10-30-2000, 04:43 PM #1HYTHE FIRE DEPARTMENTFirehouse.com Guest
Cutting 'A' post with combi tool for dash roll part 2
If you recall my original post, our department was having problems making a clean cut with our combi tool. I promised that when we tried the tips that I had received from my post, I would post pictures. Here they are.
This first picture shows what the ‘A’ post looks like before we are going to make the cut.
This picture is of us making the cut with our combi tool.
This picture is of the cut we made prior to the dash roll.
As we do not have a ram as yet (still 8 months away), we did the roll with the combi tool. The distance from the rocker panel to the bottom of the dash was 10.5 inches. As can be seen from this picture we were able to get 19 to 20 inches.
Any tips or suggestions on how we can get a few more inches. We found that we lost several inches of potential lift because the ‘A’ post crumpled before we started to get lift. We did make the relief cut on the frame by the strut. Any hints?
[This message has been edited by HYTHE FIRE DEPARTMENT (edited October 30, 2000).]
10-30-2000, 04:59 PM #2Kevin RomerFirehouse.com Guest
It looks good on my side.... although you ask for more distance.
When I do the same task, I cut above and below the hinge plate. Close the spreader tips on the hinge and swing the tool out. This creates the opening for the tips to back in and do the lift. I also lift from the side, as you did, it has worked better thena putting the tips in towards the front of the car.
Distance could be gained by inserting a "hi lift" into the area and use it in place of a ram. Put it in after this lift is done and you MAY gain more distance.
"Performance IS Everything"
10-31-2000, 04:52 PM #3Rich BehlingFirehouse.com Guest
nice job! In an effort to gain more lift or space I too would suggest a hi-lift jack , since you say that you dont have a ram as of yet. Something else that you may try to make the lift easier is to completley cut through the "A" post. Even with the combi tool this should be able to be completed if you first remove the fender to give you acess to the entire post. Use your spreaders to pust the fender back far enough to give you room to make a cut from both sides, this will make the lift or spread easier since you wont have to tear the rest of the metal, it also takes a little less effort to spread which helps reduce the collapse of the "A" post. We just did this with our Hurst equipment with good results although we didnt use our combi tool should be able to get simmilar results.
good luck, keep safe
10-31-2000, 06:54 PM #4larescueFirehouse.com Guest
That was a good written description of the Dash Lift maneuver. Here's a pictoral of that technique.
[This message has been edited by larescue (edited October 31, 2000).]
11-07-2000, 08:30 PM #5Ron ShawFirehouse.com Guest
Nice photo of the lift using the 40-inch spreader arms, as a word of caution, I have seen steering columns tear apart with much less lift. Most of us teach to lift only as required to get your patient out. This will give you a more stable dash roll/lift.
Also, try cutting the top rail to the front quarter panel, cut a 3 inch section out of the windshield close to the dash as posible (after glass removal),make a small notch under the dash for purchase point for the top spreader tip, cut the weld flange and put the bottom tip on the rocker channel at the start of the weld flange. This is the Modifed Dash Roll, try it out I think you'll like it. The front end will not nose dive, neither will the patient. With a 32 inch spreader, Moore measured the dash going 14 inches through the windshild.
11-07-2000, 09:05 PM #6Carl AveryFirehouse.com Guest
Gawd LARESCUE's Picture is Impressive, I know Larry and he is an Excellent Rescuer, I also believe that Ron Shaw's comment was on the Money. While it is impressive to see what a tool can do, In the Real World Rescue is making a hole big enough to SAFELY EXTRICATE our patients. We need to guard against the "Tim the Tool man" Egos of more power and HUGE HOLES. Now Having said all that, Gawd Larry when I need a whole that Big I can see a good operator with a good tool (OK Hurst guys & gals, Don't be beating your chests, we know other tools can match you[at least up to 32 inches])It can be done!
Carl D. Avery
11-08-2000, 05:46 PM #7MetalMedicFirehouse.com Guest
Not to throw cold water on the party... but is that guy in LARESCUE's picture wearing any eye protection? I see his goggles are up on the face of the helmet...
Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.
12-01-2000, 06:42 PM #8Ron ShawFirehouse.com Guest
Lets make sure we are using the correct terminalogy when discribing techniques.
Dash Rolls are when the dash is push or rolled up and in a forward motion toward the front of the vehicle.
My Modified Dash technique is what appears to be used with the 40-inch Transformer by Hurst. The roof line is left intact and the only A-pillar to be cut is on the side of the roll/push.
Jacking is lifting the dash in an upward lift most likely from a cut made into the A-pillar. This too can be done in similar fash as the Modifed Dash Roll when the cuts to the front top rail and bottom of the A-pillar just above the dash are performed.
While this may seem to be very picky, for the new people try to learn things on the forum/internet they may be confused or learn improper terminology. In actual practice when their IC says to roll the dash he/she use the improper technique.
Becareful of going beyond that what is needed to actually displace the dash. From what I have seen, the steering column has already separated (split shaft).
I have never seen an entrapment that it required using more than 32 inches. Also having longer arms, what does this do for the force at the tips?? Get your manual out and see the difference between that and the 28 or 32-inch arms. Remember, there is always a
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