOTE
    /s/ Phred1 from Ohio

  15. #55
    MembersZone Subscriber E229Lt's Avatar
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    HALF STAFF

    and to answer the new question:

    HALF STAFF

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