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  1. #1
    Lewiston2Capt
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Lightbulb You Make the call Ford Explorer Incident.

    I went through the Foord Explorer "You make the call" and have a few questions. ow would one make the decision that the engine is still running on the explorer from the perspective of the second decision point? I saw that the tail ligts on the explorer were lit and the spoiler break light was not which leads me to the conclusion that the vehicle is still in drive, however I see no indication that the car is still running. Was this assumption made because it is the most dangerous of the possibilities?
    As far as the third decision point. I see that some people said that the explorer hit another vehicle and then went through the exterior wall and into the wall of the residence. I only see on color on the bumper and uniform damage to the front of the vehicle. The bricks from the wall would have hit the front bumper first and toppled onto the hood and through the front window. The remining portion of the wall would have caused the damage to the driver door. Please if I have missed any information that would lead to the alternate answer please reply to this posting.
    Ron, your input would be useful as well.



    ------------------
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Captain
    Lewiston Fire Co. No. 2


  2. #2
    HYTHE FIRE DEPARTMENT
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Talking

    I think if I read the question correctly on part two, you were to choose which of the listed hazards would be potentially the most dangerous, and should be addressed first.

    Thus, out of all of the choices, I choose the hazard that the engine was running, and the transmission was in drive.

    As for the third part, I agree with you, it appears that the damage was a result of running through the wall, and not from any other collision. However, I would not be surprised if the vehicle hit a pedestrian, the pedestrian went through the windshield (must have been a really tall pedestrian) and scared the crap out of the driver. In a panic, the driver hit the gas instead of the brake and sent the vehicle smashing into a parked car, then through the brick wall, and finally colliding with the house.

    As the driver was most likely impaired, driving without a license, no insurance, and he had a prostitute with a bag of weed in the passanger seat of his wife's Expedition, he decides to run for it and backs up until he gets high centered on the bricks.

    It could happen.

  3. #3
    N2DFire
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Cool

    Shawn,

    Regarding the second question (the one regarding the motor still running) - You are correct that there is nothing in the picture that would indicate the vehicle is in gear or running, however the way I read the question was for the most dangerous posibility & a vehicle running & in gear was the most dangerous of the options listed.

    As for my take on the 3rd question. It asked what could have caused the dammage - not what did cause it. At that point I think it would be safe to say that they could have hit another vehicle, the brick wall, and/or the house itself.

    You have raised some good questions here, but the main thing to remember with these scenarios is that there isn't a right or wrong answer - it's a thinking exercise.

    It was meant to raise these questions and foster a discussion.

    My take on the subject - for what it's worth.

    Take Care - Stay safe
    Stephen
    FF/Paramedic

    [This message has been edited by N2DFire (edited November 02, 2000).]

  4. #4
    Lewiston2Capt
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    ND2Fire I was not saying anyone was right or wrong. I just wanted to know if there was anything I missed in making my decision. From the sounds of the replies so far I think it was more a matter of interpretation of the question than any missed information.
    Thank you to everyone for your replies.

    ------------------
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Captain
    Lewiston Fire Co. No. 2

  5. #5
    rmoore
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    A Posting From Ron Moore

    First Decision Point:

    In the story about this crash, you learned that there appears to be a crowd of civilians milling around the immediate crash scene. The most appropriate action for you to ask the Police Officer to accomplish would be to clear the immediate area of civilian spectator personnel and traffic. Cops love to do this and it is needed at this time.

    The Expedition is unstable. The brick wall is unstable. Even the homeís utilities are still energized. Best assignment for PD; get the people back and clear the intersection for incoming apparatus.

  6. #6
    rmoore
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    A Posting From Ron Moore

    Second Decision Point:

    All the choices listed for hazards can actually exist. It would be up to you and your crew to discover those hazards present and determine which need to be taken care of first.

    At this specific incident, the most serious potential was that the vehicle was found actually with the engine running and itsí transmission still in 'Drive'. The injured driver was injured and stunned by the events that she had not shut anything off.

    It is amazing how at a crash scene, with all the outside noise and commotion, you can miss the fact that the engine is still running.

    What I have learned to do is place my hand on the hood. Just like palpating a pulse on a patient, I can 'feel' that the engine is running even if I can't hear it.

    I've had several crashes within the last few weeks where the vehicle engine was just sitting there quietly idling as we arrived.

    Maybe we should all learn to palpate the 'pulse' of the crash vehicle.

  7. #7
    rmoore
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    A Posting From Ron Moore

    Regarding the Expedition's brake lights appearing to be ON, it is an optical illusion.

    I use fill-in flash for all my photography even in broad daylight. What you see that really looks like the brake lights being on is the reflection of the flash in the red lens of the taillights. Notice the brilliance of the fire officers Scotch-lite trim on his turnout coat.

    You have impressed me with your observation skills! Nothing gets by you, does it.

  8. #8
    rmoore
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    A Posting From Ron Moore

    Third Decision Point:

    Damage to the front of the Expedition could be from crashing into a pedestrian, another vehicle, the brick wall of the yard and the wall of the house. These would all be things that the OIC must check for.

    In this specific incident, the lone driver was injured from loose bricks that flew through the windshield and landed in and on her. Those loose bricks came from the brick wall.

    There actually was another vehicle involved that struck the Expedition on the passengerís side. It wound up about 200 feet down the street. Initially we didn't even see it because it was so far away from the obvious attention-getting Expedition.

    The brick wall of the house was damaged but those bricks were smashed low, down at the level of the front bumper. They didnít fly up high enough to smash the windshield.

    The bricks from the wall tore the windshield almost completely out. Portions of them wound up even in the rear seat and the back hatchback area.

    The training point here is to look beyond the obvious. If everyone thinks the damage is from the bricks, would you have been the one who searched and found the green paint on the passenger's side of the Expedition? Would you have been the one who looked beyond the crash and saw a green minivan way down the street?

    Size-up is a skill that is learned. Doing it right is a challenge at every call.


  9. #9
    rmoore
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    When the patient tells you "It hit me like a ton of bricks", sometimes you just have to believe it.

    This is the debris from the wall that crashed through the windshield and is sitting on the passenger front seat.


  10. #10
    Lewiston2Capt
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs up

    Thank you, Ron for the insight. I appreciate the story, it provides some additional info that the pictures do not relay. I think that this forum is a great idea and will improve the skills of many Firefighters and rescue professionals.

    ------------------
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Captain
    Lewiston Fire Co. No. 2

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