Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
Closed Thread
Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    24

    Question Gogles required?

    My dept. just baught us all new gogles to replace our visor shields on our helmets. I hear that it is now required, becuase the visors don't provide enough protection.
    Is anyone else swiching??


  2. #2
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Lightbulb

    we have recently switched over !

  3. #3
    Junior Member fire266's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Central KY
    Posts
    9

    Post

    I am amazed at the “hipe” of the goggles. I was on a FD in VA for 9 years and some of our younger guys saw the ads for goggles in Firehouse Mag. I do understand the benefit of goggles in non- interior fire fighting situations. BUT now wait a minute, to remove the face shield from a helmet DOES take away from the protection of interior structural fire fighters protection! The face shield provides protection to the face and the mask of the SCBA your wearing. Everybody has seen the burnt face shield of fire fighters in training and real fires, if that shield wasn’t there, your mask takes that heat. Why expose your mask to that extra heat for no reason! The face shield provides protection from heat in an interior attack, which also protects your SCBA mask.

    Now why do the goggles meet NFPA standards, I don’t know, the NFPA sub-committee on the standard on helmets does include members of the helmet manufactures (I’m pretty sure of this) and obviously they want to sell more equipment. Now I’m not trying to say they did something wrong, but (heck) this seams simple to me, taking away the face shield protection (in interior attack) is wrong! I know some helmets have the small eye protection shields only, but I never agreed with this. (of course they never asked my opinion either)

    Heat comes from the higher part of the structure your in, even shields that are not pulled down in the proper placement do provide a barrier between the heat and your SCBA mask. Now goggles can NOT provide this same protection, we wrestled with this and let the younger members try the goggles without the face shield, I saw good fire fighters change back, the goggles were not helpful in interior attack and did not perform as they had hoped.(they did like the goggles on car wrecks to protect their eyes, but in structural attack they took more heat to the face)

    I have not heard of any change in the NFPA standard that requires the goggles in interior fire attack! Surely the goggles are not meant to be pulled down over the face shield leaving exposed areas of the mask and blocking the view. I do believe that a combination of the goggles and the face shield can be used to better protect fire fighters, the goggles can be mounted to the helmet, they can be deployed in non- interior fire attack (car wrecks, forcible entry, etc..) and the face shield used in fire attack..

    Anyway check on the “requirements” to remove the face shield and use the goggles! A lot of this is my opinion and some is based on my experienced watching fire fighters that tried the goggles.
    My thoughts
    Michael W. Gorley C.F.P.S.
    SAFETY FIRST! / Certified Fire Protection Specialist (NFPA) /Fire Fighter

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Westchester Co., NY USA
    Posts
    567

    Post

    266, you have some valid points. I don't like either. The face shields are garbage. Big piece of plastic that most weren't even rated as being "safety lenses." The goggles to me are uncomfortable, and do not seal to the side of your face correctly. That's why I carry an actual pair of safety goggles in my pocket. But I have to disagree with your opinions about the heat exposure. I as well as most of my dept. have borque shields. The rest have goggles and a few stragglers have full face shields. I am also a fire instructor and have melted my share of face shields betwen burn buildings and fires where you wish you could have sunk the floor 6 inches. However, I see no validity that the shield makes any difference when it comes to heat. With borque shields you mask has no extra protection. If you have goggles your mask has no extra protection. If you don't pull your face shield down over the top of the mask you have no extra protection. The masks are designed to take heat. And yes heat rises and banks down to the floor. But there isn't going to be much temperature difference between the top of your helmet and the bottom of your mask. Or if you are staring face to face with a couch fully involved and getting a direct blast of radiant heat. The only masks I've seen pretty close to being melted are ones where they where exposed to a flashover. And even then the lenses were in decent shape and the rubber seal for the face melted. And like you said, if the shield melted, your mask is still getting exposed. Not to mention that if the shield does start to melt, that is a sign that you should be heading out. The only thing I can say about goggles, is from what I have seen over the past couple of years is that they do not scratch as bad as the full face shields. Which also have a tendency to start to "yellow" when they are exposed to sunlight over an extended period of time. Another downfall of the goggles is they don't cover your face like the shields, but then again, the shields were just plastic, and I've seen a piece of plaster split one in 2. Which my answer to goggles and borques are, don't look up with your head, use your eyes.

    ------------------------------------------------
    The above is my opinion only and doesn't reflect that of any dept/agency I work for, deal with, or am a member of.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Fairbanks, Alaska
    Posts
    108

    Post

    There are about a half a dozen members in my dept that replaced their visors with goggles, but it is not required for us.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    32

    Cool

    Yeah, I'm like one of the few people at my house that wears the visor. Where I was in Florida no one in the county had goggles so this visor/goggle thing is all new. Could you wear both if you were not working inside a structure?
    Feet Don't Fail Me Now!

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Points unknown
    Posts
    52

    Post

    I switched to goggles about 6 months ago and I like them. Our dept. only gets about 10 fire calls a year, but we get a lot of mva. I think the goggles are a lot safer when dealing with jaws. I think there is to much space under a face sheild for objects to fly up and get into your eyes. Most of my dept. still uses face sheild, but most of them use safty glasses underneath the sheilds.

  8. #8
    Senior Member postal79's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    central new jersey
    Posts
    109

    Post

    our department startied buying all new helmets with goggles instead of faceshields about a year ago, my helmet last year had a faceshield on it and i have my own goggles, that i use for ,MVA,overhaul,forcible entry. but i always pull the faceshield down to cover my mask. this year all officers are switching back to traditional helmets w/goggles. i wanted to buy my own faceshield mount it, and keep the goggles in my pocket so i have both, but the chiefs dont want us to

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    ST.PETERSBURG,FL,USA
    Posts
    202

    Post

    Why don't you guys flip over a couple of pages and check out the post "nfpa goggles on helmets" by guardangel. The nfpa standard is confusing, but NFPA 1500 and NIOSH both nail it pretty well. Good luck on your crusades.

  10. #10
    Forum Member firemed9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    76

    Post

    my original 10-10 had the faceshield on it when i got it. the faceshild melted right up when it was exposed to its first fire. after the dept replaced the shield, it was still useless, i wore goggles for over haul b/c stuff came up under the shield, i wore goggles for extrication b/c that is our dept standard. so the shield was useless. my leather has always had bourkes on it, at least they stopped some stuff from coming down on your face. i have always carried safety goggles, until i recently put ESS goggles on my leather. i love them, the fit well, they havent melted yet, and they dont fog like most goggles.
    Loo
    Lieutenant / EMT- Paramedic
    Protective Services Officer

  11. #11
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    6,413

    Post

    I like the goggles, especially on traditional helmets. They make them look not as goofy and even though they are not perfect...they do provide better protection than the shields. The flip downs if placed right on the helmet do provide good protection but youu have to remember to keep em clean and they are not approved as "eye protection." Also...the goggles can be removed once you buy the helmet and placed in your pocket to protect them from damage and used as needed...

    Stay safe
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    ST.PETERSBURG,FL,USA
    Posts
    202

    Post

    I see that the other post is no longer with us, so I'll try to make this short as possible. Am Natl' Standards Inst is referred to by both OSHA and NFPA to define eye protection (ansi z87.1). There are 2 types Primary- goggles or your faceshield on the scba and Secondary-faceshield.
    NFPA 1971 4-2.2 helmet requirements- requires a faceshield, goggles or both.
    NFPA 1500(1997)States that an scba facepiece can constitute eye protection. In section 5-10.3 it states that in the hazard area w/o facepiece goggles shall be worn. It uses ANSI z87.1 as the standard.
    Federal OSHA standard-29 CFR eye & face protection-1910-133 require ANSI z87.1 eye protection be worn.
    Sooooo... The standard for secondary eye protection is NFPA 1971-2000 (for the faceshield).
    The standard for primary eye protection is ANSI Z87.1 (for the goggles), and one or both of those is/are required on the helmet.

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    S.E. Idaho
    Posts
    915

    Post

    Looks like I got here too late. Thanks for the references Blacksheep, that is what I was going to point out. I personally do not see that there is a thermal difference from the inside of the shield and the outside. I do not belive that will provide you with much more then false security. I use the shield for overhaul if I am not wearing SCBA. I do not trust the shield on extrication. I was injured L.O.D. last year on a tool job. The seal in the tool broke internally and blasted me with hydraulic fluid. The fluid burn to the skin was something I could live with. The fluid in the eyes (because of lack of proper coverage from the shield, it was down) was pretty intense. I spent the night in the Emergency Department flushing eyes. They ran nearly 10,000 cc's of NS through them. The fluid ate the reflective material and other parts of the turnout pretty badly. I am a firm beliver in goggles!

    [ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: mark440 ]

    FTM-PTB-RFB-EGH

  14. #14
    Senior Member apatrol's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    165

    Post

    We use face shields for interior fire attack and switch to googles for all other functions that require eye protection... We have had a problem melting the googles and getting them filled with crap (ie sheet rock, embers, insulation, and other junk) we are now required to carry them in a bunker pocket until needed.

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Schenectady, NY
    Posts
    460

    Post

    Our FD just had a visit from the OSHA inspector back in November. While we were cited for a few things the face shields were not included. So in NYS the shield do not appear to be on their way out just yet.
    Stephen J Bourassa
    Latham FD (NY)
    member since 1969
    challenge competitor since 1993

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    the heartland, USA
    Posts
    121

    Post

    I have tried different combinations, and my favorite is the "bourkes" with the goggles in a safe place(and they are rarely used). I had some problems on extrications with the goggles fogging up. I'm sure there has to be a remedy for this, but I was so disgusted with their fit I have not looked for one. My dept. still issues the faceshield. I have heard people say that putting your shield down while going in is a good idea, I disagree. I found that the heat got trapped between the facepiece and the face shield and eventually started melting the facepiece. Yes the shield also got melted badly! I have never melted my "bourkes"!!! My advice is go with what you like and makes you the most comfortable...

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts