Thread: ATTN FD EXPERTS

  1. #26
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    southbronx,

    It has needed to said for a while now and you have said it so well. Thank you for sharing your feelings and thoughts. Your comments should give those "heroes" something to think about.

    I was an auxiliary in Brooklyn's Ladder 132 during the late sixties and early seventies and those guys clearly knew the meaning of hero and brave. No bu!!s#*t from them only hard work and dedication. I know that tradition continues today throughout the FDNY. God bless and keep each and every one of you.

    On another thought, I now live in Houston and our local media doesn't report on what's going on in NYC these days. How are the brothers who are working day in and day out doing? Please tell the brothers and sisters that they are in our prayers.

    With respect and admiration,

    Jim Boyle (aka 1261Truckie)

  2. #27
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    Angry

    Hey....the morons of MFN were so quick to show all the "positive" comments to their article.....how about letting them know how WE really feel....

    Here's the email address

    mfn1@mdfirenet.com



    [ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: Phildabox ]


  3. #28
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    Southbronx....I am with you...When I first started reading...I thought...damn....who is this guy... Then as I read on...I realized you are right. I personnally wont buy anything unless I know where the money is going for sure.

    As many others did...I wanted to be there to help but could not. When it all first happened it was a brother hood of firefighters.. Now it is someone trying to sell their story.

    I have a friend who works at FDNY and I was worried sick until I heard he was ok.

    I feel for all you guys and wish I could be there to simply wipe the sweat from your face as you take a break.

    God bless all of you....and to those that are trying to capitalize on the loss of our brothers..I say>>>>>>"you can kiss my American **S!"
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
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    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  4. #29
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    Thumbs down




    What a couple of real "heroes".

    Living the dream...

  5. #30
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    SouthBronx...Believe me when I tell you that you aren't the only one with this problem. It makes me sick that so many of our so called "brothers" are in some way or another trying to cash in on the single most devasting event in recent American history. I'm not even approaching this as a FF/PM, but as a person with a very strong military background. I'll close with this thought in the most sincere honor of those of your friends that were lost... In my military time, we were tasked with doing things that no one outside of the unit really needed to know about... MANY of the helping rescuers need to give an honest attempt at striving for our level of integrity as "QUIET PROFESSIONALS"... Brian
    Brian Rowe
    Paramedic/Engineer
    Colleton County Fire/Rescue

  6. #31
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    Dear Brothers in Battle,i epent 19 hours at ground zero.i got there when the second tower came down.the only thing i want to remember about 9/11 is the heroic and valiant efforts of the FF's cops and ems people who lost their lives in the line of duty,helping to rescue 1000's of victims of the world trade center.without their heroic actions 1000's more would of perished.there are always going to be skels out there who want to blow there own horn,but we cant let these dirtbages soil the honor of our dead brothers. mike m

  7. #32
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    I agree 100% that there is a great deal of inappropriate actions taking place post-9/11. However, I took a look at the mdfirenet web site. From what I read, Mr. Goetz is a career firefighter/paramedic with AACoFD which I am pretty sure in Anne Arundel County. I would also hazard a bet that he is a member of IAFF Local 1563. I have heard many negative comments directed at "buffs." Mr Goetz may be a buff part-time, but it looks like he is full-time career firefighter.
    On a another topic regarding municipal funding bashing politicians and city managers, I read a comment that said "forget about the politicians, our worst enemy is us." I agree. If Mr. Goetz is in fact an IAFF career firefighter, then the problem here isn't with "those buffs," but rather right here at home.
    If somebody wants to do some more checking on Mr. Goetz, let us know, but it sure is looking like he is a career firefighter with AACo in MD.

  8. #33
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    Thumbs down

    Even if he is a career ff/pm with AACo., he still came back bragging about what a hero he is with tall tales, pictures, and video, and put on a website no less! This is inexcusable IMHO.

    Get a rope!
    Living the dream...

  9. #34
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    Amen SouthBronx!!! Lets all look at one thing here for one minute.I needed to be there.Lets focus on that for one second.In my dept every 2 or so years we get together with our local airport and all of the surrounding first due depts in our area.We will have a class and then a plane crash drill.Each dept gets to be the first in dept in a rotating fashion(going by the years since last time)We had one where a town 3 districts over was first due and our job was to be pumping from an industries private lake.All units were dispatched(to respond no lights and sirens)to the staging area and go from there.We are dispatched on our own frequency and the IC overlooked us till his tankers needed water.He asked"Why didnt you guys just come on out?"To which our chief replied"You never called for us."
    Here is the point.You are not called you are not needed.Freelancing is a favorite target of armchair chiefs why not these guys?I may be considered a buff of FDNY,I have shirts and hats and books about it,but I know my first responsibility is to MY dept.Not to go running to someone elses call,no matter how I feel.
    Someone made the case he was a paid guy.So what?Was he called there?No.Was he asked to film?No.
    South is also right in the respect that this site is not a counseling center.Closure my ***.Did any of you screaming that ever work with these guys?The ones needing closure are the ones that experienced this first hand.
    I hope that those that have slammed the FDNY(which is bulls*it)have gotten your jollies out of it."Iknew the building would come down"yeah maybe after the report released the other day but not on the day of the attack.
    In closing I would like to say God bless THE TRUE HEROES!****** on the mutts.

  10. #35
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    This thread has me thinking. I have noticed lots of articals about people's heroic stories in newspapers and diffent magazines. Everyone trying to get a claim to fame. It is sick. One thing I did notice though, people I do know who were sent there never talk about it. My captain and a police sergeant in town are on NJT-1. The weird thing that I just now noticed is that they never talk about it. The local papers all wanted to do big write ups on them and have them tell there story. If I recall correctly they basically just admited to being there. Even at work my captain never talks about it. I remember seeing pictures he had one day. All of them were mostly of the team at the Javits center. I know they did see a lot of work there (they were there for 11 days) but still almost nothing you here from them. I guess they just think its not something to talk or brag about.
    I am just rambling, sometimes I am slow and it takes me awhile to notice stuff.

    [ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: Kyle Wickman ]


  11. #36
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    Here in Michigan, we've been treated to numerous media stories about our "heroes" from a nearby Public Safety Dept.(crosstrained cops) They hurried to NY after the tragedy to offer their "newly earned expertise (?) in confined space rescue, which was desperately needed"! Basically, they just got their class on how to use a tripod and an air monitor. The news had all kinds of pictures of these guys at the Pile. They came back after 2 days.
    Now, to give them a little credit, I do think they had good intentions, and I didn't hear them claiming any heroics. I think that either their dept or a family member notified the media, and they just went along with the story. We have to acknowledge the media plays a large role in hyping "the local angle" in a lot of these cases. The only saving grace is positive press for the dept., but I don't think that is worth the respect of your peers, much less dishonoring those who were doing the real work.

  12. #37
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    AMEN, southbronx!

    And ditto what Grit and Phildabox said: please don't think ALL us Marylanders are of the caliber of those few.

    An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!

  13. #38
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    gunnyv, thats a very good point.
    This space for rent

  14. #39
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    True, not all the Brothers from Maryland are Mutts like these snaps.....every now and then you find a FOOL.

    FTM - PTB

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    Thumbs up

    Thanks 51Truck....glad you were able to spot us
    FOOLS


    Be Safe up there....we're with you down here bro

    [ 11-30-2001: Message edited by: Phildabox ]


  16. #41
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    That's GEEZING fool to you buddy........

  17. #42
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    excellent post southbronx. I also have been watching and reading all the heros out there scrambling to get on t.v.or in the papers.This has made me sick from the week of 9-11 till now. You have put my feelings into words better than I ever could.Real firefighters do not brag or try to show up everyone else, they just do their work and than wait for the next job.You respond when ASKED,and you refer all communication to the dept. of record. stay safe southbronx, God bless you and all the brothers.

  18. #43
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    Red face

    As I read the MFN article, I swore I was listening to a couple of glory hounds! Thank you for your post SouthBronx. I too wanted to go, but only if asked. I liken this to sitting in your station and hearing a working job get tripped out in another town, so do you just go in route to their job? Think people!!!!

  19. #44
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    Southbronx, first my condolances to you and your department. I am friends with many from the FDNY. Second, I agree with your post and it has been long overdue. I am sickened by the outside glory hounds that have done nothing but brag about being on the pile. It is a disgrace and I am embarrassed by it. I try to stay out of all the hub bub and bickering on these forums but after I read the MFN article I could'nt hold back from emailing them. I received an instant, nasty gram back from the author defending his position and bravery, not to mention his personal attack on my experience with teaching the fire service in Rapid Intervention. I suggest everyone that is appalled by the article to email the MFN and give your opinion. This type of behavior in the fire service should stop. The ONLY true heroes of 9/11/01 are the firefighters of the FDNY and rescue workers that paid the ultimate sacrifice. Everyone else outside of the FDNY needs to take several steps back and shut up.....

    Jim Crawford
    Pittsburgh
    James K. Crawford
    Assistant Fire Chief
    Midway Fire Rescue
    Pawleys Island, SC

  20. #45
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    I agree with you SouthBronx! It is truely unfortunate that others seek to bring the spotlight on themselves. I had the privilage of coming to NYC the weekend of the 18th. I have nothing but respect for all in the FDNY, I made friends that weekend, that will stay with me hopefully for the rest of my career.

    I returned to my department, only to have my shop steward, ask me to try and get a discount on memorial shirts from E-226. I was shocked to say the least, words were exchanged, to put it nicely and the subject was dropped, 10 minutes later the same guy wanted me to give him pictures that I had taken. I guess after 18 years on the job this shouldn't amaze me but it does, especially from a union rep! He received the same answer of NO! Sorry this turned into my own silly soapbox. God Bless E-226 and all my brothers in the FDNY.

    The majority of my brothers in Missouri will never forget 9-11-01

    Stay safe Brothers

  21. #46
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    Southbronx - My heart is with you brother. The real firemen on this site know who the real heroes of 9/11 are. We will not forget.

    Be safe Brothers

  22. #47
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    Brothers...

    Thanks for all of the replies and continued support. I am slightly surprised at the number of responses and the interest shown. I just wanted to take a second to clarify a few things in the interest of fairness.

    I, along with most guys in this job, do not have a problem with "buffs" per se. My firehouse has a dedicated buff like most others in the Bronx. I have a hard time disliking people that want nothing more than to be in the firehouse and around firemen for the sheer love of the job.

    In our job, the term "buff" is used to describe anyone who approaches the job in a certain manner... including guys who are on the job. This is the "...seen it all...I was there...look at my scrapbook..." act. This, in and of its self, is not a bad thing. But when you combine this with an ignorance of how to step up and do the right thing for your brothers, THAT is where the guys in my job get ****ed.

    If you want to come to the house and hang out, take in some runs, thats cool... but bring cake for the boys, or some other gesture thats let them know that THEY are important. If something goes wrong at a job or a brother gets hurt... put the goddamn camera away. Because its THEIR house and their job.

    When you go to a job, and are out of position, trying to get in where the action is, instead of being where you are assigned and doing what the rest of us are counting on you to do, thats what we call "buffy". It shows a general disrespect for the rest of your brothers and a "ME" first attitude that my brothers despise. If you are truly busy or experienced, why do you still need to act like you have never seen a fire before? I love the guys in this job, not because of the number of fires they take in but because of the way they conduct themselves here and away from the job. Even though our fire duty here is "alleged" and "exagerrated". (sorry, I couldn't resist)

    Please understand that I was not attacking the organized buff community as a whole or anyone else that GENUINELY wanted to help out. Rather, I was talking to the "buffs" that put their personal needs above the good of my brothers.

    In regards to the WTC, I certainly did not mean to imply that a "pecking order" of sacrifice or heroism exists. I did not mean to put down the SINCERE contributions of any members from throughout the world that showed up after the 11th, or to ask for universal recognition that " ...we are hurting worse than you are, because its our city!" I have my own thoughts about taking it upon yourself to respond to any incident, but not strong enough thoughts to belittle any HONEST effort to step up... as alot of you did. Especially the fellas from Jersey City and the Island, who were so close to us and go there quickly.

    But why in the world would you publicly criticize the operation before it is over? If you didn't get to do a whole lot, as most of you didn't, you still did your job. FEMA guys here in the city from SOC are more than capable. So why would you think that they should watch you work? This is their home. Real firemen would accept it for what it is, keep their mouth shut and move on.

    I've got news for you... guys from this job, that went down to the site with the daily task forces the job set up, often didn't get to do as much as they wanted to either. But they did what was asked and moved on. Because THE JOB IS BIGGER THAN ALL OF US.

    My intended targets were the posers that are writing articles and making videos and doing the world tour deal. If you were truly here and truly cared, do you need a camera? Lord knows none of us does. If I or one of my brothers are at the site, and we see you posing for photo ops or video taping how do you think we feel? We have computers in NYC... we get the same magazines that you are penning your horsesh*t articles in... we watch CNN.

    If you can get credit or praise from your family, friends or close by community... take it, you deserve it. If someone is going to buy you a drink and listen to your tales of daring, by all means, have at it. If some chick will give you a shot because she thinks you saved the world...who are we to stop that.

    But for Gods sake, keep it quiet. We are only asking for respect for our brothers and their families AND for the living here who may be having a difficult time with the whole episode. Save the high profile stuff for a later date.

    To you other posers, that have your own motives, I hope you wake up one day and realize that this job is not a competition. The fireman in the biggest, busiest city and the fireman in the slowest, most rural area are the same man. Your level of activity, real or make-believe, will not secure respect from anyone. Usually we can tolerate your act. But when my brothers are hurting, and you don't seem to give a sh@t, then you offend all of us.

    Are any of my FDNY brothers out there? Especially the 1st, 3rd, 11th division and SOC, who took it on the chin. You must be feeling this even more than I.

    [ 11-30-2001: Message edited by: southbronx ]


  23. #48
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    Again, excellent post SoBronx. Well said and well done.

    You state plainly the real deal.

    Thank you, and keep posting.
    09-11-01:Never Forget

  24. #49
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    I too have seen some whom have praised themselves a bit much, or too much. But on this below -

    [quote] Originally posted by south bronx -
    These people seem bent on turning the events at the WTC into their own personal platform. Either they want to tell the world of all the daring, heroic services they performed there, they want sympathy for all of the mental and physical damage they incurred from their heroic service or they want to travel the country selling their story in magazine articles and seminars in which they relate their own personal sacrifices as well as illuminating the glaring tactical errors made by the clearly inexperienced and outgunned FDNY.

    In a job as big as ours, our members have contacts and friends in every corner of our country. It has been truly educational to hear some of the fables being spun throughout this great land. In these forums alone, I have seen several messages that contain the words "...I was there and..." or "... you wouldn't believe what I saw there...".


    Hey, I'll admit it. While I'm on my 5th or sumthingth beer (like, now), I'll put in my two cents, same as everyone. I'll tell those who want to listen a tale or two w/ little or no embellishement about whatever experiences that I have experienced. I guess to me, it's like free therapy. Yes, I was there at g/z. Wish nobody was. Unlike some fuked up a-rabs, I wish it never happened. It has affected me, and maybe by telling a few of the goings on, it's helpin me. So, although I do agree w/ you on people portraying themselves as the hero on a pedistal (which they did w/ utter bull-excrimate), I would disagree with the broad statement that those who were there are telling their stories to put themselves on a 'personal platform'. Some yes, but think of those who maybe need to get it off there chest, and when their wifes or families say, 'What's wrong?'. Do you tell them? or do you tell others who have been there w/ you and know what you're going through. I don't want my family knowing of the nightmare that we've gone through. So i say, 'Nothing'

    Be safe though bro! Need a butt and a beer.
    May God bless all the people and families who have lost
    their lives on 9-11-01, to those also lost on Flight 587, and to the rescuers who responded to both.

    "I'm not saying it's right, i'm just saying (the way it is)."

    FDNY-EMS - Still New York's Best!

    e-mail always accepted @
    toneloc177@firehousemail.com

  25. #50
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    Thumbs up

    In my 'drunken stupor' i guess i didn't realize that there was already two pages, and just read your last post, south bronx. Didn't feel i should delete or edit my last, so I left it.

    I know what you mean about the mutts though. That's with anything though. If they can embellish, and like, that never happens at little bull-crap jobs, imagine how this looked in their eyes and in their brains . . . . . . .

    Wow, the oppurtunity for bullshiitting is endless.

    Be good! Your a class act bro.

    [ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: toneloc177 ]


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