Closed Thread
Page 2 of 3 First 123 Last
  1. #26
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    26

    Post

    MFF: That's all I'm saying... yank it off the dash.

    AND it's not a matter of paying a ticket. It is a matter of getting handcuffed, arrested, taken to jail, bonded, and coming back for a mandatory court appearance or hiring an attorney to represent you. That's tough if your think it's BS. Do you think it's BS for your state to prohibit me to have red lights? If anyone gave me that attitude when I stopped them, there's no doubt in my mind they'd be charged.

    Oh, and if really don't like it, and YOU don't want to remove them, I CAN.

    [ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: obx-emt ]


  2. #27
    Forum Member
    PAVolunteer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Dauphin County, PA
    Posts
    1,139

    Post

    [quote]Originally posted by obx-emt:


    AND it's not a matter of paying a ticket. It is a matter of getting handcuffed, arrested, taken to jail, bonded, and coming back for a mandatory court appearance or hiring an attorney to represent you. That's tough if your think it's BS. Do you think it's BS for your state to prohibit me to have red lights? If anyone gave me that attitude when I stopped them, there's no doubt in my mind they'd be charged.

    Oh, and if really don't like it, and YOU don't want to remove them, I CAN.




    You are exactly the type of person who gives LEO's everywhere a bad name. How does this contribute positively to the quality of life of anyone, anywhere? Aren't we supposed to work together?

    Stay Safe

  3. #28
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Medic162's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Charleston S.C>
    Posts
    258

    Post

    Man oh Man, like I said in my original posting - this sure has heated up. I also dread the "****ing contest" between cops and firefighters (especially when occasionally they are one in the same!), but I in my perfect world believe this - Any law enforcement official, short of the newby golden child, would reciprocate the same attitude he is afforded. If you've got a dashlight in your vehicle that is not publicly displayed, and you politely identify yourself as a FF or paramedic from another jurisdiction, I would lay a paycheck on said official giving you a brief education on local policies. If on the other hand, you greet him with colorful attitude and remarks pertaining to his mother, chances are(at least where obx is from)you'll get to visit with Otis at the pokey. I can't imagine the first person in this example actually having a true legal problem develop.
    Brian Rowe
    Paramedic/Engineer
    Colleton County Fire/Rescue

  4. #29
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Clermont County, Ohio
    Posts
    569

    Post

    I'm very interested in the perspective from the police officers in this forum on how they would handle the situation where a person's car has emergency lights which are legal in their home state but not in the state that the car and the officer are currently in.

    My personal experience is this: I have a red/white MX7000 on my personal vehicle. It's permanently mounted since it's a full sized bar. This is legal in Ohio, my home state. Kentucky also uses red lights for their volunteer fire/EMS personnel. I frequently drive in KY and never been stopped or questioned there. Indiana uses blue for their volunteer fire personnel and green for their volunteer EMS. I used to live near the IN border and frequently drove in Indiana and again was never stopped or questioned - though about 15 years ago there were stories of local Indiana LEO's telling Ohio personnel to cover their lights. To the best of my knowledge, Ohio officers don't stop the Indiana personnel, even though blue is reserved for police in Ohio.

    I was asked once by a city cop in Ill, which apparently reserves red for cops, to show ID that I was on an FD, but he was very polite and and just asked if I were going to be in their area long or just passing through. He made no request for me to remove or cover the lights. I've also driven the same car in TN, PA, NJ, MD, IA, KS, etc. and never been stopped. I don't even know what the laws are in those states.

    My assumption is that officers do have some discretion on how to handle these situations, whether you call it professional courtesty, or whatever. Is that correct?

    Another question - since many of us live in states which border Canada and occasionally vacation there, what are the rules for having emergency lights on your vehicle if you are driving in Canada? Canadian forum members - do you know?

    Thanks.
    Proud to be honored with IACOJ membership. Blessed by TWO meals cooked by Cheffie - a true culinary goddess. Expressing my own views, not my organization's.

  5. #30
    Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    55

    Post

    As a future LEO (soon as I complete testing, woohoo, Indiana State Police here I come!), I honestly personally could care less if you have the "wrong" color light on your dash if you're passing through. I most certainly would feel the need to pull you over to make sure you aren't a individual with alterior motives, smile, pat you on the shoulder, and make a recommendation that you remove the lights from view if possible. I think just about any cop, save for those who are A) Really bored, B) Really Cranky will let you go with a warning.

    Like the other poster said, if you greet the trooper with insults about him, his mother, and the family livestock in colorful language, well, you get what you deserve.

  6. #31
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Berwyn Heights, MD.
    Posts
    2

    Post

    The only place that I've seen blue lights really have an adverse effect on a situation was at K-Mart!!! Take'em off and place them in the dumpster behind the firehouse. I've seen blue lights on cars in PA that were so big, when they were turned on, the car actually spun.

  7. #32
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Post

    [quote]Originally posted by TRK4:
    While on the side of the road is no place to try and educate someone.

    One previous poster state "blue lights as alowed by law" Well it's called recipical agreements. That mean if your vehicle and it's equipment is legal in your state it's legal as you travel.

    To say otherwise would mean if you are from a state that only uses a rear licens plate but travel to a state that uses front and rear they can write you. I think not. Another good example would be window tinting. What is allowed varies widely state by state. I travel a great deal and never have had any problems. I do have state issued FD tags on my truck



    You don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about. Thelicense plate issue is not the same as the light. The light would be an equipment violation, and in some states apparently, a crime.

    In NJ, I don't care if your vehilce is registered on the moon, tinted front windows will buy you a ticket.

    Congratulations, PA Volunteer. The anti-cop attitude continues. What would you have obx do, NOT enforce a law? Or only not enforce it when the stop is a Volly? I didn't see him say that he would write a ticket, I saw him write that he would be disposed to write it if he came up against someone with a BS attitude and thought that he was being overzealous and then copped an attitude...oh wait a minute! That's you.

    You guys need to grow up. Just cover the light.

    [ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: George Wendt, CFI ]

    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  8. #33
    Forum Member
    PAVolunteer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Dauphin County, PA
    Posts
    1,139

    Post

    [quote]Originally posted by George Wendt, CFI:


    Congratulations, PA Volunteer. The anti-cop attitude continues. What would you have obx do, NOT enforce a law? Or only not enforce it when the stop is a Volly? I didn't see him say that he would write a ticket, I saw him write that he would be disposed to write it if he came up against someone with a BS attitude and thought that he was being overzealous and then copped an attitude...oh wait a minute! That's you.

    You guys need to grow up. Just cover the light.




    Sorry George, once again, no anti-cop sentiment here (outside of anti this obx guy, whoever he is). Yes, I am anti someone who is on such a childish power trip as to say something like,

    "Oh, and if really don't like it, and YOU don't want to remove them, I CAN."

    Have you never heard of complying with the spirit of the law as opposed to the letter of the law? The spirit of the blue-light law in whatever state doesn't allow them is to keep freaks from driving around with an illuminated blue-light and impersonating a police officer or whatever else. If someone is driving through whatever state, on vacation, with his family, and happens to have a blue-light on his car - which incidently is used to help serve his community - what is the freakin' point in pulling him over? What is the point in saying,

    "Oh, and if really don't like it, and YOU don't want to remove them, I CAN."

    Explain that to me George. Please, we'd all like to hear it. Explain how it makes sense that, most likely, a traffic cop "enforcing the law" (as you say) by pulling over someone with a blue light, would miss who knows how many maniacs doing 90 in a 65 MPH zone. Explain it, please.

    Finally, how is it anti-cop to say that this obx guy is giving cops a bad name. Oh, sorry, is it more undertone and insinuations? How is it a "BS attitude" and "over-zealous" to say that obx is giving cops a bad name when he is on some power trip? Explain that one too George. Maybe you should change your title to "George Wendt, internet forum psycho-analyst."

    Stay Safe

  9. #34
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Berks County, PA
    Posts
    629

    Angry

    Alright...listen up, people...

    1. I am not a cop. I am a vollie. I like cops, vollies (and career guys, too) all just fine.

    2. I understand that the privledge (note...I didn't say "right", because it isn't) of using lights on my POV extends only as far as the PA state line.

    3. I consider it my responsibility to comply with the laws of other states when I'm driving in them, and I expect all of you to do the same when you're driving in mine.

    4. If I left my blue lights enabled and exposed when I crossed into a state where they were illegal, I'd expect to get cited and I wouldn't argue it.

    5. Those of you out there who think you have some f---ing God-given right to tool around doing whatever you please regardless of the law just because somebody handed you a membership card, a badge and some turnout gear need to adjust your attitude. You're making us all look like idiots, and it is not appreciated.


    There. I've put in my $0.02, even though I promised myself that I'd stay out of this thread.

    That is all.

  10. #35
    Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    31

    Post

    Well I too should have not gotten invovled in this But OBX-EMT. When I said on the side of the road was no place for it. (I am a former law enforcement officer and on the side of the road would show your uniform all the respect it deserves) I ment that was not the place to debate the issue with a law enforcement officer. Take the ticket and argue in court Thats why there are cops and Then there are judges. See you translated and and interpitated something (side of the road is not place to educate someone) which is the same with the law thats why we have judges.

    Now what is that you were saying about Typical Mentality.

    Question would a vehicle from a state that has no state inspection requirments that travels to NC be in violation for not having a valid state inspection? I am not saying that front tags or window tint or state inspection are the same as a Lights on a POV. But when a state agrees with another state to let legaly equiped and liscensed vehicles from another state travel on travel on their highways and honer other states drivers license as being valid.

    All I am saying is this if your state has an agreement on vehicles and drivers license with other states and and all 50 do. The agreements do not say we we agree but. Things like lights, window tint state inspection. county stickers are all under part of that agreement.

    But it's not a cops job to decide. It's his job to issue a citation that brings it before a judge to decide. Or if you really want to know write a letter Attorney Generals and get a ruling.

  11. #36
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    26

    Post

    Some of you are taking this to heart and missing the point!

    1.) I beleive that "professional courtesy" would be demonstarted by everyone respecting the laws of the states they visit and pulling off or covering lights as appropriate when visiting.

    2.) My original question was "what would happen if my red lights were viewed by LEO up north?" Therefore, would I get pulled over?

    PAVOLUNTEER: My comments were directed to MFF who thought this was an infraction. I don't plan on charging anyone with this, but letting them know it is lllegal. If I warned and saw the same vehicle later, I would charge. My point was if this was charged, it could not be on a citation... Oh and that "anti obx huy whoever he is" comment was kinda overboard considering you don't know me. I'm asking a legitimate question and was hoping for legitimiate answers.

    My point in the "I CAN" statement was that if someone refused point-blank to remove or cover a light, they would be charged and the light taken.

    Most officers will tell you that when they have already issued or decided to issue a warning and the person stopped gets what a local A.L.E. Agent calls "a case of the ***", that decision can quickly be reconsidered.

    Oh and what was the power hungry ego trip thing about? You're too good to comply with other state's laws?

    The LAST THING I WANTED was for this to be cop vs. fireman, I'm both, and we're on the same side. Thought I put that disclaimer in by the way I started the original post.

  12. #37
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    Stratford, N.J.
    Posts
    159

    Post

    Wow these Light forums really do make me laugh. Look lets all face it --- If you are travling out of your state take the light off the roof, dash, or if it's permenatley mounted {Why I'll never understand} Than cover it up. ~ The law enforcement officers in those states that we may be visiting have more important things to do than waste their time pulling us over and telling us that a certian color light isn't legal. ~ There just isn't a need to have it displayed when you travel out of state
    ***The Opinions expressed here are strictly my own and do not reflect those of the Department to which I am a Member ! ***

    Stratford Fire Co. # 1.."Any Job ~ Any Place ~ Any Time"

    Check us Out www.stratfordfire.com

  13. #38
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    World's largest open-air insane asylum... Santa Cruz CA
    Posts
    82

    Post

    My one experience with this issue was when I was a vollie in PA. Had an S&W pancake light on the dash of my car.

    I was in MD, visiting my then-fiancee, and a Maryland State trooper pulled me over. He advised me of MD law regarding blue lights and asked me to cover it or take it off the dash. No muss, no fuss, no problem. I took it off the dash, we shot the breeze for a minute, and all was well.

    OBX has a responsibility to enforce the laws of his state. We have a responsibility to obey the laws of whatever jurisdiction we happen to be in. Is that so difficult?

    "When in Rome..."
    Remember the brothers... FDNY 9/11/01

    FTM-PTB-EGH-RFB-KTF

    I.A.C.O.J. for LIFE!

  14. #39
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    new franken, WI USA
    Posts
    13

    Post

    Wow!!

    Such a todo about lights? I'll throw my 1 1/2 cents in the ring...In WI you cannot have lights on a personal vehicle. Red, green, blue or purple. Unless.......you have a siren and 2-way communication. The exception is yellow (like your directional) A tow truck will have a yellow light bar.
    Mark Carlson


    firefighter's find 'em hot and leave 'em wet!

  15. #40
    Forum Member
    PAVolunteer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Dauphin County, PA
    Posts
    1,139

    Post

    obx, sorry, I guess I took one statement out of context and ran away with it. So, you have my apologies. And, you're absolutely right, I don't know you, thus, I withdraw my statements.

    I just don't understand why a cop would bother pulling someone with a blue light over (see my scenario regarding missing speeders, etc.). I would never suggest that a cop should not enforce the law. However, at the same time, I would beg that people consider the spirit of the law vs. the letter of the law. That's all.

    Stay Safe

  16. #41
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Post

    Let's look at only a piece of PA's rambling for a moment.

    >>Explain that to me George. Please, we'd all like to hear it. Explain how it makes sense that, most likely, a traffic cop "enforcing the law" (as you say) by pulling over someone with a blue light, would miss who knows how many maniacs doing 90 in a 65 MPH zone. Explain it, please.

    Finally, how is it anti-cop to say that this obx guy is giving cops a bad name. Oh, sorry, is it more undertone and insinuations? How is it a "BS attitude" and "over-zealous" to say that obx is giving cops a bad name when he is on some power trip? Explain that one too George. Maybe you should change your title to "George Wendt, internet forum psycho-analyst."<<<

    First of all, more anti-cop sentiment in that "most likely a traffic cop" statement. It insinuates that a "traffic cop" is a lower form of law enforcement officer. It is not and is prbably the backbone of the law enforcement community. Secondly, if an officer makes a stop and is enforcing the law, it is not his fault if other violations occur while he is doing his job and writing the ticket. It is the offenders. BTW; Professional courtesy cannot be demanded or expected. It is extended by the law enforcement officer using his discretionary judgement.

    Second of all, obx has given no indication that he is on a power trip. He has given all indication that he is an honest cop who will do the right thing, that is try to get people to obey the law. He has also shown that if he is forced to, he is not afraid to utilize his consititutional power to enforce it when he has to. I saw your apology. Too little too late.

    It is not a power trip to enforce the law. It is not a power trip to use the statutory tools at my disposal to compel a reluctant or beligerant driver to obey the law, especially when he knows better and has been given the option to do so voluntarily. obx sounds like my kind of cop. My Captain has a quote on his wall which reads in part; "He was a good cop, with a heart and brains". Sounds like obx.

    As I said before PA, you are an angry, angry individual. I would love to know the experience you have had with a cop that has made you hate us so.

    PS: Bob Snyder is my hero.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  17. #42
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    3

    Post

    i live in maryland and the first five officers of the company can have redlights and firepolice for traffic control,i live a small town and the only thing we can use is fourway flashers and highbeams but the police officers really don't like it,we have a problem with are city police going to are calls and calling centeral to have the fire company to disreguard they have everything under control,anyone else have this problem? FTM-PTB-EGH

  18. #43
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Post

    [quote]Originally posted by brother hoot:
    i live in maryland and the first five officers of the company can have redlights and firepolice for traffic control,i live a small town and the only thing we can use is fourway flashers and highbeams but the police officers really don't like it,we have a problem with are city police going to are calls and calling centeral to have the fire company to disreguard they have everything under control,anyone else have this problem? FTM-PTB-EGH


    Dude, try the spell check.

    Gee, I wonder why the cops don't like it when you use four-way flashers (designated to indicate a stationary hazard on the roadway) and your high beams (absolutely a misuse of the lights...and no, I don't like the flashing high beams on PD cars either. I believe it is a hazard to oncoming traffic).

    Maybe the cops are tired of telling you children to use your lights as they were designed and to obey the law.

    [ 01-21-2002: Message edited by: George Wendt, CFI ]

    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  19. #44
    Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    65

    Post

    I remember reading an article a while ago about a FF that was responding to a call in his personal vehicle and was involved in a fatal MVA. He was criminally liable. In Alberta the Provincial Govt stated that you may use Green lights on personal vehicles to identify vollunteer fire fighters but only under the direct authority of the municipality you serve. My dept decided against it after a few people took it upon themselves to use them. Nothing looked more silly than 5 vehicles racing to the fire hall. Looked like pizza delivery in a hurry. It only confused the public more any way. Our SOP's state that you may not respond directly to the scene of a call, but to respond to the fire hall only. A Chief or Capt may go directly to a scene if first info justified it. IE structure fire etc in town. Besides if every one went to the call directly what good would you be with out your equipment except to radio the trucks to hurry up? If every body went direct to scene what would you do with out the trucks? It would only open you up to free lancing and how would you as an IC plan your responce if you dont know who is where doing what?
    BAck to the main thread, In Alberta if you are using your vehicle as an emergency responce vehicle and not insured as one and something happened you would be hung out to dry.
    Some days yer the fire hydrant and some days yer the dog.

  20. #45
    Forum Member
    PAVolunteer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Dauphin County, PA
    Posts
    1,139

    Post

    George, thank you for psycho analyzing my posts and telling me what I actually said (or what you think I actually said). Once again, you are reading waaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much into stuff. By me saying,

    "a traffic cop "enforcing the law" (as you say) by pulling over someone with a blue light, would miss who knows how many maniacs doing 90 in a 65 MPH zone."

    how does that say anything negative about a traffic cop? Why is that you have to spout off about your constitutional right? Please try to not be so insecure that you have attempt to justify your existence with retarded arguments that bring your constitutional right into things. Oh, and by the way, the apology was for jumping the gun on obx. The apology was not to you, and had nothing to do with you. If you knew me at all what so ever, you would know that I'm not an angry individual, and I have no anti-cop feelings. In fact, I don't think I've ever had a bad cop experience (first-hand).

    Now George, analyze this post with your psychological wizardry and tell me what I'm really saying. I'd love to hear it.

    Stay Safe

  21. #46
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Post

    [quote]Originally posted by PA Volunteer:

    Now George, analyze this post with your psychological wizardry and tell me what I'm really saying. I'd love to hear it.

    Stay Safe


    This is an easy one. You are saying that you wish to demonstrate what an idiot you are.

  22. #47
    Forum Member
    PAVolunteer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Dauphin County, PA
    Posts
    1,139

    Post

    OOh, good one George. I didn't think that even you would stoop to calling people names. Way to exercise your constitutional right to free speech.

    Stay Safe

    [ 01-21-2002: Message edited by: PA Volunteer ]


  23. #48
    Forum Member
    codeblue81's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Well right here....Duh!!
    Posts
    390

    Lightbulb

    Now I've learned my lesson to stay away from these types of posts. I was just wondering if anyone else has noticed an increase of people complaining and all around bitching at others. When I first came to this forum I didn't see as much complaining. Does anyone else notice it?

    code_blue81
    Jeremy Culver
    IACOJ Bureau of EMS

    These views are my own and do not represent the views or opinions of anyambulance service that I am affiliated with.

    Help our fellow firefighters.
    www.helpingourown.com
    "Firefighters Helping Firefighters"

  24. #49
    Member
    NMFD33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 1999
    Location
    New Milford Fire Dept Co.2 , NJ
    Posts
    27

    Post

    My truck is blue, does that mean if i goto Maryland i have to repaint it red? can we get into any bigger an argument over this. its a light. i personally feel that there should be a national standard for things like such. law enforcement can use blue and everyone else red. that might be a pain for us in the 7 or such states that uses blue for volunteers but oh well. how about NY state that vol EMS member use green...
    Chris Kerrigan
    ILiveInACage@aol.com
    FireFighter/EMT/HazMat Tech

    New Milford Vol. Fire Dept Company #2
    New Milford,NJ

  25. #50
    Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    Western Wake Fire Rescue, Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    30

    Post

    i think it's simple... if you're out of town and you don't know.. take it out, or cover it up, i live in NC and red/white is for EMS, FD's and POV's. Blue is STRICTLY LE. although some PD's use a combo of red and blue. I have a red/white dash light that's permanetly mounted on my dash along with hide-a-way strobes in my marker lights. When I go out of NC/SC/VA/TN (where i know the laws state FD's can have red/white) I just slide either a piece of cardboard in front of it, or something to sorta cover it up..

    As for these people with light-bars.. they make covers for them. some just plain black, some with things like "out of service" on them.. they're cheap and can keep ya outta trouble.
    Shevais M. Shrum
    Western Wake Fire Rescue

Closed Thread
Page 2 of 3 First 123 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register