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  1. #1
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    Angry police officers trying todo firefighters job

    I live a small town and the city police officers responsed to all of are calls they run lights and siren and if they get to the scene before we do they tell us to disreguard they have everything under control,i can look out my window and watch drugdealers but they would rather go on are emergencies,even when the ambulance gets calls they'll transport to the hospital,anyone else having this problem FTM-PTB-EGH


  2. #2
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    I suppose that there is no possibility that the problem may lie in your FD, right?

    If not, why doesn't your Chief meet with the Police Chief and try to fix the problem?

    In your eight years of experience, how many times has this happened? Have any fires not been suppressed because of the PD? If, indeed, everything IS under control, why shouldn't they call you off? It is far safer for you to return all but one unit to the firehouse than for you to run hot to a call you know id nothing. And we are in this for the safety of the citizens, right?

    I guess I am in here fighting another anti-cop loser.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  3. #3
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    Its only a problem if you see it as a problem. I think that it is ok to do that.
    1. IF it is nothing then why risk the fire department going?
    2. IF it is nothing and you are cancelled, it saves money.
    3. IF they are wrong and they cancelled you then they assume the liability.
    4. If it is something then they can give you a first in report.
    5. They could tell you of any hazards that you might encounter en route.

    I know that you might want to run calls but this is no time for ego to get into the act.

  4. #4
    Junior Member eng10drvr's Avatar
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    I agree w/ eyecue, if you must respond to get a rush you have your priorty all wrong. Your job is PUBLIC SAFETY. Having a bunch of vehicles responding down the road when there not needed is not looking out for the PUBLIC.

  5. #5
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    We have what we call a "COP 'O METER". This usually only pertains to haz-mat calls. If the cop is laying face down in a pool of green stuff, we know to get the hell back! Or if the tires are melting off his cruiser, we tend to stay away. I have had this used on an ambulance run, at a domestic. Cop laying in front yard: SCENE UNSAFE!!

    I feel that the initial size up (i.e. smoke or flames showing) is very helpful to us, and we can determine our response as such. If the cop goes on scene at chest pain and says he's starting CPR, we know what to rush in. It's nice to have even a little heads up.

    I do hate it when we have a fire and the cop rushes inside to do a primary search. I'm always worried that they will go down inside, then we have compounded the problem.

    Our p.d. is not allowed to call us off, but their size up/info. will let us know if we can drop our response(shut down the lights), or send trucks back into service quickly in case they are needed elsewhere.

    Hopefully you have a good relationship with your p.d., and things can be talked out. Ask them how they would like us arriving first at a MVA and telling them they could go back in service? I know, it would never happen(I hope never), but it's the same thing in a round about way...

  6. #6
    Forum Member weir33's Avatar
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    How Did I know George would be the fist to wade in If it would make you feel better about it respond cold and do a drive by. Do they have the legal authority to stand you down? You might want to have a fire officer respond POV and do size up. Every Couple Of years we have seminars with the local constabulary and learn about their Protocols and Vice versa. Not everyone is out to bash cops here. I kind of like to see them on scene they do make good canaries A little mutual respect goes a long way.
    J.B.WEIR
    Summerville Vol Fire Dept
    Pride In Service !

  7. #7
    Senior Member postal79's Avatar
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    first of all can we not turn this into a cop vs F/F ****ing match, we all do what we do because we want to help our communities, cops,f/f,ems.
    second i agree with george with not running hot to bs calls. we do have a problem with SOME officers going into every fire call, whether an activation, CO, small fire, chemical etc, but it is only a very small percent, the rest know the extent of their training and ability and wait for us, just like we would wait for them if we go to an activation and there is a broken window or door. we also have a problem with officers trying to return us, we've told them that only fire personnel can return fire personnel, that if they arrive and there is nothing showing they can request a reduced response, but not return us because we will not and are not allowed to
    every town has problems, but dont get into fights with your partners in others services, never know when you need them or they need you
    stay safe

  8. #8
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    Tell them, "You keep showing up to our calls, remember this, next time you are involved in a high speed pursuit be sure to look in your rearview mirror. We'll be barreling up your *** to get that bad guy!"
    FTM-PTB-RFB-EGH

  9. #9
    Forum Member MetalMedic's Avatar
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    As one of the resident cops on this forum, I feel compelled to give my input. What we all need to remember that firefighters, EMT and police officers ALL have the #1 responsibility of protecting lives. Everyhting else is secondary to that task. So if the choice is between busting someone selling drugs, or aiding someone in getting out of a burning building, the police officer has to save the victim in the immediate danger. Not the one who will be in danger after they take their drugs.

    Now, I also agree that a police officer needs to have his/her head examined if they enter a burning building to perform a search. That polyester uniform would not look too good melted on their body !! When I train new officers, I stress the importance of locating victims and getting them to locations where they can be more easily rescued by the fire department. Entering the building would be a last resort, and should never be done without someone posted outside to point the fire department in the right direction should the cop still be inside when they get there.

    As for a fire fighter getting involved in a pursuit, I know that was a sarcastic comment, but how much do you like keeping your house anyway? If someone were to do that, and ANY accident were to occur, the liability would certainly fall back on the person who had no legal authority to be involved. A Police Officer has legal authority to be at any emergency scene, but a firefighter does not have legal authority to participate in the apprehension of a criminal.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

  10. #10
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    Angry

    Here is my $.02....

    MetalMedic has made very good points. George may have made good points as well but his points are overshadowed by his overbearing attitude. Nothing personal, but that won't get your point across.

    I feel it is a good thing that the pd be dispatched on all fire related calls. I will disagree with them advising the fd to disregard. In some cases, a code 1 response will be warranted, but pd disregarding because they cannot find anything is wrong....let the ones trained for the job investigate. As far as the comments about the pursuit...however funny, they just inflate the ****ing contest between the pd and fd.

    There needs to be a hand in hand working relationship established. If this is not present, the higher ups need to put there thick skinned heads together and find the problem and solve it. Cutting one another accomplishes zero.

    The problem we have is with the pd advising dispatch fd is not needed, or cancelling fd on mva's with injury/leakage. This problem has had it's backfires for the pd. In most instances, there is no repurcussions for the pd. In some cases, it has been detrimental. One case, for example, a "minor" mva resulted in the vehicle bursting into flames in front of the cruiser. Needless to say the fd was then notified and the officer now notifies fd on all accidents. He also will not go check any suspicious smoke reports or anything of the sort until fd is notified. FD also needs to respond to any accident with injuries due to the number of cross-trained members. Aid needs to be initiated asap...fd usually beats ems on scene.

    The working relationship needs to be established to solve the problems. If the fd doesn't run like a bat out of hell to get there, respond with enough equipment to battle a three alarmer, then the pd will probably respect you more. I am not saying all fd's do this, but there are some out there because I listen and witness them do so.

    Just two cents from a ff....
    Begin with the end in mind.

    Be safe out there!!

  11. #11
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    The pursuit comment was made sarcastically. In actuallity, we do have a problem with PD locally in Volunteer area. We are very routinely dispatched to AFA's at the high school. We respond with 2 engines, a Squad and a Chief. That is protocol. Twice we have arrived to find smoke and flame showing. We also run very frequent false alarms. The Sheriff's office and the Police Department are known to attempt to cancel us on these. They relay that these are false alarms, no FD needed, can't find the source of alarm. We still have to go to reset the alarm. We arrive and investigate the origin of the alarm. We have found burning coveralls in the shop, smoldering lab coats in the science lab. Dispatched to MVA. Officer arrives and reports minor injuries, everyone out. We have arrived to find trapped occupants, serious trauma patients and have arrived to find Officer saying "You can go home, no one around" when we look around, it looks like Wizard of Oz with feet sticking out from under the car.
    FTM-PTB-RFB-EGH

  12. #12
    Senior Member FDNYRR's Avatar
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    In my wildest dreams can I imagine being a Police Officer. They get hell when they don't do their jobs, and get more hell when they do-do their jobs. Most of their details are unexciting (forgoing hollywood) and at the same time dirty. They deal with the scum of the earth and are so highly affected family-wise, their divorce statistics soar. Having said this.....They are not Firefighters, not at all. Some calls can be made by them, but how professional are the calls? If victims are trapped in a vehicle, and they report "we're here", are you assured the victim will be removed correctly? For a simple "food-on-the-stove" job, yes it can be extinguished with no big deal....however was their extension? Quite some years ago, we had in our town the "Battle of the Badges"...we lost. The reason was most people favor Fire Departments, as oppossed to Police Departments, phycologically "we" don't hassel them. We lost because the poloticians want the Police to have more exposure doing "the right thing" to equalize their "bad assignments"-like tickets, etc. We lost because the poloticians wanted us to lose. Today as I write this, "the Battle of the Badges" continues in NYC, but the media was told to hold it down. I would never insert myself into a Bank Robbery, or a Drug Bust, or even a Wild Pursuit.....but neither do they belong in Fire Buildings nor any other emergency where another group is highly trained to do that specific job. We lost a very well-liked Emergency Service Police Officer some years ago....he went to the floor above without a chanrged line in place. Both jobs are extremly hazardous, one not more so then the other, but apples and oranges are not the same fruit.
    "All gave some...Some gave all!"
    9/11/01 Lest we forget!
    FDNYRR

  13. #13
    Senior Member hctrouble25's Avatar
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    This has been going on forever...we work with State Police in my fire coverage area, and there is always a different bunch of guys every 8 months or so that don't know our procedures, etc. and we have to educate them all over again. Hey, the way I look at it is, if they are not trained to fight fires, they shouldn't. Should they be there, yes. They have reports to write too. I am all for all police being trained in basic CPR, etc. and helping out a victim at a scene. That should be mandated nation wide. They often get there before us and should be able to at least put on a pair of rubber gloves and do CPR, or stop bleeding, or dress a wound. That is not brain surgery! As for them cancelling us...well, if they are not paramedic or firefighter certified in that state then they have NO business cancelling us. We make that call. We often hear "Station -- fire you can cancel authority patrol" and we still go anyway because until we hear "authority --60, --70", or another officer number we don't cancel! Period. Basically you are always going to have the yahoos out there doing 100 miles an hour to get to the call..this includes other firefighters, EMTs, and yes even the cops. The best you can do is try to work with them, educate them, and hope that the problem is resolved. Good luck!
    Never forget those who went before and sacrified to make us better and stronger as a fire service and a nation. 09-11-01 forever etched in time and our memories. God Speed Boys!

  14. #14
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    Hey George,

    How come anyone that doesn't think Police officers are 100% correct, 100% of the time, automatically become losers in your book. You don't have to take that approach here. Why do you assume that all firefighters are anti-cop? Are ALL cops anti-firefighter? In my experience, they aren't. We all have a job to do. We need to do our job and let our fellow public servants do theirs, without interference and the "I'm in charge here" bulls**t!! I have no problem with working with anyone, but I'm not out on the streets at zero dark thirty just to be abused by some fellow "professional" with a bad attitude.
    We all need to realize that we cannot do it all. We need to work together and also keep in mind that there are a few bad eggs in all professions. Lets drop the anti-ff bias, OK George?

    Stay Safe,

    Jim

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    George Wendt.....didn't you play Norm on Cheers several years ago? Guess the acting biz wasn't too good so your a C.F.I now. Congrats on the career move.

    Your not fighting another anti-cop loser....your fighting your own narrow mindedness. Just because someone doesn't agree with the policing strategies in Anytown, USA doesn't mean people are anti-cop. Not everyone shares your everyone hates cops attitued.

    Perhaps there is a communication breakdown at the top of both agencies as you suggested. I'd say that is exactly what is going on. However, to answer your question as to why shouldn't the Police cancel the Fire Department??? BECAUSE THEY'RE POLICE OFFICERS, NOT FIREFIGHTERS. Sure, if the Officer wants to give a report to the incoming units, or maybe even advise to respond at a reduced rate, fine. How much fire training was offered at the Police Academy?

    It's obvious from some of the other posts here that the battle of the badges lies within other communities as well. Communication at the top is key.

    Lighten up George....I guess since Cheers went off the air the free beer dried up.

  16. #16
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    HEY GEORGE COME ON DOWN NO ONE IS LISTENING ANY MORE
    don,t you go where those huskies go and don,t you eat no yellow snow

  17. #17
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    [quote]Originally posted by Hook-n-Can:
    George Wendt.....didn't you play Norm on Cheers several years ago? Guess the acting biz wasn't too good so your a C.F.I now. Congrats on the career move.

    Your not fighting another anti-cop loser....your fighting your own narrow mindedness. Just because someone doesn't agree with the policing strategies in Anytown, USA doesn't mean people are anti-cop. Not everyone shares your everyone hates cops attitued.

    Perhaps there is a communication breakdown at the top of both agencies as you suggested. I'd say that is exactly what is going on. However, to answer your question as to why shouldn't the Police cancel the Fire Department??? BECAUSE THEY'RE POLICE OFFICERS, NOT FIREFIGHTERS. Sure, if the Officer wants to give a report to the incoming units, or maybe even advise to respond at a reduced rate, fine. How much fire training was offered at the Police Academy?

    It's obvious from some of the other posts here that the battle of the badges lies within other communities as well. Communication at the top is key.

    Lighten up George....I guess since Cheers went off the air the free beer dried up.




    Couple of thoughts here.

    1. I only label people who believe that cops are 100% wrong 100% of the time as anti-cop. I do that when people criticize an officer for doing his job.

    2. I have been a fire fighter for 26 years. I have been a law enforcement officer for 18 years. I come from a family of fire fighters. There is no anti-ff bias here. There is harsh, stark reality with comments and judgement based on facts and experience.

    3. "Call you off" means slow you down not cancel. I apologize for the confusion in vernacular. There is no reason why you should not heed another public safety professional's size up of the situation.

    4. Can somebody honestly say (and back it up) that the majority of police officers have bad attitudes and abuse FF? Because that is what most of you sound like.

    5. Can somebody honest;y tell me that when there is a conflict between the FD and the PD that it is always the PD's fault? Because that is what most of you sound like.

    6. When cops are wrong, I say it. Look at the other thread going on here. I clearly said the cop was wrong. When the cops in MA dressed like FF to go on a raid I clearly said they were wrong.

    7. If I had the $ the other George Wendt had, close to the last thing I would be doing is arguing on an Internet BB.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  18. #18
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    [quote]Originally posted by Hook-n-Can:
    George Wendt.....didn't you play Norm on Cheers several years ago? Guess the acting biz wasn't too good so your a C.F.I now. Congrats on the career move.

    Your not fighting another anti-cop loser....your fighting your own narrow mindedness. Just because someone doesn't agree with the policing strategies in Anytown, USA doesn't mean people are anti-cop. Not everyone shares your everyone hates cops attitued.

    Perhaps there is a communication breakdown at the top of both agencies as you suggested. I'd say that is exactly what is going on. However, to answer your question as to why shouldn't the Police cancel the Fire Department??? BECAUSE THEY'RE POLICE OFFICERS, NOT FIREFIGHTERS. Sure, if the Officer wants to give a report to the incoming units, or maybe even advise to respond at a reduced rate, fine. How much fire training was offered at the Police Academy?

    It's obvious from some of the other posts here that the battle of the badges lies within other communities as well. Communication at the top is key.

    Lighten up George....I guess since Cheers went off the air the free beer dried up.




    Couple of thoughts here.

    1. I only label people who believe that cops are 100% wrong 100% of the time as anti-cop. I do that when people criticize an officer for doing his job.

    2. I have been a fire fighter for 26 years. I have been a law enforcement officer for 18 years. I come from a family of fire fighters. There is no anti-ff bias here. There is harsh, stark reality with comments and judgement based on facts and experience.

    3. "Call you off" means slow you down not cancel. I apologize for the confusion in vernacular. There is no reason why you should not heed another public safety professional's size up of the situation.

    4. Can somebody honestly say (and back it up) that the majority of police officers have bad attitudes and abuse FF? Because that is what most of you sound like.

    5. Can somebody honest;y tell me that when there is a conflict between the FD and the PD that it is always the PD's fault? Because that is what most of you sound like.

    6. When cops are wrong, I say it. Look at the other thread going on here. I clearly said the cop was wrong. When the cops in MA dressed like FF to go on a raid I clearly said they were wrong.

    7. If I had the $ the other George Wendt had, close to the last thing I would be doing is arguing on an Internet BB.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  19. #19
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    the problem is that the attitudes of police officers and firefighters have different attitudes because of their jobs. we don;t deal with criminals as much as police officers do. we figure most people are sick or injured or in peril dure to fire or otherwise. we help people. police officers take people to jail. people don;t like going to jail so they act a lot differently therefore giving the cops the attitudes that they have. they have to be in control and all that stuff. now I am not talking about every cop cause i have a lot of cop firends who are very laid back. but I think you see what I am saying. So they go to these calls and think that they have the authority to cancel us. they don;t you have to contnue and should treat there reports just the same as a civillian unless the police officer is a memeber of the FD and can be trusted to make the right decison. that's all i have to say

  20. #20
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    thank GOD our PD and FD get along so well !!!!!!
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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