1. #26
    Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Posts
    86

    Default

    Mike & Paul-
    You guys are, of course, 100% correct. Some of us around here just enjoy a little hobby called breaking balls.

    7Tower- I too, am convinced you are a silly little teenage poser who knows nothing of life or this job.

    LionPride- Look pal...I mean, "hey dude" you sound like you've got it bad for SFFD. Are you a gay (not that there's anything wrong with that) fire buff or something?

    [ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: NozzleHog ]

  2. #27
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    16

    Default

    San Francisco has rebuilt herself seven times after fire lay her in ruin. During the Gold Rush, the town was devastated by six great fires, each of which almost wiped it out of existence! Until 1866, the retrievers of valuable property and saviors of those caught in the midst of smoke and flame were a hardy band of volunteers-men who, arm-in-arm, hand-pulled wagons full of water up the hills to the rising flames lighting beam and canvas, and became Heroes for a makeshift community. Racing to blazes in early San Francisco, firemen cleared the streets ahead with ringing bells and clattering noise makers. Their acts of courage were the stuff of legend! Their brawn and bravado set many a woman to swoon, while at least one made a career out of chasing the engines as they sped toward the flame.
    San Francisco's trials by fire inspired inventions by Fire Department Maintenance Shop Supervisors. Use of the Hayes Aerial Ladder (1868) and the Gorter Nozzle (1886) spread to fire departments throughout the world.

    By 1906, San Francisco had grown into a city that was the pride of a nation-Crown Jewel of the Pacific! Her port called all cultures and trade, in her financial center beat the heart of Western commerce. Her people felt cultured and proud and showed off their fortunes in tastes of Queen Victoria and gold leaf.

    At 5:12 a.m. on April 18, 1906, the greatest natural catastrophe in the history of the United States shook San Francisco to its knees. The fire that ensued wiped most human artifact from her face. But San Francisco's symbol is that of a Phoenix which rises from the ashes always to be reborn. Without water to extinguish the flames, (water mains were broken), her firefighters wedged wagons pulled by trusty steeds throughout a city of rubble and fought the flames with ax and dynamite. For three days they battled the blaze and delivered the living to safety. Refugees of the Golden City gazed from the hilltops in disbelief as the fire quelled in the hands of their consummate heroes.


    From the ashes, rose The City once again. There are 23 Vintage Firehouses in San Francisco which remain as proud relics to a group of heroes who brightly blazed their own pathway to glory with a courage and defiance against adversity that continues to epitomize the pioneering spirit of our City by the Bay. Historic sentinels of our past, sentries and protective reminder for our future, may they always stand as beacons signaling a unique heritage.

  3. #28
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    16

    Default

    NOZZEL HOG----------- excuse me first i am a lady...... second i will be joining the SFFD RESERVES......hopefully sometime soon..(jan. it think they hire again) and third of all I WAS EXPRESSING MY VIEWS.............
    and 4th NOZZLE HOG.... I AM A FIRE BUFF AND PROUD OF IT......

  4. #29
    Some Guy

    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Location
    I don't know but I here laughing.
    Posts
    1,001

    Default

    Just to recap on my post. I was NOT trying to talk down on any one or group of departments. I was just trying to defend us east coasters. I just got REALLY MAD when LODD's was brought in to this. Mr tower 7 or whatever, I sit here in amazment at your comments. The start of this topic was just an observation by some people and a fire chief. It was never knocking the SFFD. Nor was I ever knocking LA or LA co. How this elavated to this level is truly amazing. It nice to see life is getting back to normal when stuff like this happens. West vs East? it is all the same to me, Americans kicking fires *** and getting the job done PERIOD.
    This space for rent

  5. #30
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    16

    Default

    okay i agree with you but since it turned into a dept bashing i had to defend SFFD as others where degrading it ;

  6. #31
    Forum Member
    BucksEng91's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Warminster, PA
    Posts
    576

    Default

    Hey Lionpride -

    Ummm, I don't recall any posts here where anyone put down SFFD. If anything, guys have been quite respectful. I, for one, am a big admirer of SFFD.

    So calm down - keep yer knickers on, nobody's downing your beloved department. What we're arguing about are the assh*le comments by some little wannabe who can't decide whether he's from the West Coast, or the Southeast. Another two year wonder, probably a "Fire Science" major at the local community college.
    "Let's roll." - Todd Beamer, one of a group of American soldiers who handed the terrorists their first defeat.

    Joe Black

    The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone (but you can borrow them )and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated (but then again, they just may not be thinking clearly).

  7. #32
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,104

    Default

    East vs West in the cage match of the century. I can't help but laugh at the whole jist of this forum.

    Here in the midwest we try to take the best from both coasts and mix it with our own ingenuity and create the best of all worlds.

    Different building construction as well as terrain, wildland urban interface, and so on and so on will always make for individual departments doing things slightly or massively different from others in this business.

    Name calling, the tastelessness of bringing LODD's into the topic, serve no possible purpose other than to enflame.

    By the way if 7Tower isn't Larry he must be one of his closest disciples.

    Take care and stay safe on both the right and left coasts,

    FyredUp
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  8. #33
    Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Posts
    86

    Default

    LionPride:
    Flipping back through the posts, I don't think anyone here was bashing SFFD, except maybe their new outside "Chief" Trevino or whatever his name is with that throwback remark.

    If anything, being an east coast style dept. on the left coast endears them to my heart. Now, as for the rest of those dept's out there...

    Just an observation from a throwback culture.
    Best of luck to ya .

  9. #34
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    Fire is fire, it doesn't matter if it's on the East Coast or West Coast. Every community has its vast differences; it also has its similarities.

    Boston and San Francisco are similar..large cities built on the ocean, with land reclaimed from the sea, houses that are very close together, on a major fault line, etc.

    The tactics used by the SFFD and BFD are similar....so is the terminology (in Boston, firefighters are called "jakes". In San Fran they are called "jakeys") I've been out west twice (Colorado and Arizona) and things are different when you can literally build a new community out of wide open unincorporated area.

    We can learn and should learn from the experiences of firefighters from both coasts.

    PS: Doesn't 7Tower's writing style remind you of someone else? Larry, is that you?

    [ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: Captain Gonzo ]
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  10. #35
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Santa Margarita, Ca
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Every department has different ways of doing things. That I understand and appreciate. I am confused now after reading all these posts and hope this is not the wrong place to ask a question?? I was told that the California Department of forestry and Fire Protection was the largest department in the country if not the world. Im not into the stats of every dept. but just was curious if true??
    Tom

  11. #36
    Some Guy

    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Location
    I don't know but I here laughing.
    Posts
    1,001

    Default

    I think Hong Kong or Tokyo are the largest.

    Who is this guy Larry? I take it he has been a problem here before? what is he like a 12years old?
    This space for rent

  12. #37
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Santa Margarita, Ca
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Please disregard the above question.

    If I were twelve I would know everything.

    Here on the west coast you are supposed to ask questions if you are confused about something. I will direct my questions to my volunteer department in the future.
    Tom

  13. #38
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Watchung, NJ USA
    Posts
    88

    Default

    Hey Cap,

    I was thinking the same thing about the writings of LHS*. Very similar.
    Kevin M. Fitzhenry
    Captain, Rescue Company 1
    City of Bayonne (NJ) Fire Department

  14. #39
    Some Guy

    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Location
    I don't know but I here laughing.
    Posts
    1,001

    Default

    Hi Kevin. It's nice to see another FMBA guy. I here this guy is quite the wing-nut
    This space for rent

  15. #40
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Garland, TX, USA
    Posts
    139

    Default

    Hey...anyone been to any 1000 alarm grass fires, where 500 engines were there in one hour lately? I love those calls. They're pretty schweet!

  16. #41
    Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    41

    Default

    I read Trevino's article and was surprised by the comment. I think he said it because he has no idea how to classify his new department. I feel sorry for the guy. He is a fish out of water. Here 4+ months and still has not made one appointment. He has been to 20+ greater alarms in the same amount of time. Your not in Kansas anymore Chief!!!!!! No offence to anyone from Kansas. Though the rumor is he is about to make HUGE changes (hoods, full turnouts, ICS training, new command staff……&#8230 . Bring them on. Anything is better than doing nothing. But, the poor guy has no staff to work with. Promotions over the last 5 years based on everything BUT a test has put him with few quality players.

    As far as the East vs West thing, there are differences. Most of the subtle differences have been posted already. One I have noticed is the perception about fighting fire. On the East it tends to be viewed as a simple, cut and dry job. Get in.....get out. On the West this job is viewed as a "science". It must be broken down and organized(ICS), then analyzed and then dealt with. Whatever system you prescribe to is your choice. Good luck!!

  17. #42
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Santa Cruz County, CA
    Posts
    11

    Default

    I will try to keep this helpful to the original question on the topic starter post. My point of view will try to be from the standpoint of what can be taught in some educational forums and unfortunately purveyed in the media. My PERSONAL opinion before the flamers might get upset is I am saddened to see such a split in feelings amongst the fire “forum” here so soon after these catastrophic events – I was hoping the feelings I saw for awhile on the side of togetherness would last MUCH longer – The only EC “vs” WC idea I care to see now is the time zones – everything else is a subjective fodder for those entrenched in negativity.

    East Coast “vs” West Coast when I started in the fire service (1987) was a generalized notion of an older style (NY, MA,)“vs” a more rapid progression of newer styles (later to become Seattle’s EMS and Phoenix’s overall FD). The media would propagate these generalizations by always showing the most dramatic footage they could of EC incidents on both national and local news (example: the famous FDNY rope rescue off the burning building) of the greater 5-8 alarm fires – and unfortunately they would never show the whole story – they would always seem to show the guys with the boots rolled down, no BAs, etc. fighting the fire from a ladder/tiller or at the apparatus fighting the fire externally. While the usual footage seen on local news stations here in the Bay Area would show SFFD on their latest fire incidents in the same way – staffing on the roof with no BAs on of a working fire, the classic pics of the injured FFs overcome with smoke while inside the buildings, etc. So when reviewed in the classroom the critique would always go over how there were no BAs in use, turnouts not fully worn, Firehouse Magazines articles about the need for the improvements in the scene management systems, blah, blah, blah. Two larger fires in SF in the mid 90s showed some nice flamage from an apartment complex and business – with FFs getting engulfed in smoke fighting valiantly with hose lines and of course – no BAs.

    Further it with negative articles of political issues and overall large problems in NY (inside examples can be seen in posts of the 3rd Watch forum, outside examples in older issues of Firehouse, and thorough explanations on the NIOSH website regarding FF inj/LODDs) “vs” the commonplace articles of Brunacini’s plans and outcomes of progressing his department forward, along with copies of plans forwarded to some cities following the Seattle EMS provision.

    More on media – a lay person will see the cover of Firehouse and see that pic of an LA Captain jumping thru the flames of a roof fire with a BA and turnouts on…jump back a few years to another cover pic of a greater alarm fire in NY where the entire truck crew on the roof and ladder, and the crew coming out of the interior was half-protected in a variety of ways – all actively in suppression.

    NOW…we know that is not the whole story on any event the media covers – but it is what one sees.

    So…now take this SFFD “outside” guy who might have been educated on the West Coast and been subjected to a biased media and possibly biased educators – and the result can be a highly publicized statement such as that.

    Just a long theory, no jabs intended – I hope his SFFD statement stirs nothing but a debate here – and not in the media. And along with the last post before this - that is almost verbatim what I heard in a FPT class once...

  18. #43
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Santa Cruz County, CA
    Posts
    11

    Default

    Originally posted by Staylow:
    On the East it tends to be viewed as a simple, cut and dry job. Get in.....get out. On the West this job is viewed as a "science". It must be broken down and organized(ICS), then analyzed and then dealt with.
    Thats the part I meant....

  19. #44
    Banned

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    110

    Post

    No wonder thay had to find an outside chief, accoring to you their are no real chief officers.

    [ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: the7tower ]


  20. #45
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Santa Cruz County, CA
    Posts
    11

    Default

    Originally posted by the7tower:
    No wonder thay had to find an outside chief, accoring to you their are no real chief officers.
    Sorry to sound confused - which response was that directed at? And what does the Vegas reference have to do with this? Is that your department?

  21. #46
    IACOJ Agitator
    Adze39's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    In a van down by the CT River!
    Posts
    2,771

    Default

    For all those who believe the7tower is LHS and for those who have doubts...check out his reply in the forum about Quints. Left no doubt in my mind...
    IACOJ Agitator
    Fightin' Da Man Since '78!

  22. #47
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Santa Cruz County, CA
    Posts
    11

    Default

    For those of us not up on the prior screen name info - who is this LHS/7tower guy?

  23. #48
    Forum Member
    DaFAO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    188

    Default

    To the kind gentleman wondering about large departments, here's your answer on Tokyo Fire:

    289 Stations
    17923 sworn firefighters
    485 engines
    82 ladders
    6 squirts
    23 heavy rescues
    67 foam/chemical trucks
    184 medic units
    9 boats
    6 helicopters

    I'm not sure if it's the biggest, but that's certainly big enough for me...

    7tower=LHS*...The comment about Las Vegas Fire did it for me...

    My opinions only.

    AGS-SGA 091101

  24. #49
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    San Diego Ca.
    Posts
    15

    Default

    Bucks, I got a little miffed about the LODD thing after reading 7towers ramblings. I'd be happy to have a few beers with you and tell you about how my Dept is so great and then you'd tell me how great your Dept is and you know what you'd end up with by the end of the night? Two drunk firemen lauging their *****'s off because they couldn't walk 10 feet without falling on their faces.And the only time you'd see me standing outside is at closing time!

  25. #50
    Forum Member
    BucksEng91's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Warminster, PA
    Posts
    576

    Default

    Sounds good to me, San Diego!!



    There is, of course, very little animosity between East Coast and West Coast departments. We all do the job. But little boys like 7tower, who still hasn't clarified where he's from ("Southeast" or west coast), like to stir the sh*t.

    If I offended you or p*ssed you off with my post, it wasn't intended to do so, and certainly wasn't personal - so I apologize if you felt I was attacking your department or your west coast bretheren. What I really wanted to try to do was to engage 7tower in a little discussion, but it turns out he's just a little bi-atch.

    Anyway, you stay safe. And I will be absolutely sure to let you know if and when I'm coming west. My job takes me around the country.
    "Let's roll." - Todd Beamer, one of a group of American soldiers who handed the terrorists their first defeat.

    Joe Black

    The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone (but you can borrow them )and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated (but then again, they just may not be thinking clearly).

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register