I spoke with a marketing person at Amtech, the supplier of the NY/NJ EZ-Pass toll equipment. They are working with the Advanced Concepts groups of two auto manufacturers to develop uses for RFID tags. Detroit already uses the RFID systems in both production vehicles and in their factories. New applications involving the use of RFID tags in all production cars are being considered.
One thing we, the Fire Service, need to do, if we want to see this VSDS information made available to us, is to develop support for the idea. Detroit will have to hear from thousands of us, and possibly receive a mandate from Washington, before we will see much interest in the VSDS concept from the auto industry. Having presenters or instructors at FDIC and Firehouse Expo mention the VSDS idea might be a way to get started. Any other suggestions?
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02-27-1999, 04:32 AM #21PhredFirehouse.com Guest
02-28-1999, 09:30 PM #22TRUCK 110Firehouse.com Guest
Ron: Seeing I work in the Auto Industry, my solution or start is Simple..There are 3 major manufacturers in the US. At my particular Facility, we build the same model, with Cosmetic changes in places in the Auto or Truck. We build 3 models with the same Body style. You got one, you got the same one for all Three Models. Now just simply use a Key Number or sign to denote the Maker. You now need a sheet for the model. Let's use the Internet to download and disperse the sheets to our Fire Departments. Like in Haz-Mat, Methyl Ethyl Awful is the same Chemical, regardless of the container it is in, as long as the placard matches the product.
03-18-1999, 05:20 PM #23PhredFirehouse.com Guest
Are we getting our cart too far out in front of our horse? We might be spending too much effort on trying to design the hardware when we should be promoting the basic idea. Before we can convince the automakers to support this idea and develop the hardware, we have got to obtain a lot of support for the concept within the Fire & Rescue Services. Only a few have written posts in support of the VSDS Project; what about the rest of the Firehouse Fraternity out there -- do you agree that we need this type of information on the scene?
If you think this is a valid, sound and necessary information requirement -- then let us hear from you. Post a quick note of support for the project. This is one way to help prevent future Dayton incidents from happening to you or your Firefighters.
03-18-1999, 07:13 PM #24LifeRescueFirehouse.com Guest
I agree the VSDS is an excellent resource particularly when dealing with new vehicles. With today's economy, there are more new vehicles on the roads, and there is not enough time or resources available for all emergency services personnel to become familiar with these vehicles. The VSDS would provide a a quick source of information on the vehicle, much like a pre-plan does when responding to a structure fire or hazmat incident. The only question remains is how to implement it on the vehicle. But like the man says, the vehicle manufacturers are going to have to be convinced it is needed before it even begins to happen.
[This message has been edited by LifeRescue (edited March 18, 1999).]
03-19-1999, 01:15 AM #25natemarshallFirehouse.com Guest
Great idea. It would also have to be able to accept multiple cars because of the increasing amount of multicar accidenst and pileups.
03-19-1999, 10:43 AM #26DschimmelFirehouse.com Guest
Ron I think its an excellant idea. I am on a Squad in New jersey and am a representative ot the New Jersey State First Aid Concil an organization the represents over 450 squad. If you would like, when this get closer to implimentation, I will seek the support of the organization.
03-26-1999, 02:30 PM #27rmooreFirehouse.com Guest
A Posting from Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
The VSDS idea is gaining in exposure to fire services around the world. Recently I
corresponded with Mr Greg Bain from Australia. In addition to being a firefighter, Greg is President of ANRARA (Australian National Road Accident Rescue
They have web page at www.anrara.org.au
Here's Greg's words about a new procedure being used down under.
"I meant to tell you about a simple system that my fire service has developed for to help notify on scene and post scene people of an un-deployed SRS air bag. It is a roll of
adhesive tape, about 6" wide and printed with a warning message. The tape is bright
Safety Yellow, black writing and a basic message... "This vehicle has an un-deployed
SRS Air Bag and there is a possible DANGER."
This roll is issued to all of our rescue stations, and we place these notices onto
windows, body parts, or dashboards to best display the warning".
If you feel like commenting to Greg about this sticker idea, his email is;
04-07-1999, 05:00 PM #28medic187Firehouse.com Guest
Excellent idea!! I am of the opinion that this should be a two prong approach.(Don't go into a situation with only one plan.) I feel that the original concept of affixing labels with basic info is needed to assist those that may not have the resources to have lap tops on their equipment. My choice for a second line is the bar code. Most vehicles built today already have a bar code affixed to them for warranty and ID purposes,so it should require a minimum of effort on the part of manufacturers to add rescue/extrication to this already exsisting library.(GM places bar codes on the VIN plate,lower left corner of the dash, visible and scannable through the windsheild.
04-19-1999, 10:11 PM #29LouFirehouse.com Guest
Great Idea, but keep it simple. This way no one would have an excuse for not getting the information when needed. Someone had mentioned behind the gas cap, I vote for this. Also behind the rear license plate holder. No one would ever have to see it, but with a screwdriver it could be removed very simple and exposed. With these two locations on a car, a rescuer would almost always be able to obtain this info.
04-22-1999, 01:27 AM #30cp-nyFirehouse.com Guest
I think the VSDS is a great idea. It requires simplicity and accessability. I am in favor of a hybrid method. I like the idea of the VSDS information accessible on-line in a standard format along with the original placard/label idea originally mentioned containing essential info. What I'm thinking is that the info contained on the placard would provide sufficient information for many incidents. For incidents requiring a lot of cutting, etc., more detailed information could be made available on-line via a lap-top computer and cellular line. In addition, if a rescue company cannot purchase these items, the same information could be made available from dispatch, or 'fire control' via radio while the vehicle is being stabilized. A standard procedure on responding to an auto accident would involve notifying dispatch immediately of car make, model, year(which is also on the new yellow placard in 2 locations) or VIN number, etc. for database cross-reference. Dispatch could then standby with info if more technical details are needed. This system could be upgradeable to include a bar code reading device or similar. Maybe the best thing is to start this out in the most simple manner - the 2 yellow placards. It may be easier to push this through. After this system has been in place upgrade to the next idea. If this sounds good, concentrate on locations of placards, symbols to use, etc.
06-12-1999, 03:21 AM #31S. CookFirehouse.com Guest
Just wondering the status of this project. It is a great idea.
Has anyone spoken to the Big 3 for their comments?
What about starting with a simple MSDS type sheet carried in a preplan type book? That way we could get information on cars from the last 10 or 15 years (I realize it may take an extra minute to get to the right page).
This would also give us the info we need/want while still deciding the best place to put it in the new cars.
06-13-1999, 11:45 PM #32rmooreFirehouse.com Guest
A VSDS Update From Ron Moore
The July edition of the University of Extrication will feature the VSDS story. What is exciting is that this is the magazine that will be given out to attendees at Firehouse Expo.
Two important things;
1) There will be a sample artist's sketch of what a VSDS form could look like. Problem is, until i actually tried to draw the thing, i never realized that there had to be two different views of the vehicle.
In the sketch, you'll see a view looking down on a vehicle from directly overhead. You'll also see the second view dooking broadside at the driver's side. Let me know what you think of this first attempt.
2) Secondly, the location for the VSDS needs to be finalized. Many support behind the rear license plate while others support it being on the sun visor like where that airbag safety message is now.
The spot we agreed on for one placard is under the hood. Chances are you have to get there anyway.
I hope this July article will really get things rolling! Talk it up!
07-26-2006, 12:50 PM #33
- Join Date
- Aug 2004
Ron, 100% support from North of the border. There seems to be some awsome ideas out there so I will give my 2 cents for what its worth. We all know that one of our first evolutions at a MVA is to disconnect the power to the vehicle. It is a fact that the batteries are not all under the hood but with that note we still have to find the battery or batteries to disconnect the power whether it me in the fender well or in the trunk or under the back seat. Our own safety relies on it. So why can't we go to the very first idea that Ron had on either being sheets in a little packet or the stickers being placed close to the same area as the battery. Of course it would have to be placed in another location. Under the hood would be great because not all the time but most we are going to be getting that hood open however possible because that's the first place to look for the battery. Just thought i'd put in my 2 cents.
08-07-2006, 08:39 AM #34
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
Support for VSDS, RFID, Barcode info
This discussion has come up many times over the past 10 years or so in Extrication classes. Many of the cars already have barcodes near the VIN number and it was thought that this idea may have the most support. However this may be rendered useless in an accident when that location is hit and no longer readable by a scanner. The VSDS is simple but also requires close contact to the vehicle to retrive the sheet. The RFID , it would seem would be the best as it would not require contact with the vehicle. If the chips were installed in all cars, the service personnel would be able to get a fast accurate reading on the vehicle and perhaps auto enter into a service form ( selling point ) If the police had access, they would also be able to pull up a vehicle without a lot of hand entry and mistakes, another selling point. As more of these readers are needed they would become cheaper, which would lower the cost to the smaller departments. I hope the manufacturers will support this, It is a win win for all.
08-08-2006, 03:33 AM #35
- Join Date
- May 2002
- Irondequiot, N.Y.
Great idea Ron. I have another suggestion for the second location. On the back side of the drivers side visor. It would be easy to get to even if the vehicle is on it's roof. Just a thought.
I would like to get involved in this in any way I can.
08-29-2006, 07:10 PM #36
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
Great Idea, Already in the Works
This idea is very similar to that of which I have submitted to the NTSB and to the US Patent office for creation of what would be called the Triple RC (Rapid Rescue Response Card) I have submitted over 500 photo's of crashes showing that driver sun visors seem to be a place that can be accesed in many instances without any work. This decal would be located on an extension of the visor that most cars already have. It would be easliy removed so the rescurer could remove it, step back and come up with a plan of attack. I also have been working with and High End auto manufacture (who I have relationships with in upper management) to come out with a test version of this. Just thought you might like this info.
11-29-2007, 03:02 PM #37
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
Ron, I agree with you about creating a VSDS..This would be so helpful with newer vehicle extrication..
12-08-2007, 12:28 AM #38
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
Ron, the VSDS would be the best thing to happen to rescue squads since hydraulic tools. The problem is that the sales pitch needs to go to the manufacturer. You may want to talk to Todd Hoffman about this, as he has mentioned it before. He says that the problem is with the manufacturers wanting to fork up the mere pennies to make this happen.
02-27-2008, 09:20 PM #39
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
This is a great idea, but what about all of the cars already out there. Would it be possible to make a version of the erg (emergency response guide book) to cover new and old model cars? just a thought.
03-04-2008, 03:18 PM #40
- Join Date
- Jan 2005
Great Ideas, keep them coming. I'm onboard.
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