1. #1
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    Post SQUADING OUT AN ENGINE

    OK, solid topic here I think. What tools would you add to the regular engine tool complement to consider it as a squad? What tools are essential to giving an engine the ability to do truck work? What tools would be nice to have, but aren't a neccessity? Let me define squad...I'm using the FDNY definition, meaning trained to handle both engine and truck duties, sort of a wild card on the fire scene.

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    Well my engine is Semi-Squad. It is set up as a typical engine with water and CAFS. But it carries a roof saw, and also a electric K-12 type saw and ground ladders. We also have a Powerhawk Jaws system, for LIGHT rescue and to asst. our rescue company if need be. It can be seen on the website at Norwood Fire Dept. it's a 2001 Pierce Lance 10 man cab.
    This is your brain... Pierce
    This is your brain on drugs... E-One

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    in addition to the engine equt i would have a combo tool, air bags, ram, hand tools, ems gear, saws (k12 and sawzall) imager, basic truckie gear....bottom line, take what you will need to do all the jobs expected but dont overload your rig! best of luck

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    The most important thing is to have five or six well trained, physically fit firefighters and an officer. Without them the rig may as well stay home.
    DKK
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    "Above all, an assignment to a truck company should be considered a promotion."

    Chief John W. Mittendorf-1998

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    7tuwer, promise me that was a joke?

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    the7tuwer that must be one bigass truck...I am not sure we have all that equipment on our ladder

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    REMEMBER K.I.S.S.(Keep It Simple Stupid)
    Bars,hooks,sledges,saws(w/all type blades),
    vice-grips w/no less then 6' of chain attached,
    rope (utility &life),lock-pullers,therm-camera,
    a good tool box,a few salvage covers,a cutting
    torch,lots of wedges (on yourself & rig),
    handie-talkies for everyone, & lastly & most
    importantly:A well trained & experienced crew w/
    good bosses!

    Too much more & your bordering on being a "wanna-
    be" Truck &/or Rescue Co.

    Just my 97-cents short of a $1.oo worth of Misc.

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    My point is why would you carry all that equipment on one truck. What if it goes out of service. How many of these trucks do you have? Do have a large tax base? What kind of water supply are you using to flow 7 attack lines and two remote deck guns? Where do you store a large water tank and 7 ground ladders. I can understand different setups depending on what kind of calls you get but geez your truck sounds like over kill.

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    THE WAY IT WAS DONE IN NY,FULL COMPLIMENT OF TRUCK TOOLS. ALSO CONFINED SPACE EQUIP. HIGH ANGLE EQUIP. RIGGING EQUIP.AND A SEPERATE RIG (BREAD TRUCK) FULL OF HAZ MAT EQUIP. THE SQUADS CARRY ALMOST ALL THE TOOLS A HEAVY RESCUE WOULD CARRY. THE MEMBERS ARE TRAINED IN THE SAME CLASSES THE RESCUE COMPANIES ARE.

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    OK, lets talk forcible entry. To get access past most of the locks out there today, what am I gonna need? I want to be able to open most every lock out there, but I also don't want 50 tools...gimme 5 tools you would want in order to get past every fence and door out there today.

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    I probably shouldn't join this bickering, but I'm going to anyway. I did not see dual ladder racks on any of those engines, nor did I see 8 ground ladders. I saw perhaps 3. And do ya really need those fancy fold-out steps to help drag yourself out of your Cadillac cab?

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    Better make sure you have that hose clamp readily available. Anytime ISO comes around here thats one of their main concerns. HAIL HAIL THE 7TUWER, THE KING OF THE EXTERIOR ATTACK !
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    Here Ya'Go 117,

    Try this link for the trucks 7tuwer is talking about.

    http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Trails/6658/pics.html

    Takes a while to load...About 600 pictures to look at.

    By the way... Whats a tuwer????

    Jim

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    Boy, someone is a little touchy!!

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    Hey larry, Oops the7tuwer,

    What fire department are you on these days?

    Just curious.

    Thanks for the info.

    FyredUp

    If you don't want to say on the boards you could e-mail me and I will keep it confidential.
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  16. #16
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    Angry

    (Note: I have deleted all my off-topic comments and invite others to do so also. I'll be glad to resume a discussion of anything off this topic via e-mail or private message.)

    Moe Collins
    Probationary Firefighter/EMT
    Washington Twp. Fire & Rescue
    Toledo, OH

    [ 01-13-2002: Message edited by: WTFD FF 10 ]


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    I knew I could get you to crawl out of your hole. I dont recall ever mentioning any fire department.YOU my man,are what we all aspire to be.Its funny that State Farm dosent even use ISO ratings anymore. My problem with you is that there is no room for argument with you in any aspect of firefighting and fire politics. You talk down to firefighters who may not have the latest in floodlight technology but who fight fires more then most of us do.But then again, YOU are the expert. Firefighters put out fires. Fire engines only assist in the process. I will take one of your so called "freelancing" firefighters with a garden hose anyday, over some wise-*** know-it all who has an answer for everything.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    YEP.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    DAMMIT bitches! Cut your bitching! I just wanted to talk about a piece that can do engine and truck work, and it turns into "As the World Turns"!? Shut the F*** up, and be grown up for once. I come on this forum to get away from the petty BS politics and get real answers. Unfortunately, you guys are too busy berating each other to even discuss the topic you are talking in. You SUCK.

  20. #20
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    CIFD88, You're right and I apologize for going off topic. I have edited my first post and deleted my off-topic comments. I let my Irish temper get the better of me My e-mail is available for anyone that wants to continue our off topic b*tchin'

    Now on to my questions,

    My department is going to be replacing our "heavy" rescue in the next couple of years and a rescue-engine is a hot topic of debate.

    How much more expensive is a rescue-engine than a standard engine? I realise it's going to vary by manufacturer but does anyone have any ballpark figures?

    For those that run rescue-engines, do you find that equipment storage is a major problem or can you carry just as much as a regular type squad can?

    To clarify, I am interested in rescue-engines similar to the Pierce that Kentland has or the FDNY Squads. Anything bigger would be too large for our area's streets.

    Moe Collins
    WTFD Probie
    Toledo, OH

  21. #21
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    CIFD88,

    Squading out an engine, comments on topic:

    ISO has a specific set of tools and equipment that must be carried in order to qualify your apparatus as a service company. That may be a place to start.

    Otherwise, my humble opinion is this. Truck company equipment, 2 sets of whatever forcible entry tools are popular in your FD, saws to include a roof vent chain saw, K12 or similar and a reciprocating saw, vent fan, salvage equipment, a very generous selection of hand tools and power tools, at minimum a combination tool and medium sized ram for auto extrication. If this vehicle will have a specialty team ( dive, high angle rescue, confined space) whatever their equipment needs are should also be carried.

    Now reality sets in...how much compartment space do you have and how most efficiently to use it. If this is going to be a new rig, spec compartments and shelving to fit what you want to carry. I am on a career FD where our quint is beginning to look like that kitchen drawer we all have...you know the one you open and rummage through for 5 minutes trying to find something. Poor planning for equipment storage is a nightmare for the life of the apparatus.

    Good luck, we are right now looking into speccing a midi style pumper / squad apparatus. (I should add this rig would be for my volly FD not my career FD)

    Take care and stay safe,

    FyredUp

    [ 01-13-2002: Message edited by: FyredUp ]

    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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    Now completely off topic:

    to the7Tuwer,

    You are correct I do not list my FD on my profile. I have told many people who my FD is when they e-mail me. I would be happy to tell you through an e-mail....oooops sorry, can't, YOU don't list an e-mail address.

    Oh well, have a nice day.

    FyredUp
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  23. #23
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    "My department is going to be replacing our "heavy" rescue in the next couple of years and a rescue-engine is a hot topic of debate. "

    Depending on how much you actually use your heavy rescue, and the types of specialty equipment you carry on it, chances are that you would be better off with a rescue-pumper.

    "How much more expensive is a rescue-engine than a standard engine? I realize it's going to vary by manufacturer but does anyone have any ballpark figures?"

    Depends completely on what you want to carry and how you set it up. Do you want bin style overhead compartments? Will it carry a cascade and/or compressor? Do your standard engines already carry jaws, have extended front bumpers, customized shelving, and generators?

    "For those that run rescue-engines, do you find that equipment storage is a major problem or can you carry just as much as a regular type squad can?"

    In my opinion, just about any engine can be designed to carry squad equipment without any significant increase in size by simply making use of all dead space, custom shelving everything, and mounting some equipment where it might not normally be stored.

    A few examples:
    -Eliminate as much as you can from the engineer's compartment. Adapters should be stored on their discharges, spanners at the pump panel, and LDH appliances on the rear bumper by the hosebed.

    -Mount radios, flashlights, imagers, CO/gas meters, ice rescue suits, medical equipment, etc. in the cab. PAC even makes a bracket for a pair of irons now that is NFPA certified for in-cab use (I guess I don't need to say that the SCBA's should be in jump seats in the cab).

    -Make use of all wasted space: the low area behind the rear cab door can hold extinguishers etc.; wheel wells can hold at least 3 spare bottles each (where normally only one is stored), and if your engine is equipped with side dumps, put them between the tandems; dead space behind pump panels can be used - or better yet, enclose the pump, allowing for additional compartment space and increased hosebed capacity if spec'd right (also, give serious consideration to a rear-mount pump, no matter what kind of equipment you are going to carry); electric, air, and hydraulic reels as well as cascade bottles can be mounted in the dunnage area (if the rig is set up that way) or in top mounted bin compartments; and, if the rig is equipped with through-the-tank/enclosed ladder and suction storage, really build it into the tank (too much space is wasted with the additional walls/dividers).

    -Lastly, NEVER FORGET THE BUMPER. Attack lines, extrication tools, floodlights, hand tools, winches - and maybe even a monitor - work great up there.

    Hope you can use some of these ideas. Good luck on your purchase.

  24. #24
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    Rescue-Enignes are decent, The new one Kentland had Rescue-Engine 333 is very. I had the chance to run a few calls on it. By the way if you didnt notice Code 3 came out with Rescue-Engine 333 Model.

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