1. #1
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    Post No more autos from Akron

    It seems that Akron is no longer making automatic nozzles. Is this the start of a new trend in the nozzle bus or a backward step?

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    You're wrong, where did you get this info TFT?

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    www.akronbrass.com
    no more
    auto Handline nozzles. Thats the way I read it?

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    Sounds like marketing hyperbole to me.

    Akron salesmen no longer have to explain why there nozzle is better than an automatic, then explain why their company also makes automatics.
    IACOJ Canine Officer
    20/50

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    Dalmation has a point there, but I just got off the phone w/Akron about 30 min ago.

  6. #6
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    This is the quote that's grated on me all day from Akron's website:

    Over 25 years ago, Flow Restricting (Automatic) Nozzles were developed to maintain reach in master stream nozzles when water supplies were reduced.

    Finally figured it out...folks, *all* nozzles by definition are flow restricting. Otherwise we'd call them open butts.

    A smoothbore tip is flow restricting. At any given pressure, it only flows a particular volume. Increase the pressure, the volume goes up.

    So yep, by them calling Automatics "flow restricting" I put that right in the basket marked, "Over Baked Marketing Hyperbole."
    IACOJ Canine Officer
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    HMMMMM.......

    Maybe.....Just Maybe they realized that they couldn't beat TFT in the Automatic Nozzle market.


    Soooo...... They picked up their toys and went home.

    It looks like Akron will be selling only Smooth bore flow restricting nozzles, Fixed gallonage flow restricting nozzles, Adjustable gallonage flow restricting nozzles, and combination solid stream/fog pattern flow restricting nozzles from now on. Good catch Matt!

    I guess if I use the 60/95 GPM Turbojet on the 1 3/4 crosslays I will be riding the wave of the future.

    Nah, I'll stay with the TFT, But thanks anyway.

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    Lightbulb

    Maybe we could just go back to leather buckets, rattles and bed-keys?

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    Then again they might have been referring to the old pdq nozzles. Which were the for runner of the automatics which I already don't care because I'd rather use a smooth bore or at least a manually adjustable fog over an automatic anyway, and besides if TFT is so hi tech that it can build the ultimate automatic nozzle why can't they get a simple old smooth bore right? They have the worst s/b stream I have ever seen.

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    Thumbs up

    We have had excellent results with Elkhart Brass.
    They have outstanding support if you get a damaged nozzel somehow. The new select-o-matics work well for us. Thanks Mr. Johnson for your professional support over the years.

  11. #11
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    Blacksheep,

    You hit the nail on the head with the part about personal preference. In truth all nozzles will do the job if used and pumped properly. It comes down to your local operating procedures and the techniques used.

    We have done comparisons with the TFT and Akron Automatic nozzles and have determined that we like the TFT. You may decide different. That's what makes America GREAT. My guess is that Akron didn't have market share in automatics. The new combo smooth bore/fog is something I haven't seen used and have some concerns about. Do you use it as a smoothbore or a fog or do you need to develop new a new technique to use it effectively?
    Might be something to play with.

    Stay Safe

    Jim

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    Actually The nozzles we use are break-aparts, so the s/b tip and the fogs are all interchangeable. We normally keep the 7/8 sb for our initial attack line and the fog/stub tip 7/8 on the back up line which is also our prepiped foam line, The fog tip is a 75psi x 95,125,150,175,200 adjustable. That works pretty well for us. But yes I don't put all of the smooth bore eggs in 1 basket, for every s/b line we also have a low pressure fog. With the fog/stub tip the flow pressure at 150gpm(fog) will interface nicely with the 7/8 stub tip so the engine driver doesn't have to make any adjustments if you switch. I haven't played with the new nozzle yet so I can't really coment on that one.

  13. #13
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    I will not weep over the loss of the Akromatic nozzle. I had to use them on one career Fd I was on. I felt the bulk, the weight and in my humble opinion the poor fog pattern it produced made it less than desirable.

    I am no fan of automatic nozzles but again in my humble opinion TFT far outshined the Akromatic, with the Elkhart selectomatic a close second.

    We too use the break-a-part combo fog set-up. But ours is on 2 inch hose with a 200 at 75 Elkhart Chief with a 1 1/4 inch slug tip. We use only 2 inch for attack and flow from 160 to 300 gpm from one line, at lower pressures. Works for us, may not work for you, but it does work for us.

    I have played with one of those Akron Saber nozzles. I think it is a neat concept. The smooth bore tip comes in I believe 3/4, 7/8, 15/16, and 1 inch. The fog tip discharges around 120 or so gpm. The bale operates the smooth bore and the fog is controlled by turning the fog head. It works best if one or the other is flowing, but can be made to work effectiviely if you flow both and bump the engine pressure. My main concern would be a training issue, getting everyone to understand how it works, and when to do what with the choices.

    You know those Akron Turbojets were a heck of a good nozzle, still are. Enough fire departments in our area used them for years before "upgrading?" to automatics. Heck we still have some for spares.

    Nozzles are like cars, some are Ford fans, some like Dodges, and even a few somehow manage to like Chevys.

    Take care and stay safe,

    FyredUp
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  14. #14
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    Why don't you guys try this just to keep ALL of the nozzle reps honest. Get yourself a flow gauge, and a gpm gauge, place them on a discharge using a smooth bore. Get an IFSTA manual that has discharge pressures and use a pitot tube to zero in the gauges. (Example: a 1in s/b should flow 220gpm@55psi, pitot that and make sure the gauges read the same). Do this over a wide range to check the accuracy of your gauges.(you may want to use 2 pitots as well). Then remove the s/b and substitute whatever you want and check the flow rate. Some autos that say they have great streams as low as 40psi, are only flowing about 60gpm. You'll be surprised at the junk out there.

  15. #15
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    All nozzles will flow more water if you pump more pressure to them, but the streams get ugly and/or unuseable. The automatic solved this problem. But if a new nozzle design keeps a good stream at various higher pressures (and therefore more flow)then why not do away with the extra parts?

    Akron may be on to something even if their marketing department is ON something. . .

    Flow-resisting nozzles. Sheesh. Worse than a used car salesman.
    ullrichk
    a.k.a.
    perfesser

    a ship in a harbor is safe. . . but that's not what ships are for

  16. #16
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    I wasn't refering to too much pressure, generally not enough pressure is the problem. NFPA requires nozzles to flow their rate within 10% of the pressure indicated for that nozzle. I understand that Akron stacks that 10% on the bottom 1/2 so that if it is underpumped it will still flow it's rate. I thought that was mighty nice of them.

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