1. #1
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    Default FDNY staffing question

    At any given time, how many Brothers are on duty across the City? Anybody help me out?

    Thanks!

    Stay safe,

    *Mark
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    Well good question Mark.209 engines and 142 ladders with 5 rescues 1 squad 1 haz mat plus support units(some manned by personnel from other companies or units I would say given the 4 per engine(sometimes 5)and 6 per ladder with 6 per rescue gives us a guesstamite of 1045 engine company members.852 truck company members.30 rescue company members.for a total of 1927.Now you may want to add support and Marine companies if youd like but that is a rough estimate of those on duty in the main land based companies.Now not all companies are fully manned so that is why it is a guess.Hope this helps.

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    Thanks for the guesstamite! Now with my measly math; roughly 2000 firefighters with your addition. The FDNY is nearly 13,000 firefighters (and Officers and Chiefs and other personel)strong. That means that only 1/6 of the FDNY is protecting the City. How many work office jobs and educational roles? If I am asking too much, holla at me and I'll knock it off. THANKS!

    Stay safe,

    *Mark
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    FDNY has more than one squad....1,18,41,61,252,270,288...more?
    And Im sure FDNY runs heavier than 4 on an engine...Dispatch sends a 10-14 engine if someone goes undermanned.....Eng229LT, any insight here?
    My opinions only.

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    Just curious, where were S-61 and S-270 during the WTC operations? I heard about every squad on scene except them. I don't believe they lost any brothers while the ranks of the other squads were hurt bad. Any ideas? Plus, I always thought the Rescues rtan with more than 6, like 7 or 8. Is this true? I know they divide into 2 or 3 man teams once they get to work. Can anyone explain a little more on this?

    And your right Mory, those are all of the squads. Also, can anyone explain the significance of Squad 1? I thought they held a somewhat different status than the other squads. Wow, more questions. Any answers would be great!

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    • 209 Engine Companies(including the 7 squads)
      143 Ladder Companies
      5 Rescue Companies
      1 Hazardous Materials Company
      9 Division Chiefs
      51 Battalion Chiefs(including Safety Battalion and SOC Battalion)

    There are other special units and chiefs that ride on every tour, but this for the most part is the setup.

    All 7 Squad Companies and 61 of the engine Companies ride with an officer and 5 firefighters. All other engine companies will ride with a minimum of an officer and 4 firefighters(sometimes 5 -sick time , vacations,etc.).

    All 143 Ladder Companies will ride with an officer and 5 firefighters.

    All 5 Rescue Companies will ride with an officer and 5 firefighters.

    Hazardous Materials Co. 1 will ride with an officer and 7 firefighters.

    Each Division Chief and Battalion Chief has an Aide.

    Squad Co. 1 is in Brooklyn. It started out in 1977 at a disbanded Engine 269's quarters. Back in the 60's and early 70's, FDNY ran about 9 squads, but they were for the most part manpower squads. They were eventually all disbanded. Squad 1 was the only squad for a while until Engine Co. 41 was made into a squad. It was called an enhanced engine(for political reasons) until 1998 when all the squads were designated.

    All squads have a full compliment of ladder company tools and some basic rescue company tools. Each member is given 2 assignments at the beginning of the shift-1 as an engine company and 1 as a ladder company. They are used at the disretion of the incident commander.

    Hope this helps and if I left anything out, I apologize.
    Kevin M. Fitzhenry
    Captain, Rescue Company 1
    City of Bayonne (NJ) Fire Department

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    Fitz, thanks for the insight! They are great answers and help. I am going to sit down with my calculator and figure it out. I'll be back with more questions as they come about.
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    Ok! According to my math (someone correct me if I am wrong please);
    141 Engines with 5 equals 705
    68 Engines (Squads too) with 6 equals 408
    209 Engines combined equal 1113 Brothers
    143 Ladders with 6 equals 858
    5 Rescues with 6 equals 30
    1 Haz-Mat unit with 8 equals 8
    9 Division Chief's plus aides is 18
    51 Battalion Chief's plus aides is 102
    1113+858+30+8+18+102=2129 School did something for me!
    That is still 1/6 of the FDNY. Does FDNY work 24 on 96 off? Just wondering...

    Thanks!

    *Mark
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    The vast majority of career departments in New England, New York, and at least parts of Pennsylvania and Maryland work 4-Platoon systems, or about 42 hours per week. New York State indeed mandates a 40 hour work week for career municipal firefighters.

    Traditionally 4on/4off systems have been standard -- usually 2 10 hour days, 2 14 hour nights, followed by 4 hours off. I believe FDNY works a variant of that schedule. Over the last few years, more and more departments have started to switch to 24on/72hour off schedules.

    Now, even with a "4-platoon" system, you need to multiply your on-duty minimum staffing by 5 to give you enough personnel to cover all shifts without tremendous amounts of overtime. 4 times 5 firefighters & officers per engine isn't sufficient, because you always have personnel out on vacation, sick time, etc. No, the "Number of Platoons + 1" isn't a scientific method, but it does give a good, quick estimate of the overall size of a department.

    In a large department like FDNY having an even larger administration/dispatch/public relations/investigation/prevention/etc wouldn't be uncalled for.

    Additionally, although I don't know this to be true about FDNY, some fire departments carry those permenantly disabled on the roster collecting their regular pay until they qualify for the pension. For example, in Worcester there are five "ghost" positions on the fire budget -- which is the salary being paid to the widows of the Worcester 6. (One was single with no kids).

    So it's not hard to believe that a large fire department operating on 4 platoons would need six times the minimum staffing to cover all positions plus administration.
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    Thanks Dalmation!

    Stay safe,

    *Mark
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    FDNY works a 25 Group, 2 Platoon System Chart. 9 hour days (9am-6pm or "9x6" in FDNY lingo) and 15 hour nights (6x9) are worked. Don't quote me on the following, but the schedule is something like this:
    3 day tours, off 24 hours
    3 night tours, off 72 hours
    4 day tours, off 48 hours
    3 night tours, off 96 hours

    **Like I said, SOMETHING like that!** If I have it wrong, which I probably do, please forgive me. Most FDNY members work out MXT's (Mutual Exchange of Tour) with other members, and work 24 or 36 straight so that they dont have to keep driving in and out of the city- If you live out on Long Island, and work lets say, in Manhattan, that could mean a 1.5 hour commute! Or, if you live up in the mountains...And work in Brooklyn....again, a nightmare commute!!

    During the first few weeks following the crisis, FDNY implemented an emergency schedule- 24 on, 24 off. A few weeks later, 24 on, 48 off was used. The end of the first week of October, I believe, they went back to their normal schedule.
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    Great thread!!!!
    So some questions from me now!
    Does the NYFD have minimum manning on their appliances?
    That is " must have a certain amount of crew on the truck before you turn out"
    And for me here in Sydney, Australia...
    can someone explain the roles /functions of you companies,engines trucks squads...etc.....
    Or better still send me a link to where I can get the info.
    Or mail me off list.
    Any reply will be greatly appreciated
    Andy
    Andy
    www.blacktownfirerescue.org

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    Hack, this link should give you some good info
    http://www.emergency-world.com/eh/terms.htm
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    o.k. lets start with the chart. we have a 25 man group chart. every member is assigned a number (1 to 25). we work two day tours, 9am to 6pm off 48 hours then we work two night tours, 6pm to 9am off 72 hours back to days.
    Staffing
    most engines 4men and one officer
    some engines 5men and one officer
    trucks 5 men one officer
    squads (j.v. lol)one officer and five short young guys.
    haz-mat one officer and 7 men
    RESCUE one officer and five guys who think they are officers(lol).

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    can someone explain the roles /functions of you companies,engines trucks squads...etc.....

    Engines: Secure water supply & put wet stuff on red stuff.

    Trucks: Force entry, vent, & search the building

    Rescues: Trained & equipped for difficult & unusual rescues; generally assist with search functions at fires.

    Squads: In New York City, these are Engine Companies with extra training and tools so they can perform either Engine or Truck work, and much of the same training as Rescue companies so they can assist them. Squads operate as an Engine in their first-due area, but are relieved of normal fire-inspection duties to give more time to training. They can be assigned either Engine or Truck work at a fire as needed.

    One note, "Squad" in the U.S. is a term that varies dramatically from one area to another. Some areas, Squads are simply ambulances; sometimes they're Heavy Rescues. Squads in FDNY are Engines plus a little. In my company, a "Squad" is a training meeting.
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    Here in Youngstown, our squad is a heavy rescue. It used to be more of a manpower truck, as they are in the Cleveland-area. I have gotten in to some heated debates as to why Youngstown's Squad 33 is a squad and not Res33cue. Ok, to be honest, I have no idea...hahah.

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    When FDNY works the night tour, are they allowed to sleep? If not, what do they do all night and does this affect your "normal" sleep pattern?

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    Yes they are allowed to sleep(last time I checked) and all my info has come fromOperations Manual for the FDNY.It is kinda dated but a good reference(dated by 3 years)engine 41 in it is called an enhanced engine.Plus in FDNY the rescues are cross trained in specops.Rescue 3 is the building collapse unit,1,2,4and 5 are all scuba trained.This is one reason why they are having troublew filling the openings in the units.There is a lot of special training to be in a rescue company.If I remember correctly,rescue guys in New York are hand picked.

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    I don't know whats happening with the other rescues but we are not having a hard time filling our spots.

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