Closed Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
  1. #1
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Lansing, IL
    Posts
    15

    Question ARE YOU A REAL COMPANY?

    I was just wondering if the mid & small departments who have trucks feel that they are properly trained in truck co operations?

    Is this a common problem? Do mid size dept's run a true truck company, or is it just another piece of equipment to ride on?

    Mike
    Not necessarily the views of my dept., village, nor residents.

  2. #2
    Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    South Central, PA, USA
    Posts
    84

    Post

    I hear what your sayin'. Out of the 7 truck houses in my area, we have 3 that are actually proficient in their jobs. The others range from doing a decent job to just having the label and the unit in orider to justify the #'s.
    These views/ opinions are my own and not those of my employer/ department.

  3. #3
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Pacific Northwest, WA, USA
    Posts
    106

    Post

    LANSING T 107,

    I'm currently a member of a volunteer FD north and east Houston, Texas (it is an "uncorporated community"). The area is suburban to rural with a cluster of large commercial properties (i.e. Home Depot, Wal-mart, supermarkets and "taxpayers") in "downtown". We also have several garden apartment complexes and schools. We run out of three firehouses (stations), have about 30 to 35 active members and cover 90 square miles.

    Our "ladder truck" is a 65 ft telesqurt. There are about half a dozen members who are 1) profficient in and 2) enthusiastic about TRUCK COMPANY OPERATIONS. We all have truck company backgrounds from previous departments.

    Our chief looks upon the truck as a "parade and funeral" vehicle and as a result does not utilize the truck to its fullest extent. Part of the problem is he is not well versed in truck ops and the local belief that "when the stick goes up, the building comes down" (in other words a ladder truck is strictly a defensive tool not an offensive tool). He has the truck on an initial alarm for a commercial fire but NOT on the initial alarm for a residential fire (he says "wait for the 1-11, then roll the ladder")

    Even more fundamental, there are several members who believe routine truck ops (such as venting windows, cutting roofs, opening up and thorough overhaul) inflict un-necessary damage to the burned structure. We (the truckies) are slowly showing the importance of good truck work. There are even a few chiefs in neighboring communities who will special-call our truck (if only for additional manpower. At least that's a start).

    While frustrating, we are waiting for the day when the truck (and the truckies) will be recognized for the roll truck companies play in every day operations.

    Like the man said "LET'S BE CAREFUL OUT THERE"

    Regards to all,

    Jim Boyle (aka 1261Truckie)
    Captain - Porter Vol. Fire Dept.

  4. #4
    Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    51

    Wink

    Too many . Just because one has a ladder/truck/tower does not mean they are a "truck company." The truck is just one part of the whole equation. The hard part is training and desire to do things right.
    Keep Safe!

  5. #5
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    War-Town
    Posts
    143

    Post

    well we are located in a pretty good size town but surronded by rural areas. We end up going out to rural areas and rural fire stations end up coming to us. We run the only ladder truck in the whole county most of the time we go to rural areas they do not even make use of the truck.

    Most companies only have the truck on an intial alarm in thier first due if the buiding is commercial, they are so focused with putting water on the fire they dont do anything else. We hear stuff all the time saying hey the building is only one floor what do you need the truck for.

    So I see two differant style out here the rural focus on water, and the more urbanized veiw of using the truck and squad, neither are wrong just differant. rural ares have to pay more attention to getting water because it is more difficult for them to do with out hydrants.

    [ 12-13-2001: Message edited by: ggtruckie ]


  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    Chesapeake Bay
    Posts
    284

    Post

    I don't think it's a reach to say that most of the Trucks in America either arrive with not enough people, arrive too late in the initial minutes of a fire to perform the most important Truck functions, or don't arrive at all.

  7. #7
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Lansing, IL
    Posts
    15

    Post

    I must add to my topic....

    I must ask, when your first due engine arrive one scene, do they pull right in front of the blgd, or do they leave room for the ladder?

    2nd question? Mid mount or rear? I vote rear, due to its reach and you can back it in.

    Thanks,
    mike
    Not necessarily the views of my dept., village, nor residents.

  8. #8
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Pacific Northwest, WA, USA
    Posts
    106

    Post

    LANSING T 107,

    Regarding the addition to your topic, our first arriving engine takes the front of the building (or the driveway which ever gets them closer), the first arriving tanker pulls up right behind the engine, the second arriving tanker positions right behind the first arriving tanker. Then there are the POV's parked all over the place.

    When the ladder (a 65 ft rear mounted telesqurt)finally arrives, it's parked at the end of this daisy-chain/congo-line, thereby negating its effectiveness as a ladder truck.

    As I said earlier, truck ops is a distant concept down here.

    Regards,
    Jim Boyle (1261Truckie)

  9. #9
    Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Ghetto, NY
    Posts
    59

    Post

    Texas, you are a better man than I am. I would be tops on your Chief's NO Christmas Card List for sure.

    Reminders;

    The address belongs to the Truck. Meaning, pull the engine past the fire building. Yo can stretch hose all you want, we all know you can't stretch a ladder.

    Anything LESS than 75 feet is a waste in an ariel device. Remeber, we don't only have to reach up, but out,over,AND up. I would rather have my taxes raised to pay for the extra 30 feet of lifesaving ladder, than to not be able to reach a window with people showing.

    Correct, the piece itself is just another tool a Truckie uses. There are so many important tasks that need to be done on arrival. For those of youse without a dedicated Truck Compnay....when do your roofs get opened? who searches the floor above the fire, and when? Open windows? Is that left to the "outside"members, because anyone can do it? Sure I can sit at a command post and throw rocks at the glass to, but does that clean the window out? NO. All functions of a truck company must be carried out immediatly by trained, confident members to ensure the safety of civilians, as well as our "little" Brothers inside on the nob.


    Happy Holidays Andy Fredericks.......God Bless You
    FTM - PTB

  10. #10
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    25

    Post

    How about this.....there is not a Ladder within 50 miles of our town (perhaps a 95'platform this year for us ). However at every Fire we perform Truck Co. ops and do them reasonably well. Sure we can't operate wholly as a Truck Co. should but we do have "truckies" that are well versed in forcible entry, venting, etc....S o is it the apparatus or the training that make the truck co??

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber
    gfdtrk4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    The southern shore of beautiful Lake Michigan
    Posts
    250

    Wink

    Good question Lansing!!!
    Was it a recent incident that set this post in motion?
    Truck work is truly "art"
    An "art" that is often overlooked and often looked down upon(?), as you can tell by the replies posted above.
    The idea that if you use a truck then the structure will be lost is just funny, makes me laugh!
    I might be tempted to tell that individual that the reason the bldg. was lost may be due to the fact that the truck co. was not utilized properly ...or because he was giving out the orders!!!! (ya didn't hear that from me)

    Hey T107....Did you make it out to the job last night in Harvey?

    [ 12-14-2001: Message edited by: gfdtrk4 ]

    FTM-PTB
    trk4

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Halligan84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Blackwood NJ, USA
    Posts
    816

    Post

    What you arrive on has nothing to do with how you perform! If you have members who know how to force entry, search, open up and support a fire attack, it doesn't matter if they get out of a pick up. Getting the job done is the only thing that matters. How many times have you heard guys make excuses about the fire being "too far gone" or "overwhelmed" us, when you know some ventilation or the right size line would have gotten the job done. My feeling is, if you don't know truck work, you really don't know firefighting.

  13. #13
    Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    35

    Post



    [ 01-23-2002: Message edited by: Schmidt ]


  14. #14
    Forum Member
    dragonfyre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Birdsboro, PA
    Posts
    967

    Post

    Hey Poodle: Sounds like you don't like my old friend Jack the Chief. You do point out a good problem with quints, what are they? Are they a pumper with a stick (YES)or are they a ladder with a pump. Maybe in the cities with paid departments that's not too much of a problem but in the burbs outside of Philly everyone is getting squirt fever and now comes the problems. When it goes out, what is it? We have a 75' former FDNY Mack Aerialscope and there is no problem in knowing what it is and what it does. And yes we do leave room for it to come in.
    It was at a major fire (7 alarms)in our county Tuesday night and was working for a while when their chief decided to move it. After he moved it and we asked for a water supply he asked where the pump was. He got us one in a hurry.

    [ 12-15-2001: Message edited by: dragon-fyre ]

    Steve Dragon
    FFII, Fire Instructor II, Fire Officer I, Fire Appartus Driver Operator Certified
    Volunteers are never "off duty".
    http://www.bufd7.org

  15. #15
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    770

    Unhappy

    Is it possible for two guys to be a truck company? That's the norm here in the suburbs of Providence....

    [ 12-15-2001: Message edited by: CollegeBuff ]


  16. #16
    Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    87

    Angry

    I'm in a vollie dept. in suburban new york. We have 6 fire houses that make up the dept, in one house we have 2 ladder trucks, a spartan/LTI mid-mount 93' bucket, and a segrave rear mount 100' stick, we also house a utility/air truck. Our fire co. has about 30 active members and we stress to get all trucks out at all calls. The problem we have is that our engine co's roll light and arent fully dressed before getting on the rigs. They claim that they are always 1st due. The first thing they do is not hit a hydrant or a standpipe but rather run in with forcible entry tools, and they dont know how to use them.
    We pride ourselves on the size of our membership and how well trained we all are. Its hard to do our job when we have to push through the crowd of hose humpers and on-lookers at every call. Its critical to have a well trained truck, or at least designate certain positions on the rig to take care of thoes tasks.
    " truck till the casket drops "

    www.lynbrookfd.org

    My views and opinions do not represent the views and standards of the Department or Company that I belong to.

  17. #17
    Forum Member
    MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Division 24
    Posts
    4,360

    Post

    Hey GFD. Lansing Truck 107 was operating at the Harvey 3rd alarm. It was a big fire but definately a surround and drown. The HFD attempted to make an initial interior attack, but the acting Shift Commander got them the hell out of there pretty quick. That fire had way too much of a head start. 107 is not pre-piped and there were some water supply problems. A firefighter was at the tip and he took a pretty good pounding even with SCBA. A tower ladder probably would have been a little more effective. There were multiple aerial devices in use and around here an extra alarm fire stretches these towns thin. I thought Lansing did a great job in a difficult situation. Truck work has improved ALOT around these parts in the last 10 years or so. Not just aerial master stream operations but "real" truck work. I know the GFD has plenty of experience in that field. Mike if you were on that fire,I am sure you learned a thing or two. Keep up the good work.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber
    gfdtrk4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    The southern shore of beautiful Lake Michigan
    Posts
    250

    Post

    Thanks Mike.
    I heard about the fire in Harvey when it went to a Second. Unfortunatly I was in St.Louis at the time!!! I couldn't even get over to take some pictures!!! Next time for sure!
    FTM-PTB
    trk4

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    DixieFire53's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Gulfport MS
    Posts
    161

    Angry

    My department has 12 Engine co., 3 Rescue co. one tanker and 3 command units for the 3 districts. The Sickening thing is we have a 135-ft ladder truck with usually 1 main on it. They try to keep two on it but during the day the second man is a shift fire inspector and is gone form 8-5. The usual work done by a “truck co.” is done by either the rescue unit or another engine co.



    [ 12-17-2001: Message edited by: DixieFire53 ]

    DixieFire53, Deputy Fire Chief FF/EMT-P, Local 272

  20. #20
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    retired to the US Capitol Aug 26, 1814
    Posts
    325

    Post

    TWO TRUCKS IN ONE HOUSE!!!!

    Why not loan one to FDNY?

    Man, it's staggering the difference in funding. Sometimes I drive a '66 pumper first out. That's not a typo.

  21. #21
    Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    35

    Post



    [ 01-23-2002: Message edited by: Schmidt ]


  22. #22
    Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    87

    Post

    from GRIT :
    TWO TRUCKS IN ONE HOUSE!!!!
    Why not loan one to FDNY?

    if you were refering to my post, i believe the simple answer is that a majority of the FDNY officers and members want nothing to do with the vollies one county away, im not saying all of them, but i heard some pretty harsh stories when long island vollies went to cover some city firehouses. they are union and we are scabs, in some of their minds.
    " truck till the casket drops "

    www.lynbrookfd.org

    My views and opinions do not represent the views and standards of the Department or Company that I belong to.

  23. #23
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Schenectady, NY
    Posts
    464

    Post

    Tom you know what is even worse is that they sometimes forget that their roots were started in the volunteer service.
    Stephen J Bourassa
    Latham FD (NY)
    member since 1969
    challenge competitor since 1993

  24. #24
    Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    87

    Post

    thats right fitguy,

    some of our best men in the company are or were city guys
    " truck till the casket drops "

    www.lynbrookfd.org

    My views and opinions do not represent the views and standards of the Department or Company that I belong to.

  25. #25
    Forum Member
    firemangeorge's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    266

    Post

    If operations on the fireground are be performed properly, you must know whether you are performing truck or engine duties before you ever put on your boots.
    Here in Cincy, we dispatch a minimum of 2 trucks and 2 engines for all first alarm boxes. Each company on each box has specific initial assignments;
    1st in engine, get water between victims and fire on fire floor,
    2nd engine, back up line behind first,
    1st truck - two men to the roof, two to the fire floor to search,
    2nd truck - two men above the fire floor to search, two to the roof
    These are basic assignments and are of course variable depending on conditions on arrival, but trucks must operate intially as trucks, and engines as engines. That way everyone knows exactly what they are to do.
    All incomming engines are required to secure a source of water (grab a hydrant). In double houses, the engine usually gets out ahead of the truck (engineers rarely wear bunkers), so the truck is given room to pass at the hydrant, putting the truck in front of the building. Second truck will try to approach from the opposite direction where possible.
    Performance of the assigned task is critical, especially where lives are in danger. If you are outside trying to decide to do truck or engine work, you are losing time.
    We operate the same way at vehicle entrapments.
    The engine is assigned patient care and scene safety (stretch a line), the truck begins extrication ops. This keeps everyone concentrating on a specific task. Once a District Chief is on scene, he may alter assignments and/or request additonal companies. The truck will switch to assisting once the rescue company arrives and takes over extrication.
    If you have a truck company and your chief is failing to utilize/man them properly, he is short changing the public that depends on him. All of the stuff they teach in fire school, they teach for a reason, it has been proven to work. Trucks(truck ops) are not an extra, they are a necessity. Hose crews cannot be expected to do search and rescue and ventilation AND put out the fire. It is too much.
    Wakter Chronkite once said this:
    "People walk by the fire house and see ten guys in there playing checkers, and are upset that they are paying ten guys to play checkers. But when their house is on fire, they wish they were paying thirty." This is a case where the public do not know what is best for them.
    See You At The Big One

Closed Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register