Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moulton, Al. USA
    Posts
    30

    Default Genisis Rescue Tools- Good or Bad?

    Our Dept. has just purchased a new set of Genesis rescue tools to be put in service soon.We had each of the major rescue tool manufacturers at our station and tested each. While all were very good, our dept. felt the Genesis tools were the best. At the bid openings the dealer that represented these tools was the lowest bid.My question is this: has anyone out there used these tools in your dept. and are they any good or not. I would appreciate any true life experiences you may have had with this brand.


  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    93

    Default

    We have had our Genesis tools for some time now and love them. They are light weight, fast, and we really love the nontoxic fluid. We haven't had any problems to speak of.

    Hope you have the same success with them that we have had! Good luck!
    Begin with the end in mind.

    Be safe out there!!

  3. #3
    Forum Member MetalMedic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    The Home of Smucker's Jelly
    Posts
    1,266

    Default

    I have worked with the Genisis tools and have had no problems with them. If you do some checking, you will notice that they resemble the Weber tools made in Europe. It is my understanding that the Genisis is made by Weber in Europe and re-labeled in the United States. That doesn't affect the tools, it is just something you might want to look into for your own information.

    Genesis has some great sales people here in Ohio. I have not had a chance to attend one, but I am told that the advanced extrication schools they put on are outstanding.

    All tools will do the job that they are designed for as long as the operator is competent and the tools are properly maintained. Practice with them and take care of them and I am sure you will be pleased with them.

    [ 09-01-2001: Message edited by: MetalMedic ]
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

  4. #4
    FIGJAM lutan1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    I come from The Land Down Under!
    Posts
    1,833

    Default

    Genesis, Wagner? Who? Never heard of either of these!

    Not saying they're good or bad, but I know our service in Australia, just like the others over here that perform auto extrication tend to stick with brand names that are known to everyone, have a trusted name and have the back up. (Those that stick out are Holmatro, Hurst, Lukas. Only recently, Amkus made its way over here, but I don't know how they're fairing on the market.)

    Maybe I'm a bit conservative, but I'd stick with what I know unless I knew the full background of the new equipment. I'd hate to find out that you can't get parts or service or training when you most need it....
    Luke

  5. #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Alexandria, Indiana, USA
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Here is a thought, how long have they been around the states where is the service comming from and who is doing itAre they high pressue or low pressue (I don't know wich they are can't say I ever heard of them ) We had all low pressure 5,500 psi for years than switch to high pressure low flow stuff. It did not take us long to switch back to low pressure high fluid flow pump and tools. We have found if they company is low low price they have left something out. Pay now or pay later.To us long term service life is the key to making the up the money. Spen a little more time before you give them the go ahead and look at some other dept's that use each tool.

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    BRADLEY WV USA
    Posts
    4

    Default

    We have been using genisis tools for over 4 years now and we love them. We had the company come in and do a demo at our department and we made the decision to switch from hurst and made the company leave the demo set. We now have three sets. we have had no problem and we use ours alot. We get good support from Howellco and have a couple of members who have been trained to service our tools.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moulton, Al. USA
    Posts
    30

    Default

    Thanks everyone for your input.The founder of Lukus tools also founded Genesis. These tools no doubt will do the job for our dept.Just wanted a little info on them from others who had used them. Thanks again all.

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio USA
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Genesis Tools are manufactured in Europe by Weber. To my knowledge they operate at 9100 psi in europe, but 10,500 psi here. I also doubt they are NFPA 1936 compliant. If they claim this, find out who did the tests. The tools operate well but I would question there durability.

  9. #9
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Alexandria, Indiana, USA
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Here is another strike against buying them, someone lied to you about the Lukas guys founding the company. Lukas did not found them and if you were listing to what is going on you would know that comming soon there will be no more Lukas USA company. Hale or who ever owns them have fired everyone there and shut down Lukas in the US.Genisis so I have heard is pieced together from other companys that they get there part's.

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    22

    Default

    WEBER-HYDRAULIK is the one's that build the tool. Weber

    The tools are sold under the name American Rescue Technology in the USA. The brand name is GENESIS SERIES. The tools Operating Pressure is: 10,500 lbs.

  11. #11
    Forum Member MetalMedic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    The Home of Smucker's Jelly
    Posts
    1,266

    Default

    Originally posted by Extrication Research:
    <STRONG>WEBER-HYDRAULIK is the one's that build the tool. Weber

    The tools are sold under the name American Rescue Technology in the USA. The brand name is GENESIS SERIES. The tools Operating Pressure is: 10,500 lbs.</STRONG>
    Weber.. that's the name I can never remember!!! I have also been told that the deal with the Genesis is that American Rescue Technology purchased literally a boat load of Weber tools and re-labeled them as Genesis. Allegedly, when they need a part to repair a tool, they take one of the original shipments apart and use that part to fix the tool. The "rumor" is that once these parts are gone, Weber will not supply any more to American Rescue Technology... Now, this is RUMOR, and I have no way to verify it... but if you are considering this tool, you might want to aske a few pointed questions since you would home to keep them in service for many years to come.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

  12. #12
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    ILLINOIS
    Posts
    3

    Default

    METALMEDIC: American Rescue Technology (ART) shares a cooperative partnership with Weber Hydraulics in Germany, just as Hurst shares a cooperative partnership with Lukas in Germany. Some of the Genesis products are produced by Weber for ART the same as some of the Hurst products are produced by Lukas for Hurst.

    LUTAN: Amkus has made its way to Australia 15 years ago. "you should get out more often".
    Futher, we service all brands of rescue tools and I have ordered parts from "those that stick out" and have taken more than four months to receive.

    JAS: No one brand of rescue tool is consistantly higher in price than others. Many things influence price (dealers,bid specs,area,the desire to get the business, etc. )The purpose of bidding is to obtain the product at the most competitive price. Low bid does not mean "buy now and pay later".
    It is easily apparent that the quality of the product exists by the value added features such as third party testing and approval, meeting standards such as NFPA,EN,DIN,the French Rescue Tool Standards of which Genesis Rescue tools meet all of the above.

    Heatseeker: 9,200 psi is a requirement of the DIN rescue tool standard in Germany. This is what requires the tools to operate at 9,200 psi. It is not that the tools are designed to operate at 9,200 psi. Lukas manufactures pumps for hurst which operate at a maximum of 5000 psi. This does not mean that those same pumps are not designed operate at 10,000 psi.
    Lukas offers those same pumps operating at the higher pressure. Further you should not doubt that the Geneis Rescue Tools meet the NFPA standard, they do, and they are advertised as such.

    JAS: IDEX who owns Hurst and Lukas has made a simple decision to market the Lukas product through Hale under a new label " Centaur"
    No Lukas employees work for Hale and therefore were not fired. Lukas is an excellent product and will continue to be supported by hale. Every rescue tool company relies on other companies to produce various parts for the tools, blades, tips, pumps, hose, etc. If this is your interpretation of "pieced together" then you should consider all rescue tools are pieced together.

    EXTRICATION RESEARCH: Weber is a parner of ART just as Lukas is a partner of Hurst. You will find that it is not uncommon for other rescue tool companies to produce certain items for other rescue tool companies. You should do more research!

    METALMEDIC: There is no truth to any part of your reply.

    In conclusion, one person simply requested if others could help him become more familiar with Genesis brand rescue tools. I think he had hoped some with direct experience would respond. Some did, however others who admittingly knew nothing about these rescue tools felt the urge to respond with misinformation. These forums are designed for an exchange of helpful accurate information,that may be of genuine help to others, this is not the place to further unfounded rumors.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Glasgow, KY.
    Posts
    61

    Default

    Genesis "claim" to a NFPA is per the European test not UL. Departments buy equipment that is tested to UL or other USA recognized testing agencies as genuinely meeting up to a tested standard, not on what Europe does.

  14. #14
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio USA
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Joe

    You seem to know the product very well.
    What is the safety factor on the Genesis Tools? Who completed the NFPA 1936 testing on the tools?

    If it was done using the DIN standard
    ( which by the way is a quality assurance standard, not a preformance standard ) what operating pressure were the tools tested?

    I think its interesting that no other European rescue tool manufacturer tests to the DIN standard.

    I truly question Genesis claim to NFPA 1936 compliance since ART is not the manufacturer. All of the information i have read in the standard is based on the manufacturer, not a private labeling company or "partner".

    One final point, I don't understand how you can possible make repairs to other tools. Can you buy original parts and are you factory trained by these manufacturers?

  15. #15
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Originally posted by JosephSimon:
    <STRONG>METALMEDIC: American Rescue Technology (ART) shares a cooperative partnership with Weber Hydraulics in Germany, just as Hurst shares a cooperative partnership with Lukas in Germany. Some of the Genesis products are produced by Weber for ART the same as some of the Hurst products are produced by Lukas for Hurst.

    LUTAN: Amkus has made its way to Australia 15 years ago. "you should get out more often".
    Futher, we service all brands of rescue tools and I have ordered parts from "those that stick out" and have taken more than four months to receive.

    JAS: No one brand of rescue tool is consistantly higher in price than others. Many things influence price (dealers,bid specs,area,the desire to get the business, etc. )The purpose of bidding is to obtain the product at the most competitive price. Low bid does not mean "buy now and pay later".
    It is easily apparent that the quality of the product exists by the value added features such as third party testing and approval, meeting standards such as NFPA,EN,DIN,the French Rescue Tool Standards of which Genesis Rescue tools meet all of the above.

    Heatseeker: 9,200 psi is a requirement of the DIN rescue tool standard in Germany. This is what requires the tools to operate at 9,200 psi. It is not that the tools are designed to operate at 9,200 psi. Lukas manufactures pumps for hurst which operate at a maximum of 5000 psi. This does not mean that those same pumps are not designed operate at 10,000 psi.
    Lukas offers those same pumps operating at the higher pressure. Further you should not doubt that the Geneis Rescue Tools meet the NFPA standard, they do, and they are advertised as such.

    JAS: IDEX who owns Hurst and Lukas has made a simple decision to market the Lukas product through Hale under a new label " Centaur"
    No Lukas employees work for Hale and therefore were not fired. Lukas is an excellent product and will continue to be supported by hale. Every rescue tool company relies on other companies to produce various parts for the tools, blades, tips, pumps, hose, etc. If this is your interpretation of "pieced together" then you should consider all rescue tools are pieced together.

    EXTRICATION RESEARCH: Weber is a parner of ART just as Lukas is a partner of Hurst. You will find that it is not uncommon for other rescue tool companies to produce certain items for other rescue tool companies. You should do more research!

    METALMEDIC: There is no truth to any part of your reply.

    In conclusion, one person simply requested if others could help him become more familiar with Genesis brand rescue tools. I think he had hoped some with direct experience would respond. Some did, however others who admittingly knew nothing about these rescue tools felt the urge to respond with misinformation. These forums are designed for an exchange of helpful accurate information,that may be of genuine help to others, this is not the place to further unfounded rumors.</STRONG>

    I do not know what you want me to research, Weber makes the tools, your company, Todd and the guys, and a few others sells them! What is to research? All I had said was the tool is built by WEBER and they run @ 10,500psi, is this not a true statement?


    EQUIPMENT MANAGEMENT COMPANY
    Phone: 815-726-0045 Fax: 815-726-0056

    Joseph Simon
    (President)
    Phone: (800)487-7567
    Fax: (815)726-0056
    e-mail: joe@emc4rescue.com

    American Rescue Technology Dealer List...

    Equipment Management Company
    1323 N. Raynor Ave.
    Joliet, IL 60435
    800-487-7567
    815-726-0056 (Fax)





    [ 09-09-2001: Message edited by: Extrication Research ]

  16. #16
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    ILLINOIS
    Posts
    3

    Default

    FIREMAN387 Genesis Rescue Tools are tested to the NFPA 1936 Standard for Hydraulic Rescue Tools. This is unrelated to the DIN Standard for Rescue Tools. The DIN Standard for Rscue Tools has been in place for more than 20 years. In Fact, prior to UL ever testing a rescue tool they looked to the DIN standard to better understand how to test rescue tools. UL is not a standard, they are one of many testing organizations the manufacturer might use to test its products to a known standard.

    HEATSEEKER: The DIN Standard requires tools to be tested to meet specific force and performance requirements. Tools are classified according to performance capability similar to the NFPA standard. The DIN Standard is not a Quality Assurance Standard in the way that ISO 9001 is designed for. However, you could view any of these standards as providing a certain degree of Safety and Quality Assurance.

    You might be interested to know that most european manufactuters meet the DIN requirement for Rescue Tools. In fact Hurst and Amkus meet the DIN as well.

    To answer your last question yes, we are factory trained and yes, I have purchased replacement parts directly from the manufacturer.

    My advice to user's who use these forums as a source to obtain additional information on products or services, is to use caution. Much of the information posted on these forums are from dealers,sales people and manufacturer's reps who like to argue these issues forever. This makes it very difficult for the end user to sift through these postings and find accurate helpful information. Unfortunately many of these people do not identify themselves as dealers and sales people. I nomally do not get envolved in these discussions. I particapated here because I do have experience with Genesis Rescue Tools,Weber Hydraulics,NFPA Testing,DIN Standards,Amkus Rescue Tools,etc. I wanted to respond to the misinformation posted. Even when it is a known fact it amazes me some will still want to doubt it. Regarding the user who originally requested information, he stated he already took delivery of his Genesis Rescue Tools, a comment many of you didn't get! The guy was looking for user's who owned this equipment to share their experience. Instead some with no experience respond with misinformation. This will be my final posting.

  17. #17
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    ILLINOIS
    Posts
    3

    Default

    FIREMAN387 Genesis Rescue Tools are tested to the NFPA 1936 Standard for Hydraulic Rescue Tools. This is unrelated to the DIN Standard for Rescue Tools. The DIN Standard for Rscue Tools has been in place for more than 20 years. In Fact, prior to UL ever testing a rescue tool they looked to the DIN standard to better understand how to test rescue tools. UL is not a standard, they are one of many testing organizations the manufacturer might use to test its products to a known standard.

    HEATSEEKER: The DIN Standard requires tools to be tested to meet specific force and performance requirements. Tools are classified according to performance capability similar to the NFPA standard. The DIN Standard is not a Quality Assurance Standard in the way that ISO 9001 is designed for. However, you could view any of these standards as providing a certain degree of Safety and Quality Assurance.

    You might be interested to know that most european manufactuters meet the DIN requirement for Rescue Tools. In fact Hurst and Amkus meet the DIN as well.

    To answer your last question yes, we are factory trained and yes, I have purchased replacement parts directly from the manufacturer.

    My advice to user's who use these forums as a source to obtain additional information on products or services, is to use caution. Much of the information posted on these forums are from dealers,sales people and manufacturer's reps who like to argue these issues forever. This makes it very difficult for the end user to sift through these postings and find accurate helpful information. Unfortunately many of these people do not identify themselves as dealers and sales people. I nomally do not get envolved in these discussions. I particapated here because I do have experience with Genesis Rescue Tools,Weber Hydraulics,NFPA Testing,DIN Standards,Amkus Rescue Tools,etc. I wanted to respond to the misinformation posted. Even when it is a known fact it amazes me some will still want to doubt it. Regarding the user who originally requested information, he stated he already took delivery of his Genesis Rescue Tools, a comment many of you didn't get! The guy was looking for user's who owned this equipment to share their experience. Instead some with no experience respond with misinformation. This will be my final posting.

  18. #18
    Forum Member MetalMedic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    The Home of Smucker's Jelly
    Posts
    1,266

    Default

    Originally posted by JosephSimon:
    <STRONG>METALMEDIC: American Rescue Technology (ART) shares a cooperative partnership with Weber Hydraulics in Germany, just as Hurst shares a cooperative partnership with Lukas in Germany. Some of the Genesis products are produced by Weber for ART the same as some of the Hurst products are produced by Lukas for Hurst.

    METALMEDIC: There is no truth to any part of your reply.

    In conclusion, one person simply requested if others could help him become more familiar with Genesis brand rescue tools. I think he had hoped some with direct experience would respond. Some did, however others who admittingly knew nothing about these rescue tools felt the urge to respond with misinformation. These forums are designed for an exchange of helpful accurate information,that may be of genuine help to others, this is not the place to further unfounded rumors.</STRONG>
    Take a "Chill Pill" man! First you confirm part of what I have posted, and then you say there is no truth in any of my replies. So is the Genesis related to Weber or not? You can't have your cake and eat it to.

    You are correct, these forums are for the exchange of helpful accurate information. It is through these discussions that we get down to the truth from the rumor (which I clearly pointed out in my comments).

    And in my mailbox today I had this waiting for me:
    ------------------------------------------
    Rich: If you would give me a call I will be in the office Monday. Lets get the facts right! Todd Howell 800/228-7612
    -------------------------------------------

    For pete's sake Todd... if you are reading these messages, post a reply on here and clear this all up for all of us since you obviously would be much closer to the truth than anyone else is here... I am not about to get into the middle of a urination competition , so I am not going to respond any further to this string.

    Beside, my tools are better than the next guys tools, my Dad can beat up your Dad, and all volunteers should be issued a full package of lightbars and sirens through a federal grant that also prohibits firearms!
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

  19. #19
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    I'll go for the package,three please and could I get a side order of Shotguns?Thank U. T.C

  20. #20
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Wheaton IL
    Posts
    1,765

    Default

    All of the mud slinging aside I had the oportunity to use Genesis at a extrication class a couple years ago. I found the tools preformed adequatly. During our 40 hour class we had two problems with the tools, one of the power unit stopped working ( more of a motor problem than a tool prob) and we destroyed the mini cutters they gave us to try. The small cutter S30 from the weber website is suposed to cut "control pedals" brake pedal. We tried this on a bus, The genesis guy said it would cut it, the blade shattered with explosive force. No one was injured in the tool failure, but it made up my mind that that specific tool was junk.
    All of the full size stuff worked OK and I did like the ergonomics, although I have my doubts on how long the adjustable handle will last. Overall the tools were OK, but I wouldn't trade my HURST or AMKUS stuff for it.

    [ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: ADSN/WFLD ]

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts