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    Default No American Flags on Berkeley F.D. Apparatus!?

    Living the dream...

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    I think that it is a disgrace that the City of Berkley will not fly the American Flag. Shame on that city and thoughs that listen to them! You should be proud of that flag and for what it stands for!

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    I'm sorry but if you ask me this is pittyful,you live in this country than you should have to except and repect the flag of this country. If you wanT to live here you will repect things like that, you don't like it, leave and go somewhere that flies the flag you like, and also while i'm on this topic i think it is rather poor and distasteful that there are actually fire fighters in this world that are against flying flags on apparatus such as the incident in miami-dade. It's about time this country stops letting other religions, creeds and race's. decide how our country is to be run. you move to usa live by usa's language and rules.
    don't get me wrong i have no problem with any other race or anything but stuff like this really bothers me.
    we don't go to other country's or other churchs and tell them when the can and can't fly their flag.
    just my two cents.

    ALSO KEEP THE FAMLIES OF THE FALLEN NEW YORK EMERGENCY SERVICE WORKERS IN YOUR THOUGHTS

    [ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: LT-5-11-1 ]

    [ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: LT-5-11-1 ]

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    As I understand this particular incident, the "administration" ordered the removal because of a "planned" anti-war rally? For safety considerations? Just whose safety is in jeopardy - the firefighters with all those beautiful tools on board or the idiots expected to attempt to remove or otherwise defame the flag? It may be that the resulting injuries inflicted on any such protester(s) would send a seriously ugly message but it would definitely be a while before something like it happened again thats for sure!

    Good ol' Berkley again decides to refuse to support the righteous response to those who would deny us freedom. Let's close that so called institute of higher learning down and hang the faculty involved! Teaching our college students this dribble aught to be against the law and everyone involved aught to be sent to live in Afganistan or where ever the terrorists are found - before military action on the part of our government.... you know the government of the people for the people... since they obviously don't like the way we do things!

    I find them offensive - so maybe the Fire Dept. should refrain from emergency response on the campus? Kinda like our "African-American" brothers in Miami-Dade? Sorry but cannot begin to refrain from taking a pot shot at idiocy.

    In my book the word "American" is never hyphenated and when I see this it makes me want to tell the person who writes or speaks that drivel to kiss my entire rear end!

    And may God have pity on the next d*#n fool idiot who uses the term "politically correct" in my presence because they will find something very ugly in their face in extremely short order!


    [ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: FirescueBob ]
    Lets watch out for each other because no one else will! Be safe and sane! Opinions Expressed are Mine alone and do not reflect on any dept or organization to which I may belong.

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    They're worried about an anti-war demonstration turning violent?

    Oh, that phrase is f*cked up on so many levels...
    IACOJ Canine Officer
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    And that's all I have to say about that!!

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    I wonder if they would have the same anti-flag sentiment if Berkeley was a terrorist target on 11 September 2001?

    The same flag that the Firefighters of Berkeley were told to remove fron their rigs is the same flag that gives the protesters their first amendment rights to protest in the first place...ironic, isn't it?
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Gee and to think, the congresswoman from the PRB (peoples republic of berkley), one Barbara Lee, is the only one to vote against military action to bring the terrorists that planned and paid for the hijackings to justice.

    420 - 1
    It's only my opinion. I do not speak for any group or organization I belong to or associate with or people I know - especially my employer. If you like it, we can share it, you don't have to give me credit. If you don't, we are allowed to disagree too (but be ready to be challenged, you may be on to something I'm not). That's what makes America great!

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    Our main streets are lined with 160 american flags that have been flying proud for the last week, just as they do on the 4th, flag day etc... And all of our apparatus have flags, police cars ye pyou guessed it flags flying, dpw trucks both local and state, flags again! If anybody were to question them I would be dumbfounded, and if it came from our firehouse we have serious grounds for a blanket party. We ought to strap these idiots *****e$ to the first bombs we send abroad. They don't deserve to work under the red white and blue.

    God bless you brothers (and sisters), and horay for old glory too!


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    Is the Mayor of Berkley a Pakiestienian ??? He must be....The Flag flies proudly on the equipment at my station as at should on every piece in the nation....

    I also herd mention of the Philadelphia Fire Commissioner say NO to Black Bunting on PFD Stations....Is this true ???? I would certianly hope not

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    The mayor of Berserkeley is not the problem, she and the firefighters are ****ed off about this too, it's the fire chief's decision!
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    So get us the Berkley Fire/public safties phone number and fax.A little MD treatment from us caring individuals should clear up this cloudy area for them.PTB-FTM. T.C.

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    I'm not sorry, if you don't like this country or what it stands for get the f**k out. Blacks find the american flag offensive too bad. Chinese too bad. Russian too bad. I'm by no means racist I just hate *******s. No body forces you to live here, as a matter of fact the only three things you are required to do in this country is be born, pay taxes and die. How many of our fathers and grandfathers, brothers and mothers have died defending this freedom that these ingrates that for granite. Go to Afghan and live with them, and when we're bombing the hell out of them you'll be waving the american flag please don't hurt my ungratful ***. Yeah remember that the next time you wake up to a cup of coffee that so many other countries would love to have that luxury. Oh that's right you can walk down an american street in saftey because of the sacrifices made before you and not have to worry about a constant battle ground.
    the truth never hides for long

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    OK, if they're taking the American flag down to keep the peace, that means that the terorrists suceeded. Seeing how their goal was to make the American people cower and not support their government, they are the only city in the country to do so... While the rest of the country is probably more patriotic now then its been since probably the early 60s, they are going to cower under the terms that they want to prevent violent Anti-War protests, its all good for them when they have the right to protest all they want, but they got probably 280+ million Americans looking down on them and shunning them for their cowardness...

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    So get us the Berkley Fire/public safties phone number and fax.

    Well just duh, why didn't I think of that...

    Here you go!

    Berkely CA Fire Dept.
    Fire Chief Reginald Garcia
    510-981-3473
    fire@berkeley.ca.us
    It's only my opinion. I do not speak for any group or organization I belong to or associate with or people I know - especially my employer. If you like it, we can share it, you don't have to give me credit. If you don't, we are allowed to disagree too (but be ready to be challenged, you may be on to something I'm not). That's what makes America great!

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    To hell with the protestors! Reading that story angers me to no end. I have lost relatives in every war that this country has fought! While some of those anti-america bastards were crying about vietnam, my father volunteered for the United States Marines! Give me a break! If you can put up with having thousands of you fellow countrymen killed, then you deserve to be attacked by terrorists. But then again what can one expect from a city that wanted to legalize "hard" drugs! If the traitors (forgive spelling) want to attack a fire apparatus for displaying the flag, use the deluge on them (preferred use is very high pressure). I hate to say it but prehaps McCarthy was right. Get these people out of here. Remember that wishing for peace is the surest way to encourage an agressor!
    Firefighter/NREMT-B/Hazmat Tech
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    Correction to mongo's email address for the Bezerkely Fire Department:

    fire@ci.berkeley.ca.us

    And here's the mayor, while I'm at it:

    dean@ci.berkeley.ca.us

    And here's a copy of the email I sent to the mayor, including the full text of the email I sent to the BFD:

    ------------------------------------

    Mayor Dean:

    This is a copy of an email I sent to the Chief of the Berkeley Fire
    Department. You need to now step up and show some courage - either reverse this
    coward's decision or relieve him from duty and replace him with someone who
    respects and honors the rule of law, and honors the memory of those lost in
    the terrorist murders.

    EMAIL TO CHIEF:

    Berkely FD Chief of Department -

    As a firefighter, I'm disgusted by your craven cowardice. You've given in
    to the very fear that the terrorists wished to sow among us. You're notable
    as the ONLY department in the country to cower before this threat. Are you
    proud? You should be both ashamed and out of a job.

    The correct response should be to fly the flag proudly and ARREST anyone who
    attempts to cause bodily or property harm to any employee or apparatus of
    your department, and prosecute them vigorously, not to run and hide like
    rats.

    Are you SURE you're a firefighter? I don't know, maybe you're a political
    appointment. That would certainly explain it. If you are a firefighter -
    stop calling yourself that. You don't deserve to be identified by the same
    title, with all the respect it carries, as our fallen brothers in New York.
    "Let's roll." - Todd Beamer, one of a group of American soldiers who handed the terrorists their first defeat.

    Joe Black

    The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone (but you can borrow them )and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated (but then again, they just may not be thinking clearly).

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    Just for the heck of it, here's the city council email addresses, too:

    maio@ci.berkeley.ca.us
    breland@ci.berkeley.ca.us
    shirek@ci.berkeley.ca.us
    spring@ci.berkeley.ca.us
    mhawley@ci.berkeley.ca.us
    olds@ci.berkeley.ca.us
    worthington@ci.berkeley.ca.us
    armstrong@ci.berkeley.ca.us

    Bury 'em!!
    "Let's roll." - Todd Beamer, one of a group of American soldiers who handed the terrorists their first defeat.

    Joe Black

    The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone (but you can borrow them )and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated (but then again, they just may not be thinking clearly).

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    The American Flag is a symbol that stand for our nation and those brave souls that gave their lives in her service. Not flying the colors due to concerns for "riots turning violent" is a disrespectful excuse. I see our colors and I think of every man and woman who is a hero. I think of those who died and made all of us even prouder to serve our country. If I worked at that department, I'd quit and go elsewhere.

    Bless our fallen Brothers and Sisters
    Bless all of our Fallen Brothers and Sisters. You will not be forgotten

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    I just recieved this email from a "Tamlyn Bright", an assistant to the mayor of Bezerkely:

    "Dear Mr. Black:

    Thank you so much for your honesty. Of hundreds of communications that have
    come to us so far, only one identified primarily with our Chief's concerns
    for the safety of his personnel. Most felt that the personnel could manage
    anything that might come up. We have even heard from student peace
    demonstrators who objected to the characterization that they would
    disrespect the flag or our firefighters. This overwhelming wave of public
    unity and support has persuaded a much speedier policy change on the flag
    issue than might otherwise have been the case. This morning we have been
    informed that the Chief and the Manager have purchased 3 x 5 American Flags
    for use on all firetrucks and any other city vehicles.

    Tamlyn Schafer-Bright
    Executive Assistant to Mayor Dean
    2180 Milvia Street
    Berkeley, CA 94704
    510-981-7100
    510-981-7199 (fax)"

    What do you think, guys? Too little, too late? I still think that coward of a chief should be asked to resign.
    "Let's roll." - Todd Beamer, one of a group of American soldiers who handed the terrorists their first defeat.

    Joe Black

    The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone (but you can borrow them )and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated (but then again, they just may not be thinking clearly).

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    Here's my reply to Tamlyn:

    "Thank you, Tamlyn. I'll relay this news to my colleagues via a message board set up to allow firefighters to discuss issues around the terrorist attacks.

    The decision seemed not only dishonorable and craven, but misguided - fear of violence at "peace" rallies? Something is wrong here in the logic alone. I'd hate to think that it was simply another example of posturing by
    our beloved "progressive" community on the left coast.

    I hope that in the future, your city (noted for its historic support for self-proclaimed "free thinkers") will act with the courage, honor, and dignity we've seen displayed by the Mayor Giuliani of New York City."

    In other words, f*ck you and your socialist city, Tamlyn.

    Here's another question - what is local 1227's stance on the issue. I'm sure they were ****ed off. Anyone have any information?
    "Let's roll." - Todd Beamer, one of a group of American soldiers who handed the terrorists their first defeat.

    Joe Black

    The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone (but you can borrow them )and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated (but then again, they just may not be thinking clearly).

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    Ok, my two cents worth! I am sure to be criticized about this but,.... here we go.

    While I believe that they should be flying the flag on their rigs, I think that the chief is taking some undue heat over this. After I read all of the posts, I sort of put myself in his situation. I am a fireground line officer. Sometimes we as officers have to make decisions based on the safety of our guys. If the current environment in Berkeley is one of tension and potential danger for his troops, then I too may have made the decision. I would hate to add another guy to the ever growing list of LODD's this year alone as a result of this attack. I also saw where the mayor is taking heat over this. She wants the flags BACK ON the trucks but does not have the authority to over ride the Chiefs decision. The only one that can is the City Manager.

    I hope that everyone who is a line officer can see beyond this and understand that this does not go against patriotism, but rather safety for our Brothers who are already in an unsafe environment.

    Bash me if you will but who knows what decision YOU would have made as the Chief of Berkeley.

    Thanks for listening!

    Mike

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    Mike -

    You want to know what decision I would have made? I would have bought BIGGER flags, trusting not only that my guys could handle any protest incidents, but also that the police could be counted on to arrest and prosecute anyone who would dare attack a firefighter or fire apparatus. Finally, I would trust that American citizens, no matter what their political views, would not resort to violence against public safety workers in order to demonstrate their commitment to PEACE.

    This was a politically motivated decision, and it just exploded in the chief's face, and the City Manager's face. The best thing that could happen at this point (wishful thinking) is that both of these craven cowards would lose their jobs.
    "Let's roll." - Todd Beamer, one of a group of American soldiers who handed the terrorists their first defeat.

    Joe Black

    The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone (but you can borrow them )and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated (but then again, they just may not be thinking clearly).

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    Coward is the correct description for these non-leaders Bucks. Because anti-establishment protesters MIGHT get upset they refuse to show support for the USA? What message does this send the firefighters who work for them? We got your back unless it MIGHT upset someone. The most bizarre thing is why supposedly "peace loving" anti war demonstrators would attack the symbol of the country that gives them the RIGHT to protest in the first place?

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    The Chief's email is no good need another one, so I can give him or her a piece of my mind. That scumbag. And he/she calls them a leader. I wouldn't follow them anywhere and the members of the department as well as union officials should step in and put there foot down. This is bull----!

    [ 09-21-2001: Message edited by: DJK109 ]

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