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  1. #1
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    Post Speaking of police officers...

    That's funny you guys mention that, b/c at our last house fire, the chief arrives on the scene to hear the sound of breaking glass. He screams "Who the hell is breaking glass?" And PD quietly walks around from the back of the house. The chief asks them why, and their answer is "What if there is someone inside and sleeping or something?" So the chief turns around to the homeowner and asks him if everyone is accounted for, and the homeowner says yes. So the chief and the 2 officers get into an argument about why he shouldn't be breaking windows, and this officer comes off like it's his responsbility to search for victims. It's all on film, and very interesting to watch. I wonder what their motives could be to breaking windows? There was no chance of them getting anymore than 3 feet inside this house, it was pushing with smoke. If they are gonna try venting they should have to take a class like I did! Oh, and our department never recieved a meesage from any PD unit stating we had work. Sometimes, people should just know their roles....


  2. #2
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    WoW! Even though I don't know the specific's of how many FD units were on scene, it sounds like they had the "ol' hero" syndrome. Break the glass, save a baby, get in the papers, etc.

    PD (that I've run into on occasion) usually would atleast give a transmission of;
    ". . . tell fd to step it up"
    ". . . rush fd for a working fire (if they're good w/ the lingo)
    " . . . give the fire depardment a forthwith"

    Police Officers breaking glass? Your Chief Officer / ICO should have asked for a PD supervisor, and told him/her how they're impeding of an active fire suppression effort, and could of gotten people killed, and not gotten off the issue until a PD supervisor listened and reacted favorably.

    Do we tell them how to catch criminal's? They're job at the scene of an active fire operation should be to work with the fire police in keeping the public at a safe distance and directing non-FD related vehicles away from the scene, as well as possibly evacuating persons from non-fire involved buildings.
    May God bless all the people and families who have lost
    their lives on 9-11-01, to those also lost on Flight 587, and to the rescuers who responded to both.

    "I'm not saying it's right, i'm just saying (the way it is)."

    FDNY-EMS - Still New York's Best!

    e-mail always accepted @
    toneloc177@firehousemail.com

  3. #3
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    Smile

    We all know the police always use good judgement....just as we firefighters do. Now a word of caution.....old Norm from Cheers (aka George Wendt) will brand you as a cop hating firefighting loser if you don't watch it.

  4. #4
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    [quote]Originally posted by Hook-n-Can:
    We all know the police always use good judgement....just as we firefighters do. Now a word of caution.....old Norm from Cheers (aka George Wendt) will brand you as a cop hating firefighting loser if you don't watch it.


    Ya know, Hook, you really are a moron.

    The only time I have called people on being anti-cop is when they criticize an officer for doing his job, which is enforcing the law. Go back and read all my posts and you will see that when a police officer is wrong, I tell it like it is.

    For example, in this case. Assuming that CIFD is telling the truth, and I have no reason to believe that he is not, this cop was a stupid jackass. If I were his supervisor, he would get days off. It's sounds like unnecesary destruction of property. He's wrong. Period.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  5. #5
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    i don;t know but if i had a worker i think the windows would be coming out. and it dosen;t matter what the head of household or whomevers says thateveryone is accounted for you still search. why? because one night this girl had a sleepover and their house caught fire, and the father said everyone was out of the house at 330 in the morning when he was a sleep and is now watching his house burn down. but lo he forgot that his daughter was having a friend stay over and she dies because they didn;t search. but that dosen;t make it right for the cops.

  6. #6
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    Boy, Halligan, you must get a lot of work in Skowhegan, ME...Without being a dirtbag, here's some beginner's fire knowledge. You should never take windows in a building unless you are venting for life, or venting to allow heat and smoke (and sometimes fire) to escape from a structure. Cleaning out every window for no reason doesn't help, and could very well hurt, by feeding the fire more oxygen and letting it grow. Also, the homeowner's information does adjust my fire dpeartment's method of attack, because if the homeowner says that everyone is accounted for, the first in crew will focus more on extinguishment. If there is a life hazard, however, that first crew is gonna be searching every clean room they can get into to make a grab on someone. Anyone want to back me up?

    P.S. I had a run in with the officer today...I didn't get to say much though, b/c he slept the last 2 hours of his shift away in the firehouse.

  7. #7
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    Exclamation

    If I can humbly offer my opinion on the subject. The agency I work for is a "public safety" deparment. Simply put, the taxpayers decided that it would be better to hire firefighters and put them through cop school or visa versa. So, I have been through cop school and can speak from both sides of the firehose. Most of the true cops have little to no idea about what is going on in a real fire, but, are impregnated with the idea of "I HAVE to do SOMETHING". This leads to some form of action, be it right or wrong. Now, your officer was totaly wrong and should have been directing traffic or getting the doughnuts, not playing with the windows.

    Please don't take that as cop-bashing. Like I said, I'm also a cop (but a Firefighter/EMT first and foremost ) Perhaps your agencies could get together and have some type of awareness training. FD could teach the cops about what is going on on a fire scene and how best the cops can help. On the other hand, the cops could teach about what they need us to do on a crime scene. I mean if we all are going to be onscene together anyway, why not make the best of it?

    Stay safe,
    Bless all of our Fallen Brothers and Sisters. You will not be forgotten

  8. #8
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    Well I know the police officer was in the wrong for breaking the window, but that activity has passed now and the officer in question won't do it again. But now lets all look to the future and get some officers in to teach them a little on how we would like them to handle a working structure fire. This is a widely untapped resource, I mean how are they going to know to not break windows if we don't tell them. They are usually out driveing around so they are closer plus their cars go a litttle faster than a Peirce Custom pumper so tell them to get on scene meet with the people that were on scene and have them really info to yall on if anyone is trapped, if size and extent of fire and if a hydrant is near. My fire department had some police officers come in and tell us how they would like us to handle crime scenes which is their area of expritise, I know I personally wouldn't have thought to not turn the tv off or where to step at a crime scene if they hadn't told us, now we work quite well as a TEAM at calls.

  9. #9
    Senior Member postal79's Avatar
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    well with the window breaking to me it depends, if the fire is on the other end of the house anf you go breaking windows on the other end what are you going to do?? your going to feed the fire and drag it through the house, if there was someone in that window who couldnt get out then yes break it, we have had situations where there is fire rolling out the windows and the police on scene advise dispatch to have FD step it up, then most will block the road waiting our arrival so we can lay hose

  10. #10
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    yes, I know about venting and theat if you vent to early you can cause a number of problems. I was not saying that they were right. and you don;t know my background or anything about how many runs my department does so back off on that one. And Yes you are right it does help but you still need to search at some point and early on in the fire. ok zippy?

  11. #11
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    Well I have a few words for our fellow brothers and sisters in the Law Enforcement Biz. The ones here are great. They understand that its not their job and thats our job. The do traffic control and support us in our operations.

    The tables can be turned though. We help them with whatever they need. If he needs info from the Pt. we hang around till he gets it so he doesnt have to get it at the hospital. If its bad he understands and we take off. If they need lights we provide them. If Swat needs a standby for EMS and rehab we do it and make sure they are taken care of.

    I guess its where ever you work. We work well with the police and they work well with us. The only problem we have had is with the state police but its never with the regular police we work with.

  12. #12
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    I guess I must be spoiled being in a state police covered area, we generally get there first (unless it's on the highway) so we don't have to deal with these things.

    However, someone posted earlier about an awareness training. My advice, try it you'll like it! We had a little meeting with the powers that be out of our local SP Barracks and got things from their point of view and they got it from ours. Things improved dramatically after that. Of course with rotation of barracks assignments, new fd members, etc, some the the 'educated' have moved on and it is approaching time to hold the meeting again this year.

    One thing to consider when deciding whether or not have this meeting with your pd, remember this. In the situation that started this topic, the PO took the window. Assume now fire gets pulled through the house, guess who gets the bad wrap - the FD! It is in your best interest to try and do some sort of sharing of knowledge. In a time where public safety jobs have drawn even more attention we need to do all we can to make each and every scene run a smooth as possible!

    BTW - George, how's your Fire Official making out since his accident last week?

    Stay Safe!

  13. #13
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    Come on George....moron? Is that the best you can do? Again, because someone doesn't agree with your narrow minded views, you feel the need to resort to name calling. You know the arrogant, bad attitude cops that have been mentioned here??? If the shoe fits, wear it. Like you said, Police Officers jobs are to enforce the law. Nuff Said.

  14. #14
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    I may stir up a hornets nest with this. But, i think that you need to have a class or meeting with both fire and police present and set up protocols for both departments on what to do at fire scenes and crime scenes and make it manditory that everyone attends and follows the protocols to the best of their abilities. Every one needs to work togeather. If this can possibly happen both departments will be able to do better jobs and save more lives.
    Thanks for letting me spout off. Larry

  15. #15
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    Lightbulb

    Having been a police officer, firefighter, coroner, newpaper columnist, lawyer, instructor, training officer, and all around handsome guy, I can probably say with all certainty that the officer had no idea why what he did was wrong, and the fire officer at the scene was too hot to think about what he was telling the officer, ergo the argument.

    What should have been done was to have a meeting with the two heads of the departments and the officer for some cross-training. I'd give odds that the best interior attack firefighter out there will have little or no clue about many aspects of a police officer's job, and I know from experience that most police officers know just as much about the firefighter functions, and the how's and why's of firefighting.

    It all boils down to the firefighters and the police doing that which we want to do, which is to help. However, when we lob names at each other, close the door to educating the other side, or listening to the other side, we fail to do our job to the best of our abilities.

    It does not take more than a few minutes to explain ventilation, and I bet if it were explained, the police officer would never whack out another window again, no matter how many people he thinks might be in a home.

    By the way, I am not advocating 'trying a little tenderness' here. I am just trying to end this name-calling misunderstood thread with a little common sense (kinda like Larry, there, before me).

    The Doc is out now.
    General McAuliffe said it best, "Nuts".

  16. #16
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    People...People...Easy !

    In most cases Police Officers will be the first to arrive at Structure Fires and I would hope that instinct would kick in and they would take out a window IF a Life Hazzard existed and make the rescue if the conditions on the inside are tollerable. ~ On the Other Hand if the resident/homeowner says everone is accounted for than a police officer has no business breaking out windows. ~ What everyone should remember is that we're all in this to help the public {either police or firefighters} I'm not a police officer but I know a few and they will all tell you that if a life hazzard is involved they will make attempts to affect a rescue. And I would hope they would. You guys that make the comments about firefighters getting involved in car pursuits are just wrong there's no reason for that. ~ If I'm correct part of a police officers job is the protection of life right ? So if a P/O is first on the scene he/she is the first line of defense and therefore should make the rescue if they can safely make it
    ***The Opinions expressed here are strictly my own and do not reflect those of the Department to which I am a Member ! ***

    Stratford Fire Co. # 1.."Any Job ~ Any Place ~ Any Time"

    Check us Out www.stratfordfire.com

  17. #17
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    r u serious? PLease! Now I've heard everything! Enough with your embelishing on the facts there Doc.!

    [quote]"all around handsome guy"


    I heard that you were just a 'round guy'.




    (just a little colorful humor to break up the tension)
    May God bless all the people and families who have lost
    their lives on 9-11-01, to those also lost on Flight 587, and to the rescuers who responded to both.

    "I'm not saying it's right, i'm just saying (the way it is)."

    FDNY-EMS - Still New York's Best!

    e-mail always accepted @
    toneloc177@firehousemail.com

  18. #18
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    Your best friend on the street other then a FF is PD,and PD best friend on the street other then PD is a FF..When a situation arises you look out for each other.Most people without FF training dont have a clue on premature venting at a fire.Im sure
    if a class were given at PD academies on what NOT TO DO when PD arives first at a fire this discussion would not be going on . PD is just trying to do the right thing. They just dont no how. They need to be educated by the fire service in a class room setting.
    STAY LOW - STAY SAFE

  19. #19
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    Aw geez, Tone, you musta seen me somewhere, and I thought I hid out so good!

    I'm working on that round part, though. Trying that Jared/Clay Henry/Subway diet. Day three now. I miss food! (every hour on the hour, that is)



    The Doc is out now.
    General McAuliffe said it best, "Nuts".

  20. #20
    Senior Member FDNYRR's Avatar
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    Cool

    WOW!!!!! This is a super debate. But seriously folks, the Police have their hands so full of **** already, they don't need more from Firefighters too. In rural and suburban areas they are the first line, most firefighters being volunteers in these areas...aside from a 100% fire, they have no authority. In these cases believce it or not, relationships are better. In most large Urban areas, much to the oppossed view of one of the posters, Firefighters "DO" have Law Enforcement status. Again in most Urban areas, folks are subject to a lot more crime statistics, therefor pushing the PD's to have more responsibility is tossing them a bone. "Jacks of all Trades are Masters of None". I have worked with some exceptional PD Officers who know their bounds, and at the same time some Exceptional FF's who have tempers that are too hot. The reverse is about equal......but if your local politicians want the PD to do your job.....they'll overlook any misfortunes that take place when they do. I know this as FACT we've documented over 4,000 instances where PD gave someone from Fire the usual....."ok we'll take it from here" routine.
    So my thoughts are simply, leave the PD alone, their only doing what they are urged to do, whether silently or openly. Go after your local politicians.....and oh yeh!....I hope you have more luck then we did!!!!! FDNYRR
    "All gave some...Some gave all!"
    9/11/01 Lest we forget!
    FDNYRR

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