Thread: Semi-truck extricatio
10-02-1999, 10:29 AM #1billyFirehouse.com Guest
Specically what problems do you experience with heavy trucks? Please reply, as this information will be put into future trng. programs.
Please try to seperate the problems into categories:
Stabilization, upright, inverted
Any personal experiences are welcome.
10-05-1999, 10:21 PM #2Ron ShawFirehouse.com Guest
I think the major problem in our area is the availibility of the trucks to use. What would be nice if the industry got together and provided a traveling extrication program to each state. The same program would be taught, thus establishing a standard just like Carbusters has done for the passenger vehicles.
Presentations would be professionally developed and could be released for instructors who have taken the program to use within their own programs.
The industry could also link us to availible trucks to acquire for training through the insurance companies' totals.
I know Billy you have access to vehicles and heavy equipment to use in the training, but for us up north in our area it's not availible.
For those in MA that have access let us know and we can put on a class and perhaps invite Billy (Leach) to come as a guest instructor.
For those of you who don't know of Billy he has a company Emergency Service Education Fire/Rescue Training, Ashboro, NC. Billy has also coauthored a truck extrication manual which really gets in to winching for those in that field.
10-08-1999, 03:00 PM #3resqbFirehouse.com Guest
Billy good topic. I spent 5 years in the sales and parts of med. & heavy trucks. Accessibility is difficult at best with these beasts but it seems to me the easiest place to open up is the rear of the sleeper, only one layer of sheet metal.
Disentanglement:Getting to the driver might be easier by remmoving the seats(held down with bolts). The height of the vehicle creates problems in and of itself. A good A frame ladder is very useful.
Patient removal:Try to bring the patient out feet first, it's more comfortable (learned that a few weeks ago).
Hazard Control:I'm sure that in your experience you've seen wax toilet rings used to stop leaks in fuel tanks and lines. Also the batteries are almost always located on the frame rails.
Really the biggest problem I've seen with these vehicle keeps coming back to height. We need to work at a higher point in order to do the same thing we do with cars. I also agree with Ron that we don't get to work with vehicles of size that much in training, but we do our best with what we've got like always. stay safe.
10-13-1999, 06:58 AM #4HvyFire13Firehouse.com Guest
In my experience of large truck extrications, I to have found that the rear window is one of the best accessability points. Its a good thing to remember that large truck extrications are very lengthy operations, so when the weather goes to extremes, be mindful of your people and rotate crews if you have the people, we tend to think of rehab only in fireground operations but it goes both ways. Also large trucks are reinforced EVERYWHERE! so there is a possibility of heavy cutting. The height of these rigs also plays into the picture, as mentioned by RESQB, an "A" frame ladder works great, we had a class taught at our station for packaging and removing patients from large trucks, the "A" frame ladder lets you place the foot of the backboard on a step and reposition for the lift of the patient onto the stretcher. This technique works fantastic. Although we didn't get to do any cutting on the truck,it was good experience.
If any of your members are truck drivers or have friends that are truck drivers ask them to ask their employer if they can bring a rig down so your people can get familiar with the location of equipment inside the cab, this has possed problems for us before. The drivers can usally give you a pretty good tour of where things are located and various other stuff such as battery location, shut offs for air, that brings up another point, air ride seats can also poss a problem. Make sure you crib these at the height you want them before you start moving you patient.
Resqb, I have a comment and a question to ask you while I'm here. Comment first, never heard of the wax toilet seal ring for plugging fuel leaks in tanks and lines, thanks for the suggestion! Question.... Would it work on oil pan leaks? We had an incident on Interstate 81 in Maryland last night where a big rig ran into a flat bed and punctured the oil pan, after waiting for it to drain and realizing that it wasn't going to anytime soon we built a dam out of kitty litter and pulled the plug, just so we could clean up and get traffic rolling again. Do you or any one else out there know of anything that could be used to plug this type of leak?
Sorry So Long.
Take care and be safe everyone.
10-13-1999, 07:50 AM #5resqbFirehouse.com Guest
Hvyfire13 greetings from 200 miles north. Depending on the size of the leak a wax ring should work, but those pans get awfully warm. Tonight when when I go to work I'll try it on the pan of the rig when we get back from a run. We also carry golf tees and my former dept. carried soft rubber toy balls with a bolt thru it (the bolts with the spring loaded flanges that go thru a hole in the wall, sorry I can't remember the correct term for them). Remember, every run is different so we have to stay flexible. I'm glad I was able to help, because thats what this forum is all about.
By the way I do not take credit for any of these hints. I mostly see the ideas of others, use them, and pass them on if they work.
[This message has been edited by resqb (edited October 13, 1999).]
10-13-1999, 12:49 PM #6HvyFire13Firehouse.com Guest
Resqb, Thanks for the tips, the rubber ball with the bolt & spring loaded flanges sounds like an outstanding idea, I'm going to try and make some up and test them out for myself. It took me a minute to get a picture of what you were talking about but once I got it the light went from flickering to REAL bright Thanks again for the input and let me know how the wax ring works on a hot oil pan.
10-14-1999, 04:12 PM #7resqbFirehouse.com Guest
I have to apologize, we were out several times last night and I completely forgot to do that. I won't go back in till next Tuesday (4x4 schedule and a holiday). I'll get back to you, but if somebody else wants to see if it'll stick to a hot pan please let me know how it goes.
10-14-1999, 09:44 PM #8DDFirehouse.com Guest
It is called a toggle bolt.
10-17-1999, 12:27 AM #9cp-nyFirehouse.com Guest
It may have been mentioned, but in case it has not it should be noted that Billy Leach (the guy at the front of this posting) is holding a 3-day class on heavy rescue in North Carolina. I don't know if there are restrictions on the number of students, but you can email him at email@example.com .
[This message has been edited by cp-ny (edited October 17, 1999).]
10-17-1999, 09:49 PM #10billyFirehouse.com Guest
The program wiull be held at Wilkes Comm. College in Wilkesboro, Nc. Very low cost. Contact Bobby Gentry at 336-838-6215. He has all the registration info.
[This message has been edited by billy (edited October 17, 1999).]
10-18-1999, 02:06 PM #11fridayFirehouse.com Guest
Wish I had something to contribute to Billy's question, but need to ask Ron Shaw a question. In order to obtain "totals" from the insurance industry, can that be arranged through local agents? I ask because after attempting to set up demos of all the extrication tools I could find reference to, TNT, Hurst, Holmatro, and Amkus are coming and we need to obtain vehicles to try them on and the local wrecker services can only supply so many. A challenging heavy rig extrication would be just the ticket. Any information would be greatly appreciated and I would be happy to forward to Billy or you any info we obtain from cutting up medium or heavy trucks. Would also like to try to obtain a schoolbus or three to practice on and this sounds like a promising way to obtain them. Info forwarded will probably be limited to text as I do this from home and have no way to enter graphics, but will share anything I can. Capt. Dan
[This message has been edited by friday (edited October 18, 1999).]
10-22-1999, 08:17 AM #12resqbFirehouse.com Guest
Hvyfire13...wax ring sticks to pan but it gets awfully gooey. Don't know if it'll hold a leak if it's hot. Someone will just have to experiment, to see if it would work in the real world...Stay safe.
10-23-1999, 03:59 PM #13Ron ShawFirehouse.com Guest
I am sorry for not responding to your reply sooner, maintaing my own web site keeps me extremely busy and don't always have the chance to come over the Ron's Forum.
I would start by approaching your state insurance commissioner, State Farm Insurance Company does a lot with crash testing they might be very respetive especially if it was done on a state or regional training level.
I know Ron Moore has been through the process so you can even ask him what the best route is. If you need more information Billy knows where to get in touch with me.
11-05-1999, 05:13 PM #14Ken MetzlerFirehouse.com Guest
Howdy Billy, On several ocasions we have had difficulty with stabilization as well as patient removal. 1) cab over that was involved in a roll over and the driver was horizontal on the seat and the truck on its top. The problem was the moter had broken loose and the doghouse and motor were on top of him, we called for a local winch truck( we are very fortunate to have access to some very large oil field equipment) and punched through the floor and chained to the engine. As we lifted the weight off the driver we then spread the roof away and removed him. 2)Had a body recovery on a roll over , the problem was we could not get a proper angle to set up winch lines and lift, as we tried to lift, the angle started to skid the wrecker and winch truck. Plan B took longer used air bags... and lifted off. 3) We had a complete under ride of a super cab Ford pulling a 6 horse trailer with a flat bed hay trailer. We used the winch truck to lift the trailer off the Ford and did a dash lift on both sides and extricate the driver. Point is we use our wrecker and winch truck drivers a bunch, when it comes to the big stuff they are the experts in the field an we do a lot of cross training with them. Remember the resourses are out there and MAKE YOUR FRIENDS BEFORE YOU NEED THEM. Our problems have been in the areas of stabilization and gaining access, generaly have not had to many concerns when it came to cutting or spreading. Give me a call I have a bunch of slides of so real grinder truck wrecks Adios Ken
11-08-1999, 10:39 PM #15RES6TRKFirehouse.com Guest
IT HAS BEEN MY EXPERIENCE RUNNING THE I-70 AND 1-81 INTERSTATES THAT STABILIZATIION, HAZARD CONTROL AND DISENTANGLEMENT ARE THE PROBLEMS I HAVE ENCOUNTERED AS BOTH A RESCUE TECHNICIAN AND A RESCUE SQUAD OFFICER.
STABILIZATIION CONTINUES TO BE THE NUMBER #1 PROBLEM AT ANY VEHICLE ACCIDENT. IS A VEHICLE SETTING ON ALL FOUR WHEELS STABLE? NO ONE CARRIES ENOUGH CRIBBING FOR EXTENSIVE PASSENGER VEHICLE STABILIZATION, LET ALONE FOR A SEMI WITH THE TRAILER ATTACHED. RESOURSE LIST ARE ESSENTIAL FOR ADDITIONAL LUMBER (6X6) TO STABILIZE A TRACTOR AND THE TRAILER. DO YOU AS PART OF YOUR STABILIZATION CHOCK THE WHEELS? ARE YOU TRAINING WITH YOUR LOCAL HEAVY TOWING AGENCIES? I HAVE MET WITH SUCCESS TRAINING WITH THESE PEOPLE AND USING THEM ON INCIDENTS. HAZARD CONTROL WITH RUPTURED SADDLE TANKS, PUNCTURED OIL PANS AND LETS NOT FORGET CARGO. MEDICAL WASTE, HAZARDOUS MATERIALS, LIVESTOCK, REFRIGERATED TRAILERS ALL POSE A DIFFERENT WAY OF THINKING AND RESPONSE. OK NOW WE HAVE TAKEN CARE OF ALL THESE NOW HOW DO WE DISENTANGLE THEM? THERE IS NOT A WHOLE LOT OF ROOM INSIDE ONE OF THESE VEHICLES, NOW CONSIDER THAT THE DRIVER IS LIVING ON THE ROAD AND HAS CLOTHS, RADIOS, COOLER, ETC. ALL THROWN AROUND INSIDE THE CRUSHED CAB. MOST DOORS I HAVE WORKED WITH ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. IT'S EVERYTHING INSIDE. YOU HAVE TO PHYSICALLY GET INSIDE AND LOOK, RUN YOUR HANDS OVER THE PATIENT AND FIND HOW THEY ARE TRAPPED. YOU MAY HAVE RESORT TO HANDTOOLS, SAW-ZALLS, AIR BAGS ETC. TO ACHEIVE THE GOAL. ON THE ISSUE OF HEIGHT HAVE YOU CONSTRUCTED A PLATFORM OF BOX CRIBBING, PLACE A ROOF LADDER ON THE BOX CRIBBING AND PLACE BACKBOARDS OR GROUND PADS ON THE LADDER FORMING A LOW LEVEL SCAFFOLING TO BRING YOU TO A BETTER WORKING LEVEL TO REMOVE YOUR BACKBOARDED PATIENT? THIS REQUIRES MORE CRIBBING, LIKE I SAID YOU NEVER HAVE ENOUGH CRIBBING FOR THIS TYPE OF INCIDENT.
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