1. #1
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    Post Chief Officers wearing turnouts on the scene?

    I have been to many fire scenes in the last couple of years and I have noticed that many times the chiefs aren't wearing turnout gear. Usually it can be seen hanging up in the back of thier Suburbans and they can be found wandering around the scene, sometimes even standing on the front porch of the fire buildng, without even so much as a helmet on. I was wondering if anyone has seen this and what thier thoughts are. I for one feel that even though that chief will probably not have to go into that house, the fire scene is of course dangerous and turnouts should be worn. Do you all ever see chiefs with no gear on commanding a scene?

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    Our department does this on occassion too. Our one safety officer (we have two) usually has not problem telling our Chief to get his gear on. Our Asst. and our Captain are both interior guys so they are usually in gear and inside at a house fire..however, sometimes on highway calls and stuff they don't have their gear on. Our Captain almost always wears his gear. We have gotten better about this recently...most likely it will take someone getting hurt before people realize just how dangerous our job can be...I am very safe at calls and am surprised at how lax some of the other guys are about things. Like they think they are invincible or something...I know better.
    Never forget those who went before and sacrified to make us better and stronger as a fire service and a nation. 09-11-01 forever etched in time and our memories. God Speed Boys!

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    Yes I see It too often leading by example starts at the top how do you speak to a ff about PPE when command ignores it I've made ff's leave the scene until they are dressed properly. If the chief won't wear his gear then how can you inforce the rules.Plainly put its poor leadership
    Try complaining about some fictional ff and make coments like where do they get the idea they don't need gear? Good luck
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    i have seen this many time at the scene. then at the meeting the cheif is the first one to say somthing about everyone else wearing thier turnout gear. they should lookat what they are saying.
    well hopefully attending hocking college soon for firefighting and emt so i hope to be on a full time dept soon.

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    Angry

    (first off...not sure what that face was....)

    Our chiefs normally always have their gear on...the only occasions they dont is when they have to run the truck due to lack of personnel. we have more problems with guys wearing just boots and a coat and hat, or just pants and a hat, or whatever, the line officers normally are not a problem

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    If I am first arrving on the scene of an MVA I will go and asses victims and do a quick triage if there are mulitple victims and vehicles. Once I do that and give the incoming units their assignements I will go and put it on. On the fire scene I will once again always have it on after a quick size up. I do beleve that it is a good thing to wear and we do make our members and officers accountable for not having it on.
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    Why is it important to have interior firefighter protective equipment on if you're standing in the street? I can see a helmet and reflective vest being a good idea, but I think bunker coats and bunker pants are unnecessary.

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    Angry

    Daysleeper, you've hit on one of my pet peeves.

    It seems where I'm a volunteer that it's the "in" thing for the Chief or command officer to wear as little fire department clothing as possible. When it's volunteer departments you are talking about, that means there is no way of telling that the person is even a member of the fire department except for the portable radio they are carrying around! In my earlier years in the fire service, I was on a fire department while in college that had a simple rule: EVERYONE had to have on some type of gear to identify themselves as a firefighter, even if it is only a helmet.(makes sense to me!)

    I have been on many incidents over the past few years where incident command has been established and the command officer is wearing no gear or anything else to identify himself as a fire department official - if it a serious enough situation to establish command, wouldn't you think that he should at least put on the "Incident Commander" vest or something!?

    Now, when you are talking about actually being in and around the fire scene (or other incident) it makes no sense to me that some people don't care to take the time to wear the proper protective equipment - doesn't matter if it's a Chief or a line officer or a 'back-step' firefighter (now I'm dating myself - been quite a while since we rode on the back step). I always try to have the proper protective equipment for the scene/location that I'm in - that way, if I get injured, when the question is asked of me (and it WILL be), "was all the proper protective clothing being worn at the time of the injury?", I can answer in the affirmative. Cover your behind.
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    Gah, fyreman answered your question in the last 6 lines of his post.
    FTM-PTB-RFB-EGH

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    our chief wheres his bunker pants and boots and white helmet at the scene, as ic he stands back from the dangers and does his job,if for some reason he must participate hes got his bunker jacket in the tahoe, on top of a backup jacket and pants and boots. when he responds to station to make sure we have suffecient manpower he wears his pants if driving or puts on his gear thats inside the station if riding officer or the back.
    Thanks,
    Scottie Schmidt JR (junior fire fighter

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    this is a problem in my book. Everyone on the scene(unless they are hurt) are in full gear.I hate those guys just think that they have power that safety issues don't apply to them.
    I'd not saying not only this is a safety issue plus it's setting an example.

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    Lead by example....Wear it
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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    Okay, if I'm up and awake then everyone needs to be up and awake too, or maybe I should say if I'm wearing my bunker gear....
    Come on, our gear doesn't have a vapor barrier just to identify you, it is to protect you. Wear it when your in or around the fireground, but it does little good in the command post. However, safety and sector officers should be bunked out along with anyone entering the fireground.
    We've all seem them, whites shirts on scene without any gear, and all I can say is safety aint doing their job! If you call them on it most will gladly gear up.

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    Angry

    RORY

    you hit on the head If I am up than everyone else is going to be also.
    same goes for PPE if I must have mine on then everyone else does also that is the SOP's of the department if you don't follow it don't show up!!!

    It is common to find the DC wearing a SCBA on a working fire, in the early stages.

    Just my $.02
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    Red face

    Sometimes I think they believe the portable radio offers them a magic shield that will protect them from harm.

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    Our bunker gear is designed to protect us during interior firefighting. Unless your IC is not where he is supposed to be...most of the time it would be unnecessary to have all that gear on. Down here in the south it would probably be more dangerous to have his bunker gear on. At best he would lose 20 lbs of water weight and have to go to rehab with the rest of us...at worst he would stroke out and die in the street. Our SCBA is designed to protect us too...should he go on air while standing in the street? He an exposure also...maybe we should wet him down???

    Let's use some common sense. Should he be wearing a uniform that makes him readily identifiable as a firefighter/IC? Yes. Should he have a helmet on? Sure, in case a high pressure hose breaks.... Should he have interior firefighter protective gear on? Not unless he plans to venture into the collapse zone or into or onto the fire building....where he shouldn't be...

    I agree w/ Rory that your sector officers and safety officer should be bunked out. They will be in vulnerable positions. In most incidents the IC would not need to have bunker gear. Can someone come up with some "what if's" where it would be necessary??? Sure, I can think of some myself. Can we not have a blanket SOP that dictates that the IC have all their gear on at every fire? I'd hope so. Are we adult enough to realize the IC's job is different from ours and does not require the same tools, therefore, eliminating this "lead by example" argument? God, I hope so. Do you guys carry a clip board in with your first hose line??????

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    I would have to disagree with most of you. gah74 is correct, if your chief is the IC then he should be outside at the command post. Their is no reason to wear protective clothing in the street. I don't know about your area but in late June July and August it can be in the 90's with 90 + humidity. Why put anyone through that weather in gear if you don't have to?
    If you are saying "what if" then the chief is in the best place in an emergency. The ICS system must remain in place for the emergency to go smooth. If the chief isn't wearing gear then it should help him stay at the CP.

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    Is it just me or do Chiefs ONLY put on bunker coats an' them shiny white helmets when the T.V. cammeras show up? I always found it a little bit pretentious for them to be standing around 50 to 150 ft. AWAY from the fire scene and dressing up like a "real" firefighter. Unless they are ACTIVLY directing their firefighters "upclose-&-personal" in the face of the beast, they remind me of Generals wearing flak jackets & helmets (with pistol belts) giving press breifings in the rear areas! And seeing how the Chiefs usually arrive in their air condishioned, luxuary cars AFTER the fire is out, it only looks like (2 me) that they have more in common with strutting peacocks than "real" firefighters.

    Just my two cents worth, though.

    Thank you all for the job you do! Be safe.

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    I think it is impressive to see a Chief Officer in gear on a fireground or emergency incident.

    I think if they are in the hot or warm zone full gear is appropriate. In the cold zone or at a remote command post then helmets and coats are appropriate...At least helmet and a command vest. Something that identifies them and their function

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    Farmboy, most chiefs were line firefighters long before you could drive a car. So they are "real" firefighters. Show some respect, they have made it to the end of their time on the job, will you?

    To slightly amend my earlier post, if the chief wants to sweat his *** of, that's fine with me. But he shouldn't have to at a command post.

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    If you arent a Chief, why would you care what a Chief wears? Put your gear on and get to work. Don't worry what the Chief is doing...He's smarter then you ....
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    I either heard or read a saying I like to use but do not know who said it to give them credit..."A chief at a scene not wearing safety gear is a highly informed bystander"...

    I also agree with the lead by example.

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    i would have to agree with what localprezmike just said, get your job done and don`t worry about the chief, he isn`t going in with you is he?

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    Lead by example? Of course. Obviously the firefighters on this posting do not entirely agree in their opinions so some will not agree with mine. Look at the job of the chief officer. In most cases we are talking about the chief being the incident commander.

    My job has changed in the time I have been on the job. As a chief, my job responsibilities are many but most important is FIREFIGHTER SAFETY. As the IC can I really effectively manage, direct, and account for the personnel on the scene while running around the incident full pack? Some will argue yes and I am not going to argue. However, can I do it more effectively in a stationary location away from the "hot zone" taking information from the company officers and formulating the stragey and tactics to most effectively mitigate that incident? I think so and that does not require bunker gear but it does require experience, training, confidence and tools. Like pen and paper or computers, or whatever the particular system uses.

    Either way, leading by example has many oportunities. A firefighter is compelled to always observe his/her officers throughout their career so they can lear what to do and what not to do. One can learn as much, probably more, from the bad ones. I miss wearing the gear and "getting some" but, my job is now different.

    Leading by example also means "attitude, composure, command presence, confidence, etc... Treating people with respect. Leading by example means 1. tell me what you want, 2. train me to do it, 3. give me the tools, 4. get out of my way, 5. tell me how I did. As a chief, I trust my personnel to do their jobs so I can do mine. I don't need to wear bunker gear in the hot zone to do my job. My job is different.

    With all due respect...
    Just my opinion, not my organization's, for what it is worth.

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    My Dad`s the chief, and he`ll always put his jacket, and helmet on, pretty much no matter what. Whenever we have something of signifigance, I always try to get him to throw his hitches on, but usually he takes the stupid boots out and walks around like that, lol.

    The old chief used to always wear his gear at fires, but if we went to a school, or home alarm he`d just walk in with his portable. My Dad says, if everyone`s got it on, so do I. I bet if we get a fire in the next few weeks he`ll have those hitches on though, because it`s freaking cold out.

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