1. #1
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    Exclamation Junior Members Sleeping in the firehouse

    My chief has been doing me a big favor...in our bylaws it states that junoir members shall not bunk at the firehouse...that has been the case until resently. My chief has been letting me and and another junior member sleep at the firehouse when we don't have school the next day and as long as the duty offuicer knows and there is a regular member stay in the firehouse tooo. Many regular members are bothered by this. And say that is is against the rules and I shouldn't be sleeping there. the 2 junior members sleeping at the firehouse are the 2 most active junior members in the Department. know what we can and cannot do on the scene. What should i do...should I stop?...the Chief says that he is going to bring it up at the next board meeting.

  2. #2
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    Rules are rules, right? What happens when the trouble-making junior wants to sleep at the firehouse? What happens when when a junior gets hurt and the lawyer says, "Your Honor, it states right here in the fire company by-laws that no juniors are allowed to sleep at the firehouse."

    Another thing to consider is child-labor laws. Does simply being at the firehouse count as work? If it does, then juniors are limited to the number of hours they can "work" (be at the firehouse). There is too much to consider. This is certainly not just, "the Chief is doing me a favor." Either follow the rules, or go through the stated procedure to try to change them.

    Stay Safe

  3. #3
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    I would have to say your going to have to stick with the rules on this one. I am also a junior firefighter and am always running into problems with child labor laws. The truth is there is nothing you can really do to change a law. My best piece of advice is to just keep on counting the days untill you turn 18 like I am. Sorry

  4. #4
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    see lately i was thinking about starting a jr firefighter club at our dept but i got mixed emmotions. the good side (we REALLY need recruits) and hopefully once most of them turn 18 they'd join up. but on the bad side you get little issues like this on that bother normal members. I remembered when i was that age (15-16) so edger to get on the F.D. the guys said just hold up a little while. so i came back it was near the end of my end of my senior year(i was 18 then) then they said i want you to wait and graduate and start college before you join. So at the start of my Freshman year in college i joined. now a year and half later. still the rookie and still getting picked on.

  5. #5
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    Wink

    I am also a Junior Fireman. We have the rules of spending some amount of hours at the firehouse. We have a choice if we want to spend the night when there isn't school the next day. The Paid or Volunteers dont care as long as we don't sleep where they sleep. So to me I would wait until your chief says something because you said it is in the laws.

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    If its in the by-laws then you have to live by that. The chief has no authority to override the by-laws.
    Stephen J Bourassa
    Latham FD (NY)
    member since 1969
    challenge competitor since 1993

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    Talking

    It is at times like these that I like living where I do... I can work full shifts on days I don't have school, as long as I have the shift captain's permission... However, while up there I am expected to do everything a regular firefighter is expected to do from daily chores to calls.... with the usual exceptions of no interior attack and stuff like that...

  8. #8
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    Exclamation

    The Chief...help right the bylaws...do you know what the by-laws are??? They state what you can and cannot do in the fire house....the by-laws in any department are sbject to change...and The Chief if he wanted to could eliminate the board of Directors and then he would be the only one in charge of the by-laws...and as for the junior members getting hurt....We couldn't be there if we weren't under the insurance...the insureance doesn't say that between the hours of 11:00pm-5:00am no junior member under 18 can't be in the firehouse...that is a departmental by-law...so there couldn't be any law suits.

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    And as for the trouble making Juniors...there are not aloud to stay at the fire house...It's just me and one ther junior....Just us under special permission

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    Truckie465 said:
    "We couldn't be there if we weren't under the insurance...the insureance doesn't say that between the hours of 11:00pm-5:00am no junior member under 18 can't be in the firehouse...that is a departmental by-law...so there couldn't be any law suits."

    I understand that you're under 18, so I'll try to go easy on you. First of all, anyone, at anytime, can sue anyone, for anything. Secondly, we're not talking about insurance here. Junior FF Billy, who is at the station, sleeping overnight, which is against documented FD policy, sneaks out of the bunkroom while everyone else is asleep, and cuts his arm off playing w/ the sawzall. You'd better believe that there would be a law suit coming out of that.

    Truckie 465 said:
    "And as for the trouble making Juniors...there are not aloud to stay at the fire house...It's just me and one ther junior....Just us under special permission"

    Ah yes, the chief picking favorites ... I think this has led to more firehouse brawls, fights, you name it, than anything else. That seems fair, we'll just let the chief pick and choose who can stay overnight. That's just opening up a whole world of problems.

    Stay Safe

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    So what rules are you willing to break next?
    IACOJ Agitator
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  12. #12
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    Thumbs down

    Sorry guy, but rules are rules. You may think that your chief is doing you a favor, but I believe he is doing you a disservice along with the rest of the department. How do the other juniors who are not getting special treatment from the chief feel about your being allowed to break the rules. This is sometimes the sort of thing that sparks resentment among individuals. I can already hear the other Jr FFs calling you and your bud the chief's pet. Truth be known, the adult staff is probably not crazy about the rules being broken for you either. They may not mind your presence at the station, but I doubt they are too happy about the rules being broken for you or your friend. Someone has already asked the question, what rules are you willing to break next.

    -----------------------------------------

    FTM-PTB-RFB

    [ 01-04-2002: Message edited by: PyroSlayer ]


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    Truckie - Can I assume that this is a Volunteer FD that you are involved with? Next question is how does your chief become chief? We elect ours very year and if he did what your s is doing he would not be elected ever again. If he does not treat everyone the same he is open for a discrimination suit and the ACLU just love these things.
    Stephen J Bourassa
    Latham FD (NY)
    member since 1969
    challenge competitor since 1993

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    I'm a junior as well, and I'm a firm believer that by-laws are by-laws. If they let you sleep overnight at the firehouse, though I don't really recall hearing volunteer houses having bunks, then what is next? Letting you go on interior attack? I know it must sound really cool to do it, but it just isn't right, just stick it out until u become a regular member then u can sleep there all you want.

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    Rules are Rules I'm afraid and until and if they are changed you and the other junior need to follow them. The Chief can not control the By-Laws with out the membership and he can't "Just change the rules" I have to admire the juniors wanting to "Sleep-In" but until those rules change there can be sticky messes you guys can get into if god for-bid something happens. ~ Hell, consider yourselves lucky the Juniors in my department aren't allowed to respond after 10pm on school nights and 11pm on weekends because of boro curfew
    ***The Opinions expressed here are strictly my own and do not reflect those of the Department to which I am a Member ! ***

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  16. #16
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    Get the rules changed... Until then, stop doing it. If the rules are established, the Chief should not break them either. Is the rule in writing? If so then get it changed. If it has just ben an unwritten accepted policy, then work to re-condition people.

    I do not have a problem with you staying as long as you know your limits and what you can and cant do. But....agree with other...rules are rules..
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  17. #17
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    I could swear I replied to this post, there must be another floating around. I can see how the other guys are upset over the chief specifically going against the rules, so it`s probably time for a change. At the next meeting, bring it up, get the backing of the other officers, and obviously the chief, then have the proper board write up a revised set of rules for Juniors who want to bunk in.

    Those who don`t seem to like the idea of Juniors sleeping at the firehouse, I don`t see the big deal. Juniors are members too, they have a right to use the station, including the bunk room, and the right to be there if they want to get on some calls, an accident with the sawz-all could happen at 3AM, or 3PM. As long as things stay within the rules, there isn`t a problem. So Truckie465, stop sleeping there for now, see what kind of support you can get and like I said, bring it up at the meeting.

  18. #18
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    Exclamation

    To FUTGUY51-
    This is a combination department...we have some paid and some volunteers...our Chief is paid as with our leutenents(sp) yes..we have bunk rooms..2 male and female...we just spent over 4.3 million on 2 hew buildings...

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    Red face

    Whahooooooooooo

  20. #20
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    Truckie465,
    I cannot begin to impress upon you how thin the ice upon which you tread really is.....
    With issues too numerous to jump off into, I'll just leave it at this: Go with the bylaws, and save EVERYONE involved the need for Migraine-strength excedrin.
    Oklahoma Bound!

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    ...this really sounds like a pretty simple problem to solve. Amend Dept. by-laws to give "junior members" the right to spend the night in the firehouse. Next, when I was a Law Enforcement Explorer Scout in my youth, not only did my parents have to sign a "permission" form with the B.S.A., but ALSO a seperate form from the local Police Department absloving them (the City) from ANY liability from me being hurt during "ride-a-longs." This sounds like the same situation. The 11(p.m.)-7(a.m.) or the "power-shift" (7p.m. to 3 a.m.) where the best to "ride along" with. And I did them as often as possable.

    I was in the station; in the patrol car; in the jail. Didn't really matter whether I was awake or asleep (yes there WHERE times I dozed-off on the 11-7 shift,...usually ended by a SHARP application of the brakes & a question by the officer like "...I've been shot,...where are we???")Learned REAL quick NOT to do THAT!

    So what's the problem? Have an Attornney in the town donate his/her time to draw up a waiver to hold the Department non-libiable for any mishapes while the "junior" mewmber is "volentering." End of problem. Yes, there are laws to hold departments liable for "problems", but the nice thing about the law is, we can personally (or through our parents, if under age) EXCLUDE ourselves from them. All it takes is a little piece of paper.

    I say, give them (junior members) the experance of being woken up at 3 a.m. responding to an EMS call of a drunk, fat S.O.B. feeling "chest pains" and finding that he just needs to take some TUMS to deal with his heartburn. OR, the plesant experance of finding a D.O.A. on the toilet at that hour. Of course there is NO better way to educate a young person aginst "drinking & driving" than the 2:15a.m. DUI wreck call.

    I say, FIND a way to help these young people fulfill their dreams. It CAN be done. Just remember we were ALL their age once. What would YOU have liked done for YOUR dreams?

    Thanhs again for all you people do. God truly does smile upon those who help others. Be safe ya'll!

  22. #22
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    Lightbulb

    WOW

  23. #23
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    Cool

    You know I agree with DenverFarmboy. Let them really know what they are getting themselves into. The best parts and the worst.

    We have around 10-15 cadets on our department. They are treated like our probies. We are a combo department. They better be sharp and know what they are doing or they get sent home. Many a Cadet has been sent home because of a attitude problem.

    As for this rule. The Fire Service is nothing without firefighters following rules. I believe you should follow the rules. Get the chief to change it and work out something that everyone can agree to.

  24. #24
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    It's kinda weird that this topic came up in the forum. Our station just voted this past month on not allowing juniors to stay at all even on weekends. In years past juniors were allowed to spend the night on weekends ansd whenever school wasn't in session. This was mainly for liability reasons. After thinking this over I realized that our newer juniors with the exception of a few are only here to hang out and socialize. They and their parents have no idea what really goes on at a fire other than what they see on T.V. I was a junior for 2 years and just got into the senior company so I know what they are going through, but I along w/ most of the former junior members can from a long line of firefighters and knew what this job was all about and take it very seriously. These newer juniors think this is a place to hang out, socialize, & wash their cars. Now dont take what I am saying the wrong way I know alot of members in my department that can in knowing nothing and are some of the most seasoned of firefighters all it takes is a little bit of maturity and respnsibility to get anywhere in this line of work.
    If you cant take the heat then stay out of my way.

    These are my opinions and dont reflect the view of my company.

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