Closed Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 Last
  1. #1
    Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Posts
    86

    Default More stupid FF tricks...

    NYC, PA Fire Companies in Flag Flap

    October 26, 2001 6:01 pm

    NEW YORK (AP) -- A New York City fire company wants to reclaim an American flag plucked from the wreckage of the World Trade Center by a Pennsylvania volunteer firefighter during the search-and-rescue effort.

    The company's commanding officer had sharp words for the Bethlehem Township Volunteer Fire Co., which sent 15 members to New York the day of the Sept. 11 terrorist attack.

    One of the volunteers spotted the tattered, burned flag in the rubble and took it back to Pennsylvania, intending to preserve it at the Bethlehem Township fire house.

    "We had attached flags to the bumper (of a fire truck) and we noticed one was missing," said Capt. Kevin Loughran of New York's Engine Company No. 3. "I was devastated and couldn't believe someone would do that."

    He added that Bethlehem Township firefighters never called Engine Company No. 3 after finding the flag.

    "You would think they would have called us to see how we're doing," Loughran told Friday editions of The Morning Call of Allentown.

    Bethlehem Township Fire Chief Robert Norder is baffled by the criticism, saying his firefighters simply wanted to prevent an important symbol from being destroyed and that he has been working with the New York fire commissioner's office for the last several weeks on plans to return the flag.

    "We're all supposed to be working together. We shouldn't be trying to find fault with anybody at a time like this," he said.

    The flag had been buried in rubble near a damaged fire truck, Norder said. Although volunteer firefighter Matt Zimpfer originally wanted to keep the flag at the Bethlehem Township station, Norder said he quickly nixed that idea.

    "(Zimpfer) did the right thing by picking it up, because it would've been destroyed. But we had no intention of ever keeping the flag," Norder said. "It's unfortunate that a few of their firefighters are talking out of turn."

    He added: "Our reputation in our local area is getting destroyed."

    The Bethlehem Township volunteers went to ground zero on Sept. 11 to help with the massive search-and-rescue effort. Firefighters retrieved a body and a firefighter in critical condition while the volunteers were there, according to Norder. The volunteers returned to Bethlehem Township the following evening.

    The New York fire department lost 343 firefighters after the attack on the twin towers, including five members of Engine Company No. 3.

    Said Loughran: "We don't need a shrine. We would just like to get our flag back."

    (Copyright 2001 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
    http://1010wins.com/topstories/Story...957008410_html

  2. #2
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    The correct thing, the right thing, the just thing to do would have been to give the tattered remains of the flag to the firefighters of FDNY Engine 3.

    It takes weeks and discussions with the FDNY's Commissioner to return a flag? Sounds like bull**** to me!

    Chief Norder is right...their reputation is getting destroyed..by their own members! This wasn't a prize of war..it was descration of our flag and sacred ground!

    [ 10-29-2001: Message edited by: Captain Gonzo ]
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  3. #3
    Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    WAKE COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA
    Posts
    49

    Default

    NO!!! THE RIGHT THING TO DO AT THE TIME IS LEAVE THE FLAG WHERE IT WAS AT AND FIND A FDNY GUY TO PICK IT OUT OF THE RUBLE. IT SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN TOUCHED. AS FAR AS TRYING TO PRESERVE IT…… THAT SOUNDS LIKE A LOAD OF B.S. IM SURE THEY WANTED A SOUVENIR FROM THE DISASTER TO SHOW OFF THE NEXT TIME THE STATION HAD A CALL TO ONE UP THEIR FELLOW VOLLIES. NOW YOU CAN CORRECT THIS MATTER BY DRIVING YOUR SORRY *** TO NEW YORK AND PRESENT THE RIGHTFUL OWNERS THEIR FLAG AND HOPE THEY POUND YOUR *** INTO THE GROUND. WHAT MADE YOU EVEN THINK YOU COULD PRESERVE IT AT YOUR VOLLIE STATION ANYWAY???? DO THE RIGHT THING GET IN YOUR LITTLE TRUCK WITH YOUR LITTLE VOLLIE LIGHT AND DRIVE. AND IF YOU DID NOT INTEND ON KEEPING IT WHY ISNT IT IN NEW YORK???
    YES I AM A PROFESSIONAL FIRE FIGHTER AND YES I AM IN THE UNION

  4. #4
    Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Spring, TX
    Posts
    29

    Default

    I 220% AGREE WITH FIREMONKEY70! I am have been a vollie for about 5 years now, and I find it pretty sad. For all intents and purposes, that flag is STOLEN PROPERTY! Just because it was in rubble, not attached to anything, doesn't give ANYONE the right to take it...did you buy it? Was it personally given to you?? Would you like someone coming up to your car after an accident and taking your cd player? or lightbar? or whatever else is in or around your property????
    FFJBARRIE<br />MY BROTHERS CALL ME "BOOBARRIE"

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber
    sconfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Summerville, SC
    Posts
    836

    Default

    ----------------------
    Bethlehem Township Fire Chief Robert Norder is baffled by the criticism, saying his firefighters simply wanted to prevent an important symbol from being destroyed and that he has been working with the New York fire commissioner's office for the last several weeks on plans to return the flag.
    ----------------------

    It took seconds for our brothers to be killed...

    It took seconds for your sorry ***** to take the flag...

    but it takes weeks to work out a way to return it...

    Coming to the memorial service may not be in your best interest...

    [ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: sconfire ]

  6. #6
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    No. Scituate RI
    Posts
    10

    Default

    That S.O.B. should get his *** kicked what a disgrace

  7. #7
    Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Philadelphia, Pa.
    Posts
    31

    Default

    EVERYONE!!! LET THE BETHLEHEM TOWNSHIP VFC KNOW JUST WHAT YOU THINK OF THEM!!! HERE'S HOW:
    www.btvfc.org

    There are telephone numbers listed, as well as a "contact us" link, and a guestbook!! Take a few moments, and let the loosers know just how low they are!!
    FTM-PTB-EGH-RFB

  8. #8
    Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    WAKE COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA
    Posts
    49

    Default

    Yeah they got a real nice site there but I didn’t see any pictures of them looting the world trade center are they going to add those soon???? E-MAIL SENT
    YES I AM A PROFESSIONAL FIRE FIGHTER AND YES I AM IN THE UNION

  9. #9
    Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Posts
    86

    Default

    If they have the balls to show up for the memorial service, anyone wearing this patch:

    ...should probably expect to be asked a few questions and/or get some constructive criticism from the firefighting community.

    [ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: NozzleHog ]

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    hctrouble25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    NJ, USA
    Posts
    356

    Default

    Thanks for the patch..I agree...if this guy had any brains at all he would have found a FDNY member and said "hey there is a flag over there that is buried in some rubble, I didn't want to touch it...but I would like to help you get it out so that your company can keep it." How hard is that? These guys simply did not use their brains, they thought they were getting a souvenir of some kind, but instead they got busted! Their Chief should just admit there was a wrong doing, and say that "this is one member of our department, not the entire department." Especially since he seems so concerned about their reputation..which by the way has been flushed right down the sh*tter!
    Never forget those who went before and sacrified to make us better and stronger as a fire service and a nation. 09-11-01 forever etched in time and our memories. God Speed Boys!

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    PAVolunteer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Dauphin County, PA
    Posts
    1,139

    Default

    They were absolutely wrong in what they did. They F'd up, now they're giving the flag back, as they should. Most fire departments have stupid guys, and this time they did something really stupid. Relax w/ the pounding of somebody's *** and do they have the balls to show up at the memorial service. We're all in this together, just some of us aren't as smart as the others.

    Stay Safe

  12. #12
    Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Posts
    86

    Default

    Originally posted by PA Volunteer:
    Relax w/ the pounding of somebody's *** and do they have the balls to show up at the memorial service. We're all in this together, just some of us aren't as smart as the others.
    1. I don't think anyone's seriously suggesting "the pounding of somebody's ***" as you put it, but do you really think they should be let off the hook by simply returning the flag? I think at least an admission that it was wrong to take the flag in the first place and an apology to the members of Engine Co. 3 are in order.

    2. This isn't an issue of intelligence or the lack thereof but rather an issue of honesty and integrity.

    [ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: NozzleHog ]

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    apatrol's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    165

    Default

    I would suggest this thread be closed...not only is it not constructive but it is pointless....there are thousands of things we all wish we could change we cant lets learn, train, and protect those who trust us to do so with out all this fighting

  14. #14
    Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    WAKE COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA
    Posts
    49

    Default

    I RECOMEND THAT IT STAYS OPEN. HEY WE ARE LEARNING. WE ARE LEARNING THAT YOU CAN CHANGE THINGS BY PUTTING PRESSURE ON CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS AND HOLDING THEM ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS. AND THE MORAL OF THIS STORY IS DONT FRIGGIN LOOT FROM A DISASTER SCENE.
    YES I AM A PROFESSIONAL FIRE FIGHTER AND YES I AM IN THE UNION

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    PAVolunteer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Dauphin County, PA
    Posts
    1,139

    Default

    Originally posted by firemonkey70:
    NOW YOU CAN CORRECT THIS MATTER BY DRIVING YOUR SORRY *** TO NEW YORK AND PRESENT THE RIGHTFUL OWNERS THEIR FLAG AND HOPE THEY POUND YOUR *** INTO THE GROUND.
    Nozzle Hog - absolutely agree w/ your first point, as for the second one, I partially agree. Most intelligent people would know that wasn't the right thing to do.

    Stay Safe

  16. #16
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    City of Bethlehem Fire Dept.
    Posts
    1

    Default

    I have a few things to say.
    First, Mr Norder was one of the people who went to NY and took the flag, he is also the Fire Chief. (He's making it look like one person took this flag). Being from a community near Bethlehem Twp, i can tell you this. This is not the first article. All the articles (and editorials) relating to this have documented the lies that Norder told. (http://www.pennlive.com/expresstimes or http://www.mcall.com/ these are the 2 newpapers)
    Second, Don't email bethlehem twp fire! Its been done. they just delete the ones they do not like. They run their own web site. Instead try this: http://www.bethlehemtwp.com/enter.html
    Click CONTACT
    Click COMMISSIONERS
    Let THEM know how you feel! They own the fire dept.
    Third.
    They are a marked Department. We in the fire service know what a rat looks like, smells like and acts like but the public sees us all as one. So be careful how you handle things.
    Finally, I agree with apatrol, don't dwell on it. Its not worth it. Concentrate on making yourself a better person so you don't make the same mistakes. Fight for the Fire Service, Make The fire service finally HEARD! Don't let our brothers die in vain!!

  17. #17
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Daytona Beach, FL, US
    Posts
    187

    Default

    Thanks for posting that site. Email sent, I feel MUCH better having let them know how I feel. Maybe they will show up at the service and at least have the morals to give back what they took.
    Bless all of our Fallen Brothers and Sisters. You will not be forgotten

  18. #18
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    'bedrock' LI, NY
    Posts
    242

    Default

    Some of you (you'ins for the uneducated out there) need to chill the *** out a second!

    1st off - did YOU see this ff pick up an American flag out of the rubble? Literally see it with your own eyes? did you see him swipe it off the ground and say some derogitory term? did you see him rip it off the firetruck? (if so, why didn't you kick his punk *****) did you see him get on his knees, pick it up like like a newborn, and give it the necessary attention of picking up our country's flag OFF THE GROUND?

    Technically (and i hate people who do this) the flag should have been detroyed. separating the blue field from the stripes and then burned. Would I have done that? Hell no. But again, I didn't see this incident take place.

    Go easy on this. Everbody seems to think that this guy ripped a flag off firetruck. did he? " well he might as well have " no stupid, I said did he!?!?!?!?!

    there was so much going on in the first few weeks there, what is this guy supposed to be stopping ff's and saying, 'um excuse me, did this come off your rig?'

    now that it has been determined whose flag it TRUELY is, i believe that any person w/ half a brain in that department will see to it that that company gets it's flag back.

    putting up the patch from the department in PA? how classless. if I see one of these guys on 11/18 in nyc, i'd say 'thanks for digging, and trying to find one of my exchiefs, and two fellow members of my service'. if a conversation ensues, hey i'll ask as to what happened. if they tell me, great, if not, oh well, I'll get over it.

    [ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: toneloc177 ]

    [ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: toneloc177 ]
    May God bless all the people and families who have lost
    their lives on 9-11-01, to those also lost on Flight 587, and to the rescuers who responded to both.

    "I'm not saying it's right, i'm just saying (the way it is)."

    FDNY-EMS - Still New York's Best!

    e-mail always accepted @
    toneloc177@firehousemail.com

  19. #19
    Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    WAKE COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA
    Posts
    49

    Default

    GIVE ME A BREAK toneloc177!!!! THE FACTS ARE THEY WENT TO NYC AND RETURNED FROM THE SITE WITH THE FLAG. THEN BRAGGED ABOUT IT TO THE PRESS. ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE TO FIGURE OUT THAT IT CAME FROM NYC. AND MORE IMPORTANTLY FROM A CRIME SCENE. AND AS FAR AS THANKING THEM FOR DIGGING FOR YOUR EXCHIEF OR FRIEND I HAVE TO ASK HOW LONG DID THEY TAKE AWAY DIGGING FOR MY BROTHER WHO DIED THAT DAY TO PICK UP AND HANDLE THAT FLAG????? YES, MY ACTUAL BROTHER WHO WORKED IN THE FDNY. AND AS FAR AS LUMPING ME IN WITH THE SOUTHERN FOLK YOU SHOULD KNOW MY BACKGROUND, AND YES I DID CATCH YOUR COMMENT PRIOR TO YOU EDITING IT, I AM FROM NYC BORN AND RAISED AND I AM CURRENTLY A PROFESSIONAL FIRE FIGHTER. SO KISS MY ***, AND PRONOUNCE IT IN A BRONX ACCENT.,
    YES I AM A PROFESSIONAL FIRE FIGHTER AND YES I AM IN THE UNION

  20. #20
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Delta Junction, AK and Fairbanks, AK
    Posts
    117

    Default

    Ok, please don't think I'm a stupid idiot. I read the original post and I'm confused about why everyone is mad at the PA volunteer firefighter. Maybe the firefighter didn't know the flag belonged to FDNY...he just found it in the rubble right? It could have been from anywhere - including from inside the WTC.

    Or maybe I'm missing some of the details here...
    Probie Name: HurryUpMichelle!!

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    hctrouble25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    NJ, USA
    Posts
    356

    Default

    Regardless of whether or not he knew where it came from he shouldn't have taken the flag from where it was...that was not his place or his property. He should have notified the FDNY which is what anyone with a half an ounce of sense would have done. It is a flag that obviously belonged to FDNY, NYPD, or the WTC..so it still belonged to NYC and not to the state of PA or some jackass ff from there either! What he did was wrong, there is no excuse, no justifying it, and no talking his way out of it. Return the flag, make the appropriate apologies, and then pray to God that FDNY forgives you for being a moron.
    Never forget those who went before and sacrified to make us better and stronger as a fire service and a nation. 09-11-01 forever etched in time and our memories. God Speed Boys!

  22. #22
    Forum Member
    PAVolunteer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Dauphin County, PA
    Posts
    1,139

    Default

    To repeat what ToneLoc said ... everybody frickin' relax. Should he have taken it? No. Are they giving it back? Yes.

    SO SHUTUP.

    and Stay Safe

  23. #23
    Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    WAKE COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA
    Posts
    49

    Default

    ITS GOOD TO SEE THE VOLLIES STICKING UP FOR ONE ANOTHER. (THAT WAS SARCASTIC)
    YES I AM A PROFESSIONAL FIRE FIGHTER AND YES I AM IN THE UNION

  24. #24
    Forum Member
    PAVolunteer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Dauphin County, PA
    Posts
    1,139

    Default

    Did I say anything to stick up for the person who stole the flag? No.

    It's hilarious how many people bitch on a computer screen and that's all they do.

    Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

    Stay Safe

  25. #25
    Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    WAKE COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA
    Posts
    49

    Default

    ITS ALSO FUNNY HOW BRAVE YOU ARE ON THE COMPUTER SCREEN AND YET AT THE SAME TIME MUCH LIKE THAT OF A LITTLE BITCH BOY.
    YES I AM A PROFESSIONAL FIRE FIGHTER AND YES I AM IN THE UNION

Closed Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register