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  1. #1
    Forum Member Phred1's Avatar
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    Default Should US Flags REMAIN at Half-Staff?

    Fellow Firefighters ~ Should we seek permission to continue flying the US Flags at Half-Staff until ALL the FDNY Firefighters are recovered and lain to rest?

    The President ordered all US Flags be flown at Half-Staff until this Saturday. It will be impossible to recover all the Fallen Firefighters, Police and EMS Officers by then.

    I'd like to see all of our Fire, Police, EMS, and Governmental Flags remain at Half-Staff until ALL are recovered and lain to rest; but to do so would require a modification of the President's order.

    Your thoughts are hereby requested; together with suggestions on just how to make our feelings known.

    Some may feel that we need to return the Flags to their rightful place as a symbol to all that The United States will not be subjected to terrorist threats and intimidation. I personally feel that the Flag should Half-Staffed as our tribute to the Fallen.

    May we NEVER Forget!
    Please comment.


  2. #2
    Forum Member MetalMedic's Avatar
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    I would like to see the flag remain at half-staff until our military makes its first strike in retaliation against the dirt bags that are responsible for this. The flag of a country serves as the "Battle Flag" for the nation, and when we do get down to business, it should be flown high as a symbol of the Nation's resolve against its enemies.

    My fear about leaving it at half-staff until every lost firefighter, police officer and EMS worker is found is that this could take months or even years. Between DNA testing and the sad truth that the fires could have caused complete incineration of remains, there may never be a total recovery.

    The Star Bangled Banner must wave high over the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave! While it is at half-staff, it say a lot, but when it is flown at full-staff, it says so much more!!
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

  3. #3
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    My vote is until all FDNY fire fighters are found or whenever the FDNY raises their flags again...
    Keep Safe!

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber ChiefReason's Avatar
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    Phred:
    I had already made the decision a week ago that the flag at our fire station will remain at half staff until every last NYC firefighter is laid to rest. However long it takes is a non-issue. For the rest of the country, fly the flags high and with pride. For the rest of us, it is a fitting gesture that let's our fellow firefighters in New York that we are with them until this mission is completed. Then we will join the rest of our country and raise it to full staff.
    Be safe.

    [ 09-23-2001: Message edited by: Chief Reason ]
    Visit www.iacoj.com
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  5. #5
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    I am torn between the two. I feel they should be at half staff until we find our brothers but on the other hand, they need to be as high as they will go when we start slaughtering people. Flags are supposed to be flown at fll staff in times of war. There is no right answer but we need to show respect for our Country and our military and follow the Presidents recomendation.
    My comments posted here do not reflect the views of my department.

  6. #6
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    Aren't flags supossed to flown at have staff for a month after a ff dies anyways. I agree with chief reason let the rest of the nation fly their flags high, but ours remain at half staff until FDNY's ff's r laid to rest or until FDNY raises their flags.
    "I truly believe that tradition is important to the long-term survival of the fire service."-Lt. Andrew Fredricks, FDNY,9-11-01

  7. #7
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    Personal feelings and opinions about this topic aside, here is a very good web site about the US flag. It includes links to the U.S. Flag Code which is the official code outlining display of the flag.

    USFlag.org

  8. #8
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    My vote is for keeping them downuntil all are found adn the memorial ceremony is held!

    How do we accomplish this?
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  9. #9
    mark440
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    While I agree with everyone on keeping it half-staff until all our Brothers and Sisters are found, I don't think we (on a local level) have the power to make that decision. If I remember correctly (I may be wrong) but the flag, by constitution or law or something states that the flag is only lowered at the death of the President, Congressman, Governor, and Law Enforcement. Maybe we should seek a Presidential pardon and ask for permission for FD's nation-wide to keep the flag lowered until all Brothers and Sisters are found or until attacks. Whichever come first. Maybe we should also seek out to change that law or constitution (if this is really the case) to effect the lowering in the case of an LODD. I would be willing to support such a cause and I'm sure others would be too!

    Stay safe,

    *Mark

    **My opinions only. Don't like them? Don't read them!

    ***FTM-PTB-EGH

    [ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: mark440 ]

  10. #10
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    Mark is right, but I'll be damned if someone is going to tell me how to pay my respects. I want to return my flag to full staff to show the rest of the world that we cannot, and will not be pushed around, but I don't think any news crews are going to show up to film my flag. That said, my flag will remain at half staff until all of our fallen brothers and sisters are accounted for. Regardless of what the law says.
    Take care, stay safe, & stay low!

    Lt.

  11. #11
    Senior Member apatrol's Avatar
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    I am planning on raising ours Monday morning. The memorial service planned for Sunday is for all the emergency workers who lost their lives and as I recall the flags fly half staff until the memorial service.

  12. #12
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    My vote is NO! NO! NO! for the following reasons:

    1. Unfortunatly not all Firefighters, EMS workers, or Law Enforcement officers may be "recovered". That means we keep the flag at helf mast for ever. This alone gets a NO from me.

    2. What about those NON-fire, ems, PD'ers that gave THEIR lives being heroes that we will NEVER know about, those "civilians" carrying wounded down stairwells and evacuating buildings, rushing plane cabins and hijackers, and how about those military folk. Yes, WE lost a lot, but it wasn't JUST "our" loss... so a no for THAT reason.

    3. Speaking of MILITARY... what about those COUNTLESS THOUSANDS of people - those OTHER uniform wearers (read SOLDIERS, SAILORS, AIRMEN, MARINES, and COASTIES) that sacrificed their lives in forgotten battles and even unpopular wars that we - WE - might have the freedoms that we enjoy today. The third and possibly LARGEST no!

    After we are done our mourning, and we will mourn and grieve for quite some time, it will be time to raise our flag once again, and THAT will be all of their tributes... that our flag will wave HIGH!!!

  13. #13
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    My response to this has been my feelings since the tradgedy happened. Fly the Flag HIGH..put a black ribbon on the pole but get that flag high. Show bin Laden we are not going to "bow our heads" to his terror. Yes. I am in mourning for the loss of all public safety workers, but I believe in freedom and the American way i believe that lowering the flags in a time of war is a way of bowing our heads. We shouldnt be bowing our heads we should be staring down our targets and see the fear in their eyes as the first missle strikes thier house or when they wake up and realize a US special op team whether green berets or navy seals are looking over them while they were sleeping and nuetrulized the whole camp. Wave the Flag high and proud.
    god bless nyc the USA and the men and women on their way to far off lands to make sure we can sleep safe tonight

    [ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: John Kennedy ]

  14. #14
    Senior Member firecat1524's Avatar
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    I'm with the raise it crew....time to fly it high and let these animals know we may have been bloodied...but we remain unbowed.

  15. #15
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    What do you think those firefighters would say do in thier honor? I'm not sure, but I'd almost bet that each of them that lost thier life in that attack would be telling all of us to show the terrorists that they didn't die in vain. They didn't die to see that flag lowered, they were fighting those terrorists deeds to the very end. I have a feeling they would tell you to fly it so high bin Laden would see red, white, and blue in Afghanistan. There's a little saying that I dearly love, and I think it's appropriate now, "Lord, teach us to laugh again, but never let us forget we cried". It's time to raise the flag, it's time to recognize the lives of those men/women, not thier deaths. I can't tell any of you what to do, and I wouldn't attempt it, however I believe in keeping the flag lowered you do an injustice to them, and thier committment to this country and that Flag. Raise the flag, raise the memory of those men/women to a position befitting them.

  16. #16
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    Originally posted by 1M89:
    Personal feelings and opinions about this topic aside, here is a very good web site about the US flag. It includes links to the U.S. Flag Code which is the official code outlining display of the flag.

    USFlag.org
    You know, I just read most of that site, and I think that it's pretty cool... I'm from Canada, and i don't even think we have anything like that.....
    Joel

    Lets never forget the events of 9-11

    If you sent us to HELL, WE'D PUT IT OUT!!

    **And of course these are only my opinion and only mine. Don't take it out on anyone else but me.**

  17. #17
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    Greetings,

    Remember, only the President Of The United States Of America can order the American Flag to half-staff. Not Chiefs, Mayors or even Govenors. People forget that and to me, it takes away the meaning of lowering the flag to half staff.

    That said, I think that the flag should rise to the top of the flag pole on the 22nd as the President has ordered. Two reasons for my thoughts: 1). Lets show the world we WILL over come this great tradegy that has struck our nation. Fly the flag high and proud. 2). As with the thoughts of other indivuals who responded under this topic, in our hearts we want to fly the flag at half staff until all of the FDNY brothers and sisters are found. But the reason I say we can't do this, what of the other brothers and sisters who gave their lives in the line of duty? If we kept our flags at half staff for every firefighter killed in the line of duty, our flags would never go back up the pole. An average of 100 U.S. firefighters die every year on the job, that is one every three days.

    Just about all firefighters are PROUD to be American citizens. I believe it would do them more honor by raising that flag back up today. God Bless America..........

  18. #18
    Forum Member BucksEng91's Avatar
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    The flag should be raised and flown proudly. While we still grieve, we do not despair. While we mourn, we are not defeated. While our hearts ache for those that are lost, they also burn with our national will and purpose - to root these dogs out wherever they hide, and as the President said, "Bring them to justice, or bring justice to them." I like choice number two.

    This country is not a country of cowards (much as the Berkeley, CA city manager would like it to be so). Fly the flag proudly. Hold it high. We are a nation at war. I think it was Senator McCain who said, "God have mercy on our enemies, because we won't."

    Amen, Senator.
    "Let's roll." - Todd Beamer, one of a group of American soldiers who handed the terrorists their first defeat.

    Joe Black

    The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone (but you can borrow them )and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated (but then again, they just may not be thinking clearly).

  19. #19
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    Mark is right, but I'll be damned if someone is going to tell me how to pay my respects. I want to return my flag to full staff to show the rest of the world that we cannot, and will not be pushed around, but I don't think any news crews are going to show up to film my flag. That said, my flag will remain at half staff until all of our fallen brothers and sisters are accounted for. Regardless of what the law says.
    Smokeeater I don't think no one is trying to tell you how to grieve by telling you raise the colors back to fulll staff. But really, do we have to lower ourselves to a "criminals" level to do so. And yes there are laws saying howthe "Old Glory" is to be displayed. Just follow the link given by 1M89 earlier in this thread and you will see what I am saying is true.

    I was also torn between raising the flag and leaving it down for those still missing until I talked to my uncle that is a Nam Vet. He put it this way, " I know it sounds cold but those guys were just doing the same job you do every day. But do you consider yourself a hero? Find someway to grieve other than showing your enemy that you have been beatin." He said this is what they were told when someone asked why the flag was not at half mast for the soldiers who died. I saw on the local news last night a dept here went and and put FDNY on the front of all their units. But as their cheif said during the interveiw that is their way of showing their support and grief.
    My appoliges if I offended anyone with these veiws but not for my opinions.I say let's get "OLD GLORY" back up where she blongs and show thes sorry son's of dog dirt slime that although we might have been sucker punched, Miss America is in NO WAY DOWN FOR THE COUNT!!!

  20. #20
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    The loss of our brothers and sisters in FDNY is felt by us all.Out of our respect and support, I feel we should follow FDNY's lead. When the flags are flying high over NY, other FD's should also raise theirs. Its is true that the traidition of lowering flags to 1/2 mast was intended for people of high office, but over the years has been loosly applied to show respect for many fallen. This was an horrific event, which throughout our FDNY brothers and sisters have displayed great courage. Lets continue to show our support. The department I work for has not displayed the flag on our units in the past, but that changed on 9/11/01. All our units now fly our flag with pride, and we will continue to do so. God Bless America

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