Thread: ATTN FD EXPERTS

  1. #76
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    This whole forum is a perfect example of why the fire service, as a whole, in the U.S. struggles to move on year after year. This is a perfect example of why we struggle to get funding from the government. This is a perfect example of why politicians continually look to cut firehouses, and firemen from budgets so that they can spend money somewhere else. Why is this? Because, even after an event as horrible as this, we can't come together and present a united front. We can't let go of our petty differences. Until we can do this, we will continue to be trampled upon.

    Did this MFN guy go to NYC w/ the right intentions? I don't know. Who F'ing cares why he and his buddies went. They helped. I can't believe he's getting ripped apart for not handling it in the most perfect way possible. He could have done a lot of worse things.

    So, the point of this is, until we stop tearing each other down, and always trying to get one-up on the FF's from Maryland, or California, or fill-in-the-blank, how are the government and the local politicians going to take our needs and our funding seriously?

    Stay Safe

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    Xellic, It is FDNY! Not NYFD. Come on if you are going to bust people on not spelling MFN(MSN) correctly, check yourself. Don't come back on me about mine because I'm no reporter or claim to be.
    PA: I don't think that this really is a "petty difference" between firefighter's. I do agree that there truly are alot of petty differences but this is not one of them. This is out of respect and I have definitely learned that from this post.

    God Bless each and everyone of you!

    Also SouthBronx, Is there a way to find out more on memorial service dates?

    Take care of each other! Stay safe and thank the guy next to you. He'll know why.

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    SHC...What are you talking about. Did you read the Editorial? It is FDNY! I have no idea why it posted NYFD on the forum...I may have been typing to fast, but thanks for keeping the sh't stirred!

    Is this what forums are all about....Just keep slamming people over and over?

    Un-F'cking believable!

    Why don't you people get back to the original postings. Individuals going around the country sucking up as much as they can, in the name of 343 Firefighters, some of whom never went to New York! They are the True villians here, REMEMBER?

    Emotions are high right now from everyone, and the guys in New York need our support more than ever. They have a Mayor, who I thought was doing a great job, up to the day they ordered the firefighters off the grounds. That was the most F'cked up thing I have ever seen! I don't care if it cost's the US taxpayers 20 trillion dollars in resources, give the guys protective Bio gear and leave them alone! Don't these Assh'le politicians know, the Firefighters can't leave! To have ordered them off "Ground Zero" was a disgrace to every Firefighter in America!

    Have they allowed anyone (FDNY) back in, or is it just Steel workers and Investigators?

  4. #79
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    Yes, I did read the Editorial.
    I'm not stirring anything just keeping you straight. Damn, you are ****ed. On page three at the bottom of the page you did type it wrong. Sorry if you think I'm stirring. Just making a point.

    [ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: SHCoTrk531 ]


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    Hey xelliot----you kida sound like a politican to me-trying the ole 'I may be bad but so & so is worse" Your name isnt Clinton by any chance is it?
    oh yea !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    TO ALL OF THE FDNY AND THEIR FAMILIES:

    GOD BLESS AND KNOW THAT YOU ARE IN OUR PRAYERS!

    TO xellic,

    Keep digging, your hole is almost deep enough!

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    xellic, how many "last posts" do we need to endure?

    South Bronx: You should be a writer. Or maybe you already are.

    Phildabox: good point, we all know why they didn't go to the much-closer Pentagon incident. That says it all............

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    Grit.....Do you ever stop? I think its more like BNN says it all!

    For your information we did go to the Pentagon. But DC didn't lose 343 Firefighters, New York did!

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    Hmm..I finally tried to scope out this article but it has been taken down from the site for what I can only assume is damage control.

    On 9-11 my department dropped what it was doing, grabbed all of our gear and a truck, abandoned our town and sped to GZ without being called by the FDNY also....IN OUR HEARTS. In reality we stayed put and waited for our State FM office to call us and say that we were requested by the FDNY to respond, send resources or cover up someone else who had moved up. To do anything else would have been freelancing and leaving our community less protected. These MFN people may be a fire buff group but that to me doesn't sound like a USAR or FEMA team. I would love to spit acid at these people but enough has been said already.

    And I don't know what Jim Crawford said to this stem hoople Xellic to wind his top but the contact I have had with Jim makes me believe that calling him a biggot is off in left field. Actually Jim goes out of his way on his time off to teach other FF to save their own which is a hell of a lot better then speeding of Polaroid and note pad in tow to grab some chest thumping pictures and detailed accounts of "tagging body parts".

    On a lighter note, it was great last weekend meeting some of the FDNY guys up he'ah in Beantown for the "hawkey" games.
    Proud to be an American, Union Firefighter!

  10. #85
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    Trk531 go to the Firehouse home page and down about the middle and to the right hand side they have a box with memorial info. When you go to the site it list the FDNY member and the date of the service.

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    Mr. Goetz,
    First of all it is not a "website" it is a "homepage" which is supposed to inform the readers about oneself which is why it is called a homepage and not a website. My homepage tells people about me, if you don't want to read about me, then stick to buffing. On the other hand, my "website" which is stricly dedicated to firefighter rescue and survival for use by the entire country is still under construction and almost ready to open. It will provide "everyone", not "subscribers", full use to gain access to the most knowledgable RIT instructors in the country, RIT forums, training articles, and RIT vendors ever assembled in one place. All costs of this "website" are absorbed by "me", the biggot. I for one believe that in the fire service we are a unified group that believes in one another and in what we do. When that trust or unity is broken, such as in the MFN article, the group will stand up in arms. It's simple, all you have to do is read and emphasize with Southbronxs' posts, it couldn't be put more clearly. I for one have learned more about FDNY's feelings through this forum. The majority of the posts on this topic are not in MFN's corner, that in itself tells the story. My original email regarding my feelings on the article was to the contact us section of the MFN site. I simply stated that I felt the article was a disgrace and an embarrassment. I at no time personally insulted an individual, nor did it matter to me who the author was. I was answered back with a barage of accusations, insults, and profanity from Mr. Goetz. Therefore it is YOU Mr. Goetz, that started the ugliness. All you had to do was simply state your opinion to me in a civilized manner. But, as you have shown everyone on these forums, that is not a possibility with your "Hothead" personality. You my friend, need anger management sessions, not I. It is truely ashame that this type of person exists in the fire service. Pleeeeaaassseee, Don't contact my MOM about this, she will be sooooo upset......

    Jim Crawford
    FDNY Brothers-Rest in Peace

    [ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: PBFTRK33 ]

    James K. Crawford
    Assistant Fire Chief
    Midway Fire Rescue
    Pawleys Island, SC

  12. #87
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    Jay, thanks Brother for the backup. You know what I'm all about and it surely isnt about me. If I can help you out in any way drop me a note....

    "Down with Wackerism"
    J. Crawford
    James K. Crawford
    Assistant Fire Chief
    Midway Fire Rescue
    Pawleys Island, SC

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    Southbronx,

    I just wanted to clear up what I had previously posted. I was in no way defending that article. While I will never be able to know how you feel, I can sympathize with you. I completely understand how that guy and others like him would make your already terrible situation worse. My response was not so much to your posts, as to others on this board. Believe me when I say that I have the deepest respect for you and your colleagues.

    Sincerely,
    Nathan Moyer
    (BucksEngine78)
    IAFF
    PFANJ

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    I have to add my 3 cents worth (see my tag signature for the explanation...)

    I read the story and went on the MFN website to read Xellic's account of his trip to ground zero. In the postings here, I saw something to the effect of "What's the difference between Firehouse and other news organizations going to ground zero and publishing stories and photos?"

    The difference is... they went as a news organization. The way the story was written, it made it sound like the MFN crew was the cavalry coming to the rescue.

    I would have gone to NYC in a heartbeat had the FDNY requested help...so would most every other firefighter on my Department. Some of my friends and aquaintances did go to "Ground Zero". The difference was they were activated as part of the USAR teams and the DMAT teams and requested to assist the FDNY. When it was determined that the chances of finding survivors were little to none, they came home. They did not write about their exploits, nor did they search for the limelight. The local papers did do a brief story on them, and they all stated the same thing..."the true heroes are those who gave their lives to save others."

    I have done freelance writing and reporting for two local newspapers, so I know where I'm coming from on this matter.

    [ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Captain Gonzo ]

    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Cool

    Thanks for the info FFNOLA. I will check that out I have a couple of days off soon and might make the trip.
    (This is a loud applaud for PBFTRK33)very well said sir!!!
    Keep all of us posted on the site I will check it out. I'm sure there will be plenty of useful information on there.

    Be safe and thank the guy/girl next to you! They will know why.

  16. #91
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    [quote]SouthBronx asks- Where exactly did the call for help come from and who was it sent to? I respect the fact that you did what you thought a City resident should do, but the FDNY did not request that type of assistance. The only official request was for USAR resources, and of those only the dogs, listening devices and search camera people were extensively employed.


    This is just a point of information as it was told to me.

    As the events of Sept. 11 unfolded, a call for assistance was received over the police divisions teletype machine. I was informed that the call came from the Port Authority of NY & NJ. I do not know if it came from the PA's administration or the PAPD. Off duty Fireman and Cops were called in and sent. If this happened at my job it very possibly happened all over the NYC metro area.


    SouthBronx, I love that quote "Nobody Is Bigger Than The Job" or "The Job Is Bigger Than All Of Us" or something like that. It speaks volumes.

    Remember also that you have an extended family that wants to leave you alone to take care of your own business, but offers unconditional love and support if you should need it.
    DKK
    Truck Man
    APFD
    IAFF Local 384:


    "Above all, an assignment to a truck company should be considered a promotion."

    Chief John W. Mittendorf-1998

  17. #92
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    Southbronx -

    Right with ya, brother. At my department, we were put on standby by the county right after the attacks. We waited for a call to go and help. When none came on the 11th, we didn't go. We wanted to go, we ached to go, but we followed orders. We knew that if the FDNY really needed us, we would be called in.

    Instead, when FDNY and the city asked for firefighters to attend funerals and honor those who gave all, we responded at least eight times, attending funerals all over the area. It was an honor and privledge for us to be there. The one thing I noticed through all of it, though, was the attitude of the FDNY brothers. Throughout all, they treated us as if WE were the ones to be thanked for our presence. I had to explain several times that it was our privledge to be there, that it was an honor for us to give that respect, and that we would be there for whatever, and whenever they needed us.

    No one felt a great need to post the details of our trips on a web site, or seek out a newspaper to publish our memoirs, or take a camera to snap pictures of the tangle of steel and glass that held so many of your brothers. Each man had his own private, quiet recollection of what he saw.

    It was enough just to be there, to give a proper final salute and respect to those that fell, and to be whatever small comfort we could be to the families. We have no pictures, no videotapes, no written reveries. What we have we hold in our hearts, and we will never forget.
    "Let's roll." - Todd Beamer, one of a group of American soldiers who handed the terrorists their first defeat.

    Joe Black

    The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone (but you can borrow them )and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated (but then again, they just may not be thinking clearly).

  18. #93
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    Thumbs up

    AAAAAmen Southbronx
    May God bless you and all the Brothers and Sisters of the world.
    If you can't take the heat, stay off the truck!
    There When You Need Us!!!
    Firefighter Forever
    Charbo

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    southbronx, wonderful post. My thoughts are with FDNY and all of those who have had to deal with the horrible and heartbreaking job of Ground Zero.May your brothers above guide you in your journey.

    Lady.
    "Let every nation know..that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and the success of liberty"---JFK, Jan.1961

  20. #95
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    SouthBronx

    I am with BuckEng....God bless you all. NO one...Not a soul will ever know what you all have endured.

    We love ya.....
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  21. #96
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    Hey southbronx, let me start by saying my thoughts and prayers go out to you and all the people affected by 9/11, all the firefighters, medics, policemen, EMS, Port Authority, all their families, I cannot imagine what it is you are all are going through right now. God bless FDNY.
    I'm probably gonna get flamed real good for this but here goes-I was one of those buffs that responded to the WTC site after 9/11 as part of the FEMA USAR deployment, and one of the southeast teams you mentioned to boot. Was I there personally to help any way I could? Hell, yeah I was and proud of it. Was I there to tell FDNY the cavalry had arrived to save them? No, I didn't, we didn't, no one from our team did. The guys from our group went in to offer up any help we could and anything we were told to do by your Chiefs. We built hose bridges, sent up tents, even built a table for one of your command centers and after a while, we did some real work along side FDNY. I talked with every firefighter that I could to let them know we were there to do what ever it was to help them. We didn't have any answers, I wasn't able to make any sense of anything for anyone, but I did have a handshake and a pat on the back and a "I'm sorry for what happened..." or a "How you doing?..." and an ear to bend for anyone that would put up with me. Was I annoying? Probably, but almost every firefighter I talked with seemed grateful for me asking. Do I talk to anyone back home about what we saw? Only bits and pieces. I have written about my experience on these forums because this is where the folks are who know what it is that I've seen with my eyes, who can tell you with a nod or a look or a word that they've seen it too. Did I get a big write up back home after we got in? No. Did other guys? Yeah, I guess they did, but I'm not going to get into a p*ssing contest about it, I was one of the guys with the dirty uniforms while I was there and that's enough for me, knowing that I tried to make a difference. I hope FDNY doesn't think we're a bunch of jags for showing up, but that's what USAR does, shows up after disasters and tries to help. I'd like to know the name of the guy you mentioned with the FE article idea, sounds like a bad idea any way it's written. Another armchair quarterback dropping back for a touchdown throw. God help us. AAR, I'll probably be back to NYC again sometime, I'll go back to 10-10 and Rescue 2 and the museum and any other firehouse that'll put up with my cr*p and say hey and hope you guys don't hold it against me. You guys are the sh*t, as far as I'm concerned.
    Again, God bless you all and keep you safe.
    Lt. David Walters
    Rescue 10-A, Miami FD
    FLTF-2, USAR

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    Wow!
    South Bronx- what a great post. I am glad you said something. If there is anything else we can do here from Michigan let us know, but for now you will continue to be in our thoughts & prayers.


    FDNY- we will never forget 9-11

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    to rescue10lt, this whole post started after the chest thumpers from texas (remember dateline i think it was or 48 hrs)and a couple of other FEMA teams started taking bows, then one of the experts from virginia beach tried to have an article printed in fire rescue magazine ( it wasn't fire eng. southbronx). it was in no way directed at you and the fine men from florida task force 2, and i repeat task force 2 not task force 1 . to the others on this board, i worked with these guys from TASK Force 2 and they were directly responsible for us being able to bring home 5 of the seven brave souls from rescue 2 we lost on Sept 11 and never once sought out the lime light. i would like to publicly thank them for their greatwork. sir the men of rescue 2 are forever in your debt.
    bob galione rescue 2 fdny group 11

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    How the hell did this thing get started back up?

    Thanks for the replies and supportfrom everyone. If you remember, the initial posts were not intended to vilify the men that came here to help, did their job and went home quietly. The venom was directed at the self-promoters who were using the scene of our troubles as a springboard for themselves.

    Several of you replied and some even pointed out some interesting stories of heroism and shrines to individual greatness that we were unaware of. In their defense, I don't think that some of these people understood the effect that this act had on my brothers and their families.

    Yet, it continues. The web is a veritable "Hall of Fame" for the greatest of the WTC legends. I hope and pray that this self-promotion gets the fame and fortune that the promoters are looking for. In our case, it is very tough to see things like this and then to see the pain that STILL remains in our job, nearly four months later.

    The 1st, 3rd, 11th, 15th and SOC divisions are the true legends of this operation. Life may be back to normal in your hometown...but these brothers are still neck-deep in 9/11 and its associated nightmares. The rest of our job is being carried by these men and we owe them all that we have.

    Please remember that the view you get from the outside is rarely the truth. Several incidents have prompted strong responses in these forums. (i.e.- the "brawl" with the cops, the situation with the press/photo at 28&11). There are some real gentlemen from our job that view these forums. If you want the REAL story... ask one of them.

    Happy New Year

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    southbronx
    We can never completely understand, nor will we ever be able to repay the debt that we owe to you and your brothers at FDNY. Your bravery and honor is without question. Please feel free to call us for help where ever and whenever you need us.

    xellic
    You need to make a choice. Are you going to be firefighter or are you going to be a journalist? While these two jobs aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, in this case they are.

    You state in your web site that you arrived on the scene and advised others that you were firefighters from Maryland. Did you also state that you were Journalists? I doubt that if you had, that you would have been given access to those areas that you were sent to.

    If you have the trust of the public and violate it you will be subject to the penalties that law provides. If you have the trust of other firefighters, then you need to keep it and that means honoring those who have given everything to honor themselves by protecting those that they swore to protect. By writing and placing those images on a media outlet, such as a web site, you have dishonored their memory. You violated the trust that FDNY gave you when you were sent to the site to assist in the recovery effort.

    By now you must understand that frequently "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." If you published the information in an effort to instruct and assist those that were not there as a means to educate, then why are the stories and images on your website copywrited? Why do all the pictures have MFN all over them? Maybe you just did that as second nature? If so, then brother your further than you think from your firefighter roots.

    You can't play both sides of the fence and maintain your credibility as a journalist and a firefighter. Not on this one.

    On September 11, many of my fellow firefighters here in PA wanted to go and help out. However many of us did not. We (7,000 of us)registered with our state Emergency Management Agency and waited for the call that never came. Many started equipment drives that collected the many things that you and others in the recovery effort used. Many of us collected money and almost all of us wrote checks to the many relief funds that are assisting the victims and their families from this horrific event. But all of those firefighters and emergency personnel that I know, did what any professional did. WE WAITED TO BE CALLED. Because disciplined firefighters know that was their job. In this case staying put until called was what was correct, and it took courage to do just that. That includes protecting those we have sworn to protect. Our communities and our fellow firefighters needed us here. We were prepared to respond to New York if requested, but we also needed to protect our communities as well. It wasn't the popular or easy thing to do but it was the RIGHT thing to do.

    I sincerely hope that you reflect on the advise that others have given you. To deflect that advise because others are doing it, is like a small child explaining poor behavior because "everybody else does it". That doesn't work. Being a firefighter, a leader and a public servant means doing what is right and not what is popular or makes you feel good.

    Be a leader man, and take that stuff off your web site.

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