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  1. #41
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    That's GEEZING fool to you buddy........


  2. #42
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    excellent post southbronx. I also have been watching and reading all the heros out there scrambling to get on t.v.or in the papers.This has made me sick from the week of 9-11 till now. You have put my feelings into words better than I ever could.Real firefighters do not brag or try to show up everyone else, they just do their work and than wait for the next job.You respond when ASKED,and you refer all communication to the dept. of record. stay safe southbronx, God bless you and all the brothers.

  3. #43
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    Red face

    As I read the MFN article, I swore I was listening to a couple of glory hounds! Thank you for your post SouthBronx. I too wanted to go, but only if asked. I liken this to sitting in your station and hearing a working job get tripped out in another town, so do you just go in route to their job? Think people!!!!

  4. #44
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    Southbronx, first my condolances to you and your department. I am friends with many from the FDNY. Second, I agree with your post and it has been long overdue. I am sickened by the outside glory hounds that have done nothing but brag about being on the pile. It is a disgrace and I am embarrassed by it. I try to stay out of all the hub bub and bickering on these forums but after I read the MFN article I could'nt hold back from emailing them. I received an instant, nasty gram back from the author defending his position and bravery, not to mention his personal attack on my experience with teaching the fire service in Rapid Intervention. I suggest everyone that is appalled by the article to email the MFN and give your opinion. This type of behavior in the fire service should stop. The ONLY true heroes of 9/11/01 are the firefighters of the FDNY and rescue workers that paid the ultimate sacrifice. Everyone else outside of the FDNY needs to take several steps back and shut up.....

    Jim Crawford
    Pittsburgh
    James K. Crawford
    Assistant Fire Chief
    Midway Fire Rescue
    Pawleys Island, SC

  5. #45
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    I agree with you SouthBronx! It is truely unfortunate that others seek to bring the spotlight on themselves. I had the privilage of coming to NYC the weekend of the 18th. I have nothing but respect for all in the FDNY, I made friends that weekend, that will stay with me hopefully for the rest of my career.

    I returned to my department, only to have my shop steward, ask me to try and get a discount on memorial shirts from E-226. I was shocked to say the least, words were exchanged, to put it nicely and the subject was dropped, 10 minutes later the same guy wanted me to give him pictures that I had taken. I guess after 18 years on the job this shouldn't amaze me but it does, especially from a union rep! He received the same answer of NO! Sorry this turned into my own silly soapbox. God Bless E-226 and all my brothers in the FDNY.

    The majority of my brothers in Missouri will never forget 9-11-01

    Stay safe Brothers

  6. #46
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    Southbronx - My heart is with you brother. The real firemen on this site know who the real heroes of 9/11 are. We will not forget.

    Be safe Brothers

  7. #47
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    Brothers...

    Thanks for all of the replies and continued support. I am slightly surprised at the number of responses and the interest shown. I just wanted to take a second to clarify a few things in the interest of fairness.

    I, along with most guys in this job, do not have a problem with "buffs" per se. My firehouse has a dedicated buff like most others in the Bronx. I have a hard time disliking people that want nothing more than to be in the firehouse and around firemen for the sheer love of the job.

    In our job, the term "buff" is used to describe anyone who approaches the job in a certain manner... including guys who are on the job. This is the "...seen it all...I was there...look at my scrapbook..." act. This, in and of its self, is not a bad thing. But when you combine this with an ignorance of how to step up and do the right thing for your brothers, THAT is where the guys in my job get ****ed.

    If you want to come to the house and hang out, take in some runs, thats cool... but bring cake for the boys, or some other gesture thats let them know that THEY are important. If something goes wrong at a job or a brother gets hurt... put the goddamn camera away. Because its THEIR house and their job.

    When you go to a job, and are out of position, trying to get in where the action is, instead of being where you are assigned and doing what the rest of us are counting on you to do, thats what we call "buffy". It shows a general disrespect for the rest of your brothers and a "ME" first attitude that my brothers despise. If you are truly busy or experienced, why do you still need to act like you have never seen a fire before? I love the guys in this job, not because of the number of fires they take in but because of the way they conduct themselves here and away from the job. Even though our fire duty here is "alleged" and "exagerrated". (sorry, I couldn't resist)

    Please understand that I was not attacking the organized buff community as a whole or anyone else that GENUINELY wanted to help out. Rather, I was talking to the "buffs" that put their personal needs above the good of my brothers.

    In regards to the WTC, I certainly did not mean to imply that a "pecking order" of sacrifice or heroism exists. I did not mean to put down the SINCERE contributions of any members from throughout the world that showed up after the 11th, or to ask for universal recognition that " ...we are hurting worse than you are, because its our city!" I have my own thoughts about taking it upon yourself to respond to any incident, but not strong enough thoughts to belittle any HONEST effort to step up... as alot of you did. Especially the fellas from Jersey City and the Island, who were so close to us and go there quickly.

    But why in the world would you publicly criticize the operation before it is over? If you didn't get to do a whole lot, as most of you didn't, you still did your job. FEMA guys here in the city from SOC are more than capable. So why would you think that they should watch you work? This is their home. Real firemen would accept it for what it is, keep their mouth shut and move on.

    I've got news for you... guys from this job, that went down to the site with the daily task forces the job set up, often didn't get to do as much as they wanted to either. But they did what was asked and moved on. Because THE JOB IS BIGGER THAN ALL OF US.

    My intended targets were the posers that are writing articles and making videos and doing the world tour deal. If you were truly here and truly cared, do you need a camera? Lord knows none of us does. If I or one of my brothers are at the site, and we see you posing for photo ops or video taping how do you think we feel? We have computers in NYC... we get the same magazines that you are penning your horsesh*t articles in... we watch CNN.

    If you can get credit or praise from your family, friends or close by community... take it, you deserve it. If someone is going to buy you a drink and listen to your tales of daring, by all means, have at it. If some chick will give you a shot because she thinks you saved the world...who are we to stop that.

    But for Gods sake, keep it quiet. We are only asking for respect for our brothers and their families AND for the living here who may be having a difficult time with the whole episode. Save the high profile stuff for a later date.

    To you other posers, that have your own motives, I hope you wake up one day and realize that this job is not a competition. The fireman in the biggest, busiest city and the fireman in the slowest, most rural area are the same man. Your level of activity, real or make-believe, will not secure respect from anyone. Usually we can tolerate your act. But when my brothers are hurting, and you don't seem to give a sh@t, then you offend all of us.

    Are any of my FDNY brothers out there? Especially the 1st, 3rd, 11th division and SOC, who took it on the chin. You must be feeling this even more than I.

    [ 11-30-2001: Message edited by: southbronx ]


  8. #48
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    Again, excellent post SoBronx. Well said and well done.

    You state plainly the real deal.

    Thank you, and keep posting.
    09-11-01:Never Forget

  9. #49
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    I too have seen some whom have praised themselves a bit much, or too much. But on this below -

    [quote] Originally posted by south bronx -
    These people seem bent on turning the events at the WTC into their own personal platform. Either they want to tell the world of all the daring, heroic services they performed there, they want sympathy for all of the mental and physical damage they incurred from their heroic service or they want to travel the country selling their story in magazine articles and seminars in which they relate their own personal sacrifices as well as illuminating the glaring tactical errors made by the clearly inexperienced and outgunned FDNY.

    In a job as big as ours, our members have contacts and friends in every corner of our country. It has been truly educational to hear some of the fables being spun throughout this great land. In these forums alone, I have seen several messages that contain the words "...I was there and..." or "... you wouldn't believe what I saw there...".


    Hey, I'll admit it. While I'm on my 5th or sumthingth beer (like, now), I'll put in my two cents, same as everyone. I'll tell those who want to listen a tale or two w/ little or no embellishement about whatever experiences that I have experienced. I guess to me, it's like free therapy. Yes, I was there at g/z. Wish nobody was. Unlike some fuked up a-rabs, I wish it never happened. It has affected me, and maybe by telling a few of the goings on, it's helpin me. So, although I do agree w/ you on people portraying themselves as the hero on a pedistal (which they did w/ utter bull-excrimate), I would disagree with the broad statement that those who were there are telling their stories to put themselves on a 'personal platform'. Some yes, but think of those who maybe need to get it off there chest, and when their wifes or families say, 'What's wrong?'. Do you tell them? or do you tell others who have been there w/ you and know what you're going through. I don't want my family knowing of the nightmare that we've gone through. So i say, 'Nothing'

    Be safe though bro! Need a butt and a beer.
    May God bless all the people and families who have lost
    their lives on 9-11-01, to those also lost on Flight 587, and to the rescuers who responded to both.

    "I'm not saying it's right, i'm just saying (the way it is)."

    FDNY-EMS - Still New York's Best!

    e-mail always accepted @
    toneloc177@firehousemail.com

  10. #50
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    Thumbs up

    In my 'drunken stupor' i guess i didn't realize that there was already two pages, and just read your last post, south bronx. Didn't feel i should delete or edit my last, so I left it.

    I know what you mean about the mutts though. That's with anything though. If they can embellish, and like, that never happens at little bull-crap jobs, imagine how this looked in their eyes and in their brains . . . . . . .

    Wow, the oppurtunity for bullshiitting is endless.

    Be good! Your a class act bro.

    [ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: toneloc177 ]


  11. #51
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    GODBLESS ALL THE BROTHERS OF THE FDNY

  12. #52
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    Hello everyone on the list! This is the guy that wrote the article for MFN (not MSN)!

    Since I'm obviously being judged and convicted over an article that I wrote, I thought I should come over and at least try to defend myself!

    Number one....MFN is The Maryland Fire Network. As the name implies, it's a Network of Maryland Firefighters! We are a pseudo news organization, that reports on Working Fires and Rescues in Maryland. Our medium of communication is Pagers and E-mail, which we send "Real Time" messages to. We also produce professional video tapes for training and other media purposes.

    I am a 17 year vet Firefighter Paramedic with a large Metropolitan Fire Department. I'm also an EMT-B and NREMTP instructor for Maryland. I'm telling you this, so you know where I'm coming from, not to look for more recognition!

    Number Two...I was working the day of 9/11/01 like a lot of people. My shift was 24 Hrs long. When I went home after that shift, it bothered me to know that hundreds of FF's in NY were not! When I arrived home, I decided to go to NY just to help out. NO GLORY, NO BS, just help. You know, serve coffee, whatever! What I didn't expect was to get in Ground Zero and help with the recovery efforts!

    When I wrote that story "MFN Responds to New York", it was meant to be a story of facts that occured during our trip. Words like "Strike Force" and "Dude" are words that we as a group, not the rest of the world, use in jest! Again it was the facts as they went down and I documented them!

    Believe me, AT NO TIME DID WE EVER LOOK FOR RECOGNITION! In fact, when I returned from NY a local paper had interviewed a guy that claimed to be there (and it was pure BS)! So much in fact, the paper wrote a retraction in the next issue. So I agree that a lot of BAD people are jumping in to look good.

    As for the Video...For what it's worth, all the money raised off the video goes to the NY FF Fund! Why? Because it was the right thing to do! It was something we did to help out with the little resources we had! So far we have sold 78 tapes.

    As for the pictures of the team, that too was not meant to be a "Hey look at me" it was to show our subscribers that MFN went to NEW YORK representing Maryland, not some Whackers trying to get a quick high! But in retrospect they could have been taken as "Glory Tripping" so they were removed!

    If my story offended anyone on this list or in the "Fire Service World" than I must apoligize. It was not intended nor written to be a Glory Trip for Me, My Team or my Company!

    However, don't think for one minute that I'm not proud of going there! I am very proud of my team and every person that went to Ground Zero! I met several professional Firefighters (From all over the Country) that went there for the same reason I did...."Because we just needed to be here!" Ask anyone that went! They'll tell you the same!

    In conclusion, I'm sure, no matter what response I post, my words will be turned around and used against me. So for what ever reason you have, stay safe and pray that this disaster NEVER BE REPEATED!

  13. #53
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    Southbronx,

    I'm just watching from the sidelines, you seem to have this all well in hand. Yeah, the 1st, 3rd, SOC and my 11th did "take it on the chin", but you lost as many brothers as the rest of us, didn't you?

    I've read the war stories. If you think back to the first week, not one FDNY brother spoke to the media, but there were a truckload of firefighter interviews. I just got tired of letting it **** me off.

    Someday this story will be told. There will be many versions. The only true story will be the one in your heart, not the one on your lips.

    Xellic, I must say, I'm a little suprised to see you here...you're on your own.

    [ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: E229lt ]

    [ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: E229lt ]


  14. #54
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    Xellic...

    First of all, thanks for having the stones to speak up for your outfit. You were probably caught up in the storm that was swirling without really knowing how it started. So I will thank you again for your appearance.

    However, there are some things you need to understand about this situation. Hopefully, this was a misunderstanding on your part, but you are dead wrong on more than one point.

    "...we just needed to be there!"

    Thats terrific that we were able to fulfill your needs. But the point you are missing is that its not about what you need... ITS ABOUT WHAT MY BROTHERS NEED! If you have to sit in your house, stare at the TV, and stew for two weeks.... THATS LIFE! The California Earthquake during the World Series a few years back made my little girl cry, but I didn't jump in my car and head that way.

    Your responsibility is to YOUR community, not OURS. Its one thing for the local guys to show up unannounced, but if every guy like you, within a 200 mile radius, that felt terrible, showed up, where the hell would we have been then? You make yourself available to us and then OUR bosses will decide if they need to call you or not.

    In times of crisis, you fall back to your basic responsibilities. If that involves answering a call for help from the FDNY, then get there as quickly as you can and do everything you can to help. If not, then protect your home, your family and your job. In both cases, you doing the same thing...YOUR JOB.

    I don't know if you know this or not but theyrecalled all off-duty firemen and cops in the city. Thats about 50,000 off duty members. You know where alot of them went? To the neighborhoods the are ASSIGNED to protect. Don't you think they "needed to be there"? They did their jobs and kept their mouths shut, because that is what our city needed them to do.

    So you showed up, you say with OUR best intentions at heart, so I will take you at your word. There are certain things you do and don't do in that situation. Leave the goddamn cameras at home. That doesn't sound the slightest bit disrespectful to you? We have no choice but to deal with the press and their games, but you should know better. I hope your job has not lost anyone recently, but if they did would you want us to show up and make home movies? And posing for shots with our tomb in the background is like a punch in the face to each and every one of us.

    If you want to raise money for us... sell T-shirts or hats like all the other stand-up brothers are. I guess the upside to your fundraising is that you have a handy little stocking stuffer for all your friends and family that have forgotten how wonderful each of you is.

    Also, whats with the text of the article? Again, I will take you at your word that all of the text was true. What could possibly be accomplished by naming my brother and describing his family tragedy for the world to read? He LET you into HIS world and that is the thanks he gets? It was bad enough that he was babysitting you guys when he wanted to be looking for his brother.

    The part about you and your crew finding body parts, "...tagging and bagging them" is pure buff horsesh$t. Again, if it is true, why describe it in detail? Could you think of a more RESPECTFUL way to describe it? How about not describing it at all? Oh, I forgot, you were doing it to EDUCATE the fire service. Do you honestly think there is a fireman in this world that needs you to tell them that there were body parts there? NO CLASS. God forbid one of our wives read that, or a friend of some deceased members...like maybe...me. What earned you the right to disrespect my brothers and their families?

    If you were troubled by "all the horrible things you experienced", and this is your way of cathartically dispelling it or "getting it off of your chest", I hope it worked. I also hope you learn something about how your actions affect other people. Next time, talk to your priest.

    As much as you may not want to believe this, it was not your tragedy, it was not your town, and they were not your friends. I realize that we are all brothers and that you may be hurt by our losses as most Americans are, but you deal with that by respecting OUR needs not YOURS. You offer support, condolences and you grieve. If you were truly concerned about us you would have taken off for weeks at a time to attend funerals, not to buff the Trade Center job.

    I know, I know...you were just coming to serve coffee. Good thing you brought all your turnout gear and cameras with you huh. Would have sucked to miss the job of the century. Just think how empty your life would be without the ability to say "...I was there!". But, thats what were are here for... to make buff fantasies come true and to help Americans deal with their feelings of helplessness in the wake of national tragedies.

    I guess the difference between your outfit and the guy from your hometown that told the bullsh#t story in the paper is that in your eyes you've EARNED the right to tell bullsh#t stories.

    Before you get ****ed, curse my family and say "... he's wrong, he doesn't get it!", take a second to remember, we live here, we were the ones you claim to have been helping and we are the ones you are hurting with your act. Unfortunately for you, in this situation, our perception of events is the reality.

    I started this message series in the hopes that the guys from around the world that meet here would get a view of things from our side of the fence. As I said before we appreciate all of the support we have gotten and love everyone that has travelled to our city to SINCERELY help us out. But you need to understand the effect that things like your website article and video have on the guys here who see them.

    If anyone has earned the right to do the things you are doing, it is my brothers that have lost everything and yet continue to keep giving all that they have. But you know what... it would never occur to one of them to do such a thing.

    [ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: southbronx ]

    [ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: southbronx ]


  15. #55
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    OUTSTANDING SOUTH BRONX, just outstanding. No other words come to mind.

  16. #56
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    Thumbs up

    I can't imagine ANYONE trying to "monday morning quarterback" a situation where two-110 story buildings come crashing to the ground. What kind of manual or textbook are some of these guys reading that tell them what the "correct" way would be to even think of approaching the scene that happened that day.

    We all have our stories of where we were that day. I work in the city and saw the first plane fly right by the window. I went to the closest firehouse and asked what I could do. The truck co. there were covering form Harlem. They stayed. They didn't leave their position even after it became apparent that alot of their brothers weren't coming back.

    When members of the engine and truck that belonged in the house started filtering in, covered in dust, tears in their eyes, " have you seen so and so" or "nobody has heard from the Lt."
    I realized this wasn't my place to be. As much as I wanted to help, I began to feel like I was intruding on something that had just turned very sacred.
    I don't even know what I'm trying to say. Go to funerals. Raise money so these guys kids have some sort of future, so they can see that the world over, firefighters take care of their own.
    Say a simple "how are you doing", the next time you happen to cross paths with a brother from the FDNY.
    To you, Southbronx, a sincere thank you and a heartfelt respect for the job you guys are still doing down there everyday, 24/7. I'm now working in a building right next to groung zero, and to see you guys still going strong, well, it's somthing to witness.

    God Bless
    Remember the Fallen

    P.S. to the guy from Maryland... STOP using so many damned EXCLAMATION points!!!!!!!!!!
    (sorry, had to get that off my chest,DUDE!!)

  17. #57
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    In response to the last message....

    My intentions were to help, no matter what people think. We were hoping to lend support while the 50,000 plus off duty members did the job of "removing thier own". As for the camera's, I know how you feel about them being in firefighters faces. This is something I have a problem with. Its tough to document a story, yet maintain the respect of your subject. So I guess I'll never be a reporter! If you look at the pictures you'll see that no close up's were posted.

    Lets clear up something RIGHT NOW! Regarding the Leiutenant "Baby sitting us", His name WAS changed to protect him and his family. Check it for yourself!

    When you say it's not my tragedy, I must disagree, I felt it like everyone else. In fact I did lose a friend (Citizen) working in the south Tower. Does that give me a right or permission to invade someones privacy to document this story? Nope! That's why we didn't!

    Look, I'm not going to try to bull**** you or anyone else on this list! We documented a story that was in our generation as big as Pearl Harbor. Did I go with my camera leading the way? Hell no! In fact we worked *2* in the compound before my camera ever left our vehicle. But when things quieted down, thats when I got the camera out and shot the destruction. In some peoples view, this was a monumental gathering of agencies from all over the world! That's something we all should be proud of! And it's something I know my friend would have love to have seen, but didn't!

    I have a question you! What gives Firehouse Magazine the right to run stories and pictures of the devistation as it happened? Tell me they waited until a certain time to run a story or didn't use AP (Assc Press) photos of firefighters crying and going through the motions days after the incident. Lets not pick on Firehouse, lets look and the others, Fire engineering, Emergency Mag, Ect. What gives them the right to run stories and show people at their worst. It sounds to me like its a double standard! They have reporters, photog's, assignment editors and Money making ideas, besides the ALMIGHT FREAKING TEE-SHIRT!

    We are a news agency, nontheless! We report on our community (Fire Service), just like them! And before you say, "Firehouse Magazine paid the price because they're in New York", well that my friend is bull****! They're making money hand over fist and don't think they're not! Just look and see what site your on RIGHT NOW!

  18. #58
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    I HAVE JUST FINISHED READING THE ARTICLE OF THE MFN MEMBERS WHO MADE THE TRIP TO NYC TO "WORK" AT GROUND ZERO, I MUST SAY I AM TOTALLY AMAZED AT HOW PETY SOMEONE CAN BE. I HAVE TALKED TO A FEW PEOPLE WHO WORKED AT GROUND ZERO , BOTH FIREFIGHTERS AND FEMA MEMBERS AND NONE OF THEM WERE THERE FOR THE GLORY, BUT TO DO A JOB. NOT BEING A FIREFIGHTER MYSELF BUT A FRIEND OF THE FIRE SERVICE MY HEART GOES OUT TO ALL THE MEMBERS OF FDNY DURING THESE PAST DAYS, WEEKS AND MONTHS SINCE 9-11. IF THESE MFN MEMBERS REALLY WANT TO HELP NOW IS THE TIME TO STEP FORWARD, TO ATTEND MEMORIAL SERVICES AND FUNERALS. IN EARLY OCTOBER I TRAVELED WITH FRIENDS TO ATTEND MEMORIAL SERVICES, ONE OF WHICH WAS IN ROCKAWAY, I WAS DISAPPOINTED AT THE TURNOUT, MUCH SMALLER THAN WHAT THE FF DESERVED BUT I UNDERSTAND WHY. IF ONLY THOSE "HEROS" FROM MFN TRULY CARED THEY MIGHT HAVE MADE A TRIP TO HELP BRING "CLOSURE" TO THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY NEED IT, THE FAMILIES AND FIREFIGHTERS WHO LIVED THE NIGHTMARE. I HAVE BEEN GOING TO NYC FOR OVER 20 YEARS AND HAVE ALWAYS BEEN TREATED GREAT BY THE MEMBERS OF FDNY. A SPECIAL THANKS TO THE MEMBERS OF ENGINE 314 "ON THE EDGE" IN QUEENS AND ENGINE 37 AND 40 TRUCK IN HARLEM FOR A PLACE TO STAY.

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    Yet another response....

    Just an FYI: The crews from MFN have attended several Funerals for the Firefighters. In fact, of our admin staff, at least half have made the trip, some several times!

    Can we all look at the REAL problem here! It's not MFN, it's the people that caused all this Bullsh*t to begin with! But just like good US citizens we crucify ourselves in the name of whats right! Lets hope those assh*les over the middle ast aren't reading these post's. This is what they love to watch and we're just falling right into it!

    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Amen to you South Bronx and thanks for all of your posts.

    MFN Firefighter or reporter? After reading YOUR article it appears to me you are more reporter then Firefighter which in my view totally discredits your comments of going to help Brother Firefighter's. I have not seen any evidence of Firehouse or Fire Engneering personnel posing on their websites or on the cover of any other magazine or news agency crediting their efforts of their own stories. Yes, they are there and they are reporting the stories of FDNY. NOT of themselves. Any reporting of specific details of any incident shouldn't be printed or video's made without permission of FDNY or any other jurisdictional Department to do so is disgraceful!!
    It is FDNY's incident period.
    They will share their story and the accounts of what happened when they are ready. After all they are the HERO's and the Victims of this Attack on our Country.

    GOD Bless FDNY and all of the Lost Brother's.

    Dave
    FTM, PTB, RFB.

    [ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: FF.1205 ]


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