1. #76
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    I'll throw in my two cents worth...

    I have no idea what the Chief was talking about with the reference to east-coast west-coast quote.

    But I do know that I have the best job around. And you probably do too.

  2. #77
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    I agree, said it before.

    I would ride a bicycle with square wheels holding a bucket of water to false alarms all night to work at the fire department.......... but only in the Midwest Just Kidding

    Lets have an East vs West boxing showdown at the dome in St. Louis, SLFD will bring all their quints for inspection by all of the nay-sayers.

    Nah, nevermind.

  3. #78
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    he found a tradition bound do nothing low bid fire department,
    Which had earned an ISO 1 in 1990, 7 years before Chief Trevino's arrival.

    it took him less than 4 years to get 4 more stations, increase staffing 25%

    Um, maybe the equipment, staffing, and station locations where adequate to earn an ISO Class 1 rating in 1990 needed to be updated and increased during a decade that saw 85% growth in population (another 220,000 people for a total of 477,000) and 171% growth in land area (45sq. mi. in 1988; 122 sq. mi. in 2001).


    Oh, and between 1996 and 2000 LV's total calls went up by 26%.

    I'm not knocking the Chief. Maybe I'm looking at it a bit different from Larry. He's complimenting Chief Trevino on "getting" 4 stations and 25% more staff -- that wasn't a hard thing to do when you look at the numbers, if LV wanted to maintain their Class 1 they probably needed to keep growing to match the expanding area. Getting was easy in that situation, **managing** the opening of four stations and the adding of 25% more manpower is by far the bigger accomplishment.

    His experiencing managing that growth I'd be interested in. What plans where in place before him, what did he find "on the ground," what plans did he leave in place. What did he learn, what did he pass on to LVFD from it.

    His experience putting together a plan to replace apparatus. Again, what was there before, what did he leave them with.

    Heck, I'd even be interested in his role in Fire Prevention, both public education and code development and enforcement, that has led to Las Vegas having essentially no growth in fires. (1996: 2,546 fires, 629 structures. 2000: 2,599 fires, 633 structures. When you figure they're population growth even multiplied by the declining number of fires nationally per 1000, you'd still expect 20-25% more fires instead of flat growth). What was the conditions before him? What did he do to improve it? For that matter, I don't have the stats before 1996 -- did he perchance stop an increase that had been happening?

    Numbers can tell you a lot, but you gotta dig at them and understand what ya looking at and what ya looking for.
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    Awwww, wadamatta, 7tower? Did I hurt your little bi-atch feelings?

    You're a little puss, and if I had you here in front of me, I'd spit in your face before I ripped your miniscule testicles off and stuffed them down your throat.

    You don't know me. But I know your kind.

    Is that clear enough for you?
    "Let's roll." - Todd Beamer, one of a group of American soldiers who handed the terrorists their first defeat.

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    The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone (but you can borrow them )and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated (but then again, they just may not be thinking clearly).

  5. #80
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    Yeah staffing went up 25%, all new fleet, 40% increase in fire stations in a town that does not have any growth in fire activity in the last 5 years nor expects to, yet has more visitors than any other area of the world, is one of the two fastest growing cities in the US for 20 some odd years.

    [ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: the7tower ]


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    Sorry to say, but Mario isn't putting up as good numbers here. We just got our annual new rig purchase numbers cut from 4 to 3. His batting average is slipping. The previous chief got us all new turnouts so you can't give him credit for that. But don't worry. Rumor is Mario got us another hazmat rig and rescue company. Thanks chief, just what we needed.

    The topper will be when they close engine and truck companies, a battalion, and a division chief all under Mario's watch. His batting average will deffinately slip a few points.

    And don't try to place the blame on someone or something else. You gave him all of the credit for Vegas, not the union, city counsel, or mayor. You'll have to give him the blame for SF. He made majic in Vegas, but time will tell what he does here.

    Oh yeah, Larry, What is ISO and do WE have one? If its a thermal imaging camera or something it sounds great. Maybe you could get us one to tryout.

  7. #82
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    Larry, do you make friends everywhere you go? What happend with Fire Rescue Mag? Have you ever been...err.. caught touching yourself while looking at Mario's picture? How come you never give talks or what ever in the north east? Why is it no one seems to like you or ever have like you here? Why do you have to keep changing your name here? So tell me why do you just suck? This was a normal thread untill you were just a complete dumb ***.


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    [ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Kyle Wickman ]
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  8. #83
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    What other department with 500,000 population or more has increased staffing 25%, increased stations 40% and replaced all of the fire trucks in one year.

    [ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: the7tower ]


  9. #84
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    Hey all,

    Wow this topic sure turned ugly. Look you can't have a ****ing match about who has more trucks or who is more aggressive. You have to look at what you are dealing with and what has to get done. My outlook is that when you live in the oldest cities which are nothing but high rises(manhattan) you have to be aggressive. There are limited if any sprinkler systems and to many people.

    West coast areas are very well kept on fire codes and fire prevention. Yes we may'be more progressive as far as safety and other such tactics, but man have you ever seen how many guys show up to a high rise fire in new york. (sorry west coast, have you ever seen how many persons show up to a fire.) This brings me to my next comparison.

    We are (west coast) so worried about being politically correct that we cannot afford as many trucks, due to the fact that we pay out to much money on law suits. In new york you do your job and do it how it has to be done. Both coasts have their good and bad to it. I think the thing that kills the west coast is definetely the political correctness issues. Before you slam me on this topic many agree. I don't care if you are purple, women whatever. If you can do the job it is yours. If you can't you shouldn't compromise safety to meet a quota.

    If that is done you will see alot more fatalities on the west coast. O.K. let me end on that note since I wasn't writing to bitch, which happened. My main point was who cares who does what, the way that all agencies came together in New York made me proud. West coast and east coast came hand in hand and really did a wonderful job. Where those guys asking who was more aggressive?? NO. They did there job the way they knew. Always ask what the topography, call volume and underlying factors persist. This will be some reasons why things are done the way there done.

    I don't think I made any sense with this post but be safe and thanks to all of those who came together for our brothers and sisters during this time of need. be safe

  10. #85
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    7th tower,

    I understand your points, but you have to realize when vegas bought new trucks, increased staffing and added new stations it wasn't because they are superior. They have a great community behind them which ops for more tax dollars to be spent on fire resourses and safety. I know this due to friends of mine who work for three of the vegas agencies.

    Not all departments get that luxury for equipment(even on the west coast). Some of the city councils hate firefighters(hard to believe) but it is true. They would rather spend the budget on other issues other than safety. I only said this so that you realize that the state of Nevada is not your everyday west coast department. I don't know about trucks, but I sure wish I had a new uniform, haha.

  11. #86
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    (All you cry babies are whinning because the guys only been there 4 months. You didn't get in that stinking hole in SF in 4 months.)

    Whatever that means?????????

    (You didn't end up uinder a court decree to hire properly for hiring properly.)

    So you think quoya based hireing is good Larrry?

    (A few more swasticas on lockers,)

    The FBI found out the guys were lying Larrry and planted the art work. But they were not disciplined because they were minorities.

    (closing stations and going out of district for dinner while people die in your district)


    Noone died Larry. It was a fire, and they were disciplined.


    (and a return the the silliness of the past and maybe the state will take over the opperation like they did the school across the bay, LOL.)

    The Feds controlled the hiring only Larrry, not the State, because they thought they had all the right answers. Much like you they thought they knew everything.

    (You are already saying everything is the chief's fault or gonna be the chiefs fault so stop being so two faced and allow something good to be under the chiefs watch.)

    Re-read my post. I said it will be his fault if things don't turn out like they did for him in Vegas. Read more carefully cry baby.

    (Even NFPA couldn't believe how 60% of your guys onscene at a fire were injuried for not wearing department issued gear.)

    I think you are the only guy who has seen this report. But, maybe it is true. I'd like to see it.


    (Stoneage, yeah that is it! You all need a good enima, Mario's gonna give it to you.)

    Oh brother!!!!


    (Open the ICMA Journal and read how screwed up the FD is)

    Well, if its in the ICMA Journal then it must be true!!!

    (twice as many station per square mile as any FD on earth.)

    Second most densely populated area in the country Larry. There is a reason for the numbers. You would think you would be a proponent for the type of staffing we have. I guess you would rather have fewer firemen throughout the country? That's right, our staffing isn't necessary because others do it with less in other places.

    Without the desity, building construction, topograph, and call volume.

    Larry, get your nose out of Mario's rear. He is not going to give you a job. And you know that is what you really want.

  12. #87
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    Guys, as he has proven before, Larry will change, twist, contort, or otherwise dismember any argument to fit the end that he wants. He's argued in previous forums that we have less fires now, so we should be cutting staffing. Now, he's tooting LV's horn saying how they've increased staffing, blah, blah, blah. It changes depending on the day of the week. The only thing Larry hasn't done is tell us why he is no longer at Fire-Rescue!

    Stay Safe

  13. #88
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    OK...Ill jump back in.
    The best person for the Chiefs job was Paul Tobacco, a "insider" that also happens to be a white male. These two things definately hurt his chances. He had the best chance of making good, intelligent changes in this fire department. With the SFFD, change must be a gentle gradual process, not a sudden acceleration. All that will happen when "Super Mario" tries to play his little political games, is serious undermining of his authority. I just DON't understand what is SOOOOOOO wrong with tradition, its what has kept us alive for years. Notice I did't say I hate change, just I think we HAVE to understand and appreciate our past, and incorporate it into any changes we do make.

  14. #89
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    I'm a little confused Larry.

    Is an ISO Class 1 fire department not a good fire department if it's overworked, running with old equipment, red-ball gloves? Jeepers, the previous administration got the Class 1 and didn't kill anyone for 21 or so years before Cheif Trevino came to town. Doesn't sound like it was that bad of a department before.

    OK all you cry babies, what other department with 500,000 population or more has increased staffing 25%, increased stations 40% and replaced all of the fire trucks in one year.
    Ok, how about ever???


    Interesting question if anyone's achieved that Trifecta.
    25% staffing? Sure. Almost every major department in the U.S. founded before 1940 has. Some twice. Some from the 19th century would see that happen three times.

    Replacing fleets in one year is by far the most common occurence of the three.

    40% more stations, well, that I'd have to dig into. Out on the east coast we don't have too many cities that increase their size 171% in a decade...although I'd be suspicious FDNY achieved growth in that range during the annexations and development of Queens and the Bronx at the end of the 19th century. (You did say ever)
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    So if political correctness is the reason California has mopre paid firefighters than any other state

    [ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: the7tower ]


  16. #91
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    This started as a good thread with some good potential. However, it turned into a ****ing contest or a measuring contest to see who's was bigger, topped off by another distasteful comment about LODDs.

    At an average of 100 LODDs nation wide per year, it is conceivable that a department can have a long history without one. For example, in 1997 the Stockton, CA FD lost two firefighters in a structure after 50 years without one. Did that make them a bad Dept that year? I don't think so. Just because my dept has been LODD free for years doesn't make us better. It is simple law of averages.

    I personally have found that what makes departments like NY, San Fran, Boston, Chicago, etc. Desirable to the rest of the fire service is TRADITION. I found a picture of a San Fran Ladderman dated 1938 with the same Ladder Co helmet marking as worn today. And I find that most of the true firefighters would like to see more of that grasp of tradition in their own departments.

    These departments and ones like them don't change for the sake of change; they change when change is necessary. My hat goes off to all of the brothers who are keeping the faith. We need to stand together to keep our service out of the hands of those who aren’t out there on the line with us. If any of you come to my neck of the woods, I’ll buy.

  17. #92
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    I agree with several other folks who have said that this thread has degenerated significantly from a very promising start. One of the most significant things I've learned in almost 20 years in fire/EMS is how much I still can learn. The arguements that have played out in some of the messages in this thread don't help any of us learn and are getting to the point where they don't even help understanding where the other person is coming from.

    If each of us wrote messages that described why certain tools, tactics, apparatus, etc. worked well for us and/or their limititions, we all could learn. Instead, we're getting "who's better" and "that's just xxxx again". Here are some questions I've been left with:
    • Good truck work, except for (pick your favorite department(s)), is what differentiates east & west coast departments. How about saying what type of structures, forcible entry problems, ventilation problems, etc. make what types of truck tactics needed?
    • FDNY uses threaded supply line, 3 1/2" I believe, while many other folks use 4-5" with Storz connections. Why is one better/worse than the other?
    • Some east coast departments use reverse lays, placing the initial engine at the hydrant. Other places use forward lays. Again, what are the reasons for each approach?
    There are many others - this is just some examples that have popped up in this thread. If we can respond with reasons and examples, all of us from either coast & us in between, can see what's applicable to our own response areas. Thanks.
    Proud to be honored with IACOJ membership. Blessed by TWO meals cooked by Cheffie - a true culinary goddess. Expressing my own views, not my organization's.

  18. #93
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    7th tower,

    I wasn't slamming you, so don't slam me. I was just stating what I know of N.Las Vegas and henderson and clark county. When my friends call up every 6 months and say hey we are hiring, hey we just got more money for equipment and hey I love having a boat and everything else good, it means the budget is doing welol and the community is behind it.

    I have heard first hand that the community is behind fire safety and finance, so that is why I said it. Since you know everthing and tell everyone they are wrong all the time, why don't you go for fire marshall of the united states and do it your way.

    I also heard they are looking for a fire chief on mars, turn in an interest card!!

    I was only trying to make a statement, but since you are obviously hot towards others comments I had to react. May'be you need to distinguish between people attacking you and people making conversation.

    Be safe all!

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    can some one put whateverhis name is now out of his misery.Say one thing mean another.You know this post wouldnt be 6 pages long if you take him out of the mix.Political correctness is not a political office.PC is a big load of manure.Plus the whole lets get sprinklers in buildings on East coast lets see Mario do that.Get real moron it will never happen.To many lobbyist's and politicians in the way for one plus cost for the seecond.25%staffing increases wow how many made it through probation?How many were hired under AA?How many were hired to fill the quota?lets just let this whole damn thread fall off maybe dances with many names around questions(his offical Native American name )will go back under a rock with a picture of his beloved.Nuff said?

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    Hi, I'm not going to tell you who I am. I don't actually fight fires, but I love to read and compile all my statistics and throw them out there for all to read in amazement. You will all be dazzled with my knowledge of ISO, budgets, staffing levels, and restaurant choices of the SFFD. I once was part of a 1000 alarm bermuda grass fire...which would have consumed the entire midwest had it not been for our ability to summon more than 60,000 firefighters with one radio message. Me and Mario were on the first in chiefs car together. We were able to coordinate the staging area in such a way as to keep the active fire crews very diverse, so as not to hurt anyones feelings. Some of the firemen there didn't think that was necessary and started to make fun of me. I called my mommy and she told me that they wasn't from ISO #1 departments and were still using equipment made in the 90's. My mommy. She always knows just what to say to cheer me up. Thanks mommy!!

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    LMFAO!!!!!


    true, true

  22. #97
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    Well here is how I see things. I come from a small vol. dept. in Oregon. We tend to look at the East cost and say that is crazy. We only say that because it would not work in our enviroment. We protect 200 square miles of high desert (7 inches of rain a year). While we are a structure dept. we only have 4 1000 pumpers while we have 2 3000 tankers, and 3 1000 heavy brush trucks, and 3 250gal light brush trucks and one light resq. all this to say that when we roll out the door more aften than not we are going on a brush fire driven by 10-20 mph wind that is 20 min. out from the station and when we get there it is not uncomon to be there for 8 hours. But in the 3 years that I have been there we have not lost a structer to a wild land fire. now if you brought a NY city crew out to run in the summer with us in there bunckers they would first of all not be able to get to the fire in the truck, then they would have to hike around in their hevey bunckers in 95 deg heat. But when we roll up in our brush rigs and can go strate to the fire and start a strong mobile atack that stops a fire that would have taken a subdivtion that is why we do things the way we do. send us back to NY we can do interior atack with the best of them but high rise bildings don't have a clue . I gess that what I am trying to say is that when I look at NY or any big city for that matter I say that looks crazy they could never stop a running fire with that and they look at us and say why on earth do you have all of that apartus that is out of service for 9 mounths out of the year. you do what works for you in the safest most efective manore posable and then respect others for doing the same.

    stay safe and put the wet stuff on the red stuff
    Jesse

  23. #98
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    Gah74, I am in tears right now. I have not lcracked up that hard in while. I see in the "quint" form Larry is starting to talk about Fire Rescue.
    This space for rent

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    Gah74- I tend to try not to get involved in threads like this, but your post had me almost tossing my cookies in hysterics!

    Truckman- 'atta boy! I agree one hundred percent.

    7towers- I don't particularly care about politics, opinions, or whatever... just one question- are you or are you not *LHS? That is, if you have the testicular fortitude to come right out and be HONEST with the rest of the group...
    Hey, it's MY opinion, not that of my department or peers.

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    Well LA County and LA City tend to differ in the area of truck work,
    The County well there trucks are mostly Quints unlike the City's who don't operate Quints, I Have a cousin with LA City who works on one of there trucks
    The City is pretty good department in truck work
    Although the County they don't do alot of truck work, I've seen LACoFD in action more than I have seen the LAFD in action, At most fire the County tends to use there trucks mainly for aerial stream acsess

    Although San Fran is not the only FD that operates like an East Coast Fire Department
    There's a small volunteer FD 3-4 miles north of my town and they to are an East Coast style FD, They are a great department when it comes to truck work they do one hell of a job at a fire,Alot of there members have worked for East Coast FD's

    Just thought I would share my two cents on this

    You can take a Firemen out of the East Coast, But you can't take the East Coast out of the Firemen

    E-101

    [ 11-30-2001: Message edited by: Engine 101 ]


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