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  1. #1
    Todd Trimble
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question Hydraulic Tool Power Sources

    Ok, gang, I read a couple of suggestions in the "Combi tools or dedicated tools" tread highly reccommending electric power units. I'd like to know what you're using now and if you'd spec an electric unit if you could go back and try again.

    We're currently running a single-pump gas unit to power our tools (Maverick combi, big scissors-style cutter and an assortment of rams). We also have a 1->3 manifold block if we want to connect more than one tool at a time, but beware, that doesn't mean we can actually operate more than one tool at a time. (That's what we thought when we bought it. Wrong.)

    We may be updating our power unit in the near-term and I wondered what size generator you guys that have one are running on the truck to power it. I'd have to do some math, but my gut feeling is that our 5500W genset would need a little more beef if we asked it to run a hydralic pump in addition to the floodlights and cord-reels and whatnot that it handles now.

    Thanks for any thoughts!

    ------------------
    Todd Trimble
    Fairland Volunteer Fire Department




  2. #2
    billy
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs up

    I strongly suggest that you take a serious look at the Westerbeke XRT unit. This is an electrical generator (remote start) that can supply up to THREE hydraulic tools (your choice of mfg.) with NO power loss. HRT can be used while generating electrical power. This unit is what a would spec for a replacement or installation on a new truck.

  3. #3
    e33
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    On our '92 Mack/E-One we have 2 Hurst electric simo pumps which are operated from the onboard electric system from the 35kw PTO gen. The pumps feed 4 116' reels (2 each). The pumps allow tool isolation with seperate dump valves and we have a manifold system hooked up and ready to attach to one of the lines.

    The nice part is the pumps are up in the "ceiling" of the compartment leaving us a full area for storage.




    The area just above each compartment is an open void space containing 1 electric reel, and 2 hydraulic reels per side. These compartments are directly opposite each other on the truck.

    In compartment 2 you can see the gas power unit, behind that is a spare electric unit than can be used at greater distances from the truck or in an industrial application. It gives us the options to be multi capable. With both of these units the preconnected manifold system is used to allow for a 2 tool operation.

    ------------------
    The opinions and views expressed herin are solely mine and not on the behalf of any department or organization I belong to.


    [This message has been edited by e33 (edited January 13, 2000).]

  4. #4
    jamcmullan
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    We have a small Phoenix electric-over-hydraulic pump in our QRV (a Suburban) with a Hurst Roadrunner combi-tool. The pump is run off of the truck's electrical system (we have a second battery installed and high-idle). I admit that this is not the strongest set-up, but it can handle 90% of the extrications that we have. It's on our first-out truck, so it's on the scene fast, and the trigger-switch start is great.

    Hope this helps... Happy cutting!

  5. #5
    Batt #2
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Arrow

    We have both a gas unit and electric unit. Us the electric unit 95 % of the time.
    think about staying 220 volt also to split the amp. draw to two legs instead of one leg like 110volts.

  6. #6
    MetalMedic
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Wink

    Todd brings out a good point... before you buy a "simo" power unit with the intentions of using more than one tool at a time, make sure you try them out in a demo first. Don't let the tool rep try to work one and then the other, actually put both tools on a job and working at the same time. The results might surprise you. I know the tools I prefer can do it with their simo unit, but I don't think this forum is the place to start a "mine is better than yours" argument...

    ------------------
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

  7. #7
    Todd Trimble
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Arrow

    Billy (et al),
    The argument I'm going to face when I suggest a generator/power unit combo (and now that I think about it, with an electric driven pump, too) is that if that one unit (or the generator) quits, I can't do much of anything. (Except break out the "expert tools")

    With our current set-up, if the generator dies, we're just out lights and the sawzall, we still have the hydraulic tools to cut with. If the power unit chokes, we've got the electric tools and lights left. If we link these two systems together, and the generator rolls over and plays dead, it's all hacksaws and air-chisels until a miracle occurs.

    Now, I know that's something of an oversimplification, but those are the arguments I'd face if I tried to spec a combination power unit or (to a lesser extent) an electric-over-hydraulic.

    Have you faced these questions? How did you counter? (I guess our current gas-drinker power unit could be a backup in case the electric unit dies, but it would take some creative stacking to have room for both of them on the truck...)

    Thanks again!

    ------------------
    Todd Trimble
    Fairland Volunteer Fire Department



  8. #8
    Kevin Romer
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Lightbulb

    From the Westerbeke gensets/hyd pumps that I have "seen", including the unit at "Truckbash" a couple of years ago, none of them had a dump valve.

    Meaning if you ever wanted to change tools in the system, tyou would have to shut off the generator... not good in the middle of the night.

    I don't see the benefit of the system, a 25kw PTO drive will power almost everything in sight, and a hyd pump isn't that big compared to the "compartment space hogging" maintenance required, generator/pump combo.

    As far as the "H" tool company we represent, we allow no compatable units to be used in the system (bad things happen with warranties).

    My $.02 worth from the north!

    KBR

  9. #9
    MetalMedic
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Red face

    "expert tools"??? Sounds like some training sessions are in order. It also sounds like you are calling the hydrailic tools something less than an "expert tool"... might want to look at training there as well.

    As for generator failure, I would be inclined to keep the gasoline powered unit on board for back-up... and don't hesistate to have mutual aid on the way while you are using the "expert tools" to effect your extrication.


    ------------------
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

  10. #10
    Todd Trimble
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Exclamation

    Well, I'll never argue that more training isn't a good idea! I used "expert tools" in quotes because I saw it once here before and thought it was clever. The ironic part is, all of our recent extrication training wound up deailing heavily with hand tools because we broke our cutters early in each of the last three training drills.
    We've since replaced the Code 3 cutters with Hurst. See, when we bought the Code 3 cutters, we didn't realize they were only models, like the Code 3 fire trucks. They *looked* just like the Hurst cutters. But that's about it...

    ------------------
    Todd Trimble
    Fairland Volunteer Fire Department




    [This message has been edited by Todd Trimble (edited January 17, 2000).]

  11. #11
    resqb
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Hey guys how about carrying a foot powered unit for those o-so-bad times when the power unit blows. Thats our third source. We carry the electric (220v), the gas unit (both have outlets to operate 2 tools at once) and the foot one. Although the foot unit is quite a workout it still works. Then there's the port-a-power, then the cip saw, air chisels, come along, hacksaw...so many toys, so little time to use them .
    By the way our rig carries a 10Kw generator, enough to power 4, 1500 Watt lights and the power unit with room to spare.

  12. #12
    MetalMedic
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Cool

    The "expert tools" is a clever phrase... kind of makes me feel good knowing that I can use them if need be! Please take no offense, none was intended. I have never been exposed to a foot pump, that might be an interesting option. Sounds like this string has really covered the bases. The only other thought I have is carrying back-up tools on another rig to call up if the #1 unit fails you. GOOD LUCK!

    ------------------
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

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