1. #1
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    Post Helmet Comparison Facts Needed

    I am trying to push going back to a traditional helmet. The help I am looking for is any hard data that can be used to convince the Chief and Safety committee to make the switch.

    I am not looking for testimonials on leather or anything else. I have worn them and love them. What i do need is any type of research that says why a tradtional is better than a modern.

    I have scoured the net looking for such a comparison and have not found it. Any help or direction would be appreciated, as well as anyone who has accomplished a similar task in their own department.
    Views stated do not reflect that of my department or local.

  2. #2
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    Thumbs up

    I do not have any hard evidenciary facts for you. However I just wanted to say that our Chief just decided to switch to traditional lids. Not only is he changing style, he is also changing color to black! Granted, they are plastic lids, leather is still better.

    Stay safe,

    *Mark
    FTM-PTB-RFB-EGH

  3. #3
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    I think you'd be hard-pressed to make the case that a Cairns 1010 will protect your melon better than a Metro. You don't say exactly why you want to convince the Chief but I'm guessing you just plain prefer the traditionals. Will he let you buy your own or do you have to wear department issue? Since the Chief's job is to spend the least amount of dollars to effectively run the department you could offer to pay the additional expense for a traditional (above the cost of the salad bowls) out of pocket. If he wants uniformity among the ranks you're probably SOOL.
    _________DILLIGAF

  4. #4
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    Thumbs up

    The brim on the 1010's are larger which helps to keep embers, etc. from firefighters faces and necks. Other than that you will be hard pressed to find any more supporting facts, been there brother.
    Firefighter/NREMT-P/Public Safety Diver
    May we ride into the darkness only to return as safe as we started!!

  5. #5
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    No info. I just want to wish you good luck. I hope yall get them. There are many things that are traditional in the Fire Service. Our Chiefs won't even consider them, notta, zilch, no way. Don't know why. They just won't!
    Saffell
    1 Corinthians 1:18
    For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

  6. #6
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    Post

    i dont think there is any info proving that traditionals are better because i dont think they are, they all have to meet the same standards to be approved the only differnece is the way they look
    we just made the switch in my department after almost ten years wearing turtle shells we finally have black traditionals on the way(although they have goggles) but ill take goggles with traditional over faceshields with turtle shells
    good luck and be safe
    9/11/01 forever in our hearts

  7. #7
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    You would be hard pressed to find evidence that a traditional is better, if anything you might find out that those funny looking euro lids are probably the safest to wear since they cover your ears
    Now personally I don't like any other style but traditional but this reasearch may come back and bite you.

    I can tell you that we purchased SAFECO helmets one year (they are salad bowl style) and found out that they melted the inner liner shell without any noticeable damage to the outside. 12 of 22 purchase had done this during regular burnhouse training excersise and actual fire.

    Other models such as bullard did very well.

    I think most style traditional, modern, or even euro pass all standards well if not they would not be purchased.

    Try pitching the chief on comfort and preference.

    TRAIN LIKE YOU FIGHT; FIGHT LIKE YOU TRAIN.

  8. #8
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    we got the traditionals and i would want the wildfire style helmets.
    I've got Morning Pride LiteForce(which is a pretty nice helmet)
    and my chief and officers got Morning Pride Big Ben 2(WANNA TALK ABOUT A NICE HELMET)(if it wasn't white i'd steal his helmet )

  9. #9
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    we got the traditionals and i wouldn't want the wildfire style helmets.
    I've got Morning Pride LiteForce(which is a pretty nice helmet)
    and my chief and officers got Morning Pride Big Ben 2(WANNA TALK ABOUT A NICE HELMET)(if it wasn't white i'd steal his helmet )

  10. #10
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    I agree that finding evidence to prove tradtional are better will be hard, I also think proving the modern style is better or safer will be hard also. Maybe you are looking for the wrong info. Try to find out why the modern style (salad bowl as stated earlier) is safer. The only difference that I can tell is the weight. I have worn both, the do the job they were designed for. The cost is probably what the chief is looking at, if that is thwe case you could be in for a long battle. As for uniformity, dealing with that in my department right now. Good Luck.


    Let's be safe out there

  11. #11
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    Angry

    Good luck!!! We are trying the same thing with our department. We put a forum on here a while back titled modern vs. traditional and got a lot of feedback. The best thing to do is contact a couple distributers and get a couple different helmets for your dept to try on. We did this and we are strongly considering the paul conway traditional helmet and we got a great price too. But like I said try on a bunch and let the guys on the job decide. Good luck convincing your chief, I don't know why the chiefs don't like these so much they are a big moral booster if the guys want them.. Let us know how things work out.
    "PUT THE WET STUFF ON THE RED STUFF"

  12. #12
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    I'VE GOT THE ANSWER YOU"RE LOOKING FOR!

    If your chief is a dollars and cents kind of guy (like most are)tehn tell him leathers are cheaper. How can that be you ask? Well lets say a leather cost $300.00 and a plastic ugly one cost $200.00. (I really don't know what they cost - just using round numbers). The ugly plastic one will have to be replaced every 5-10 years depending on your dept. The leather will last you your whole career. Now lets do the math:

    Plastic and UGLY - 2-4 x $200.00 = $400.00-$800.00

    Leather - 1 x $300.00 = $300.00

    This calculation is based on the average fire service career being 20-25 years.

    Hope this helps.
    IAFF member, Love this job! Remember the oath!

  13. #13
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    Hey guys,

    Thanks for all the input. Yes I am partial to the traditional style. I consider myself pretty progressive but I think some things should not be messed with. All of you are right it is a tough case, especially when you talking about changing over 800+ guys. I am going to our union safety committee with this and have the support of the majority of them. I have 1 A/C on my side and the chief likes the looks of them. I prefer leather but if i can get a composite traditional through, personal leather would be easier to throw in.
    I have the cost issue nailed because the ben 2 is cheaper than the metro they are buying now.
    I also have another angle I am working. We have our 150th anniversary coming up in 2003 and we would like to bring back one of the most recognizable symbols of our job, our helmet.

    Once again thanks for all the input.

    [ 12-14-2001: Message edited by: CFDENG23 ]


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