1. #1
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    Default New Hurst O cutter

    I'm going to try to avoid editorial comments here, but wanted everyone to know about this...

    About a year ago we purchased one of the new hurst O cutters (forgive me for not knowing the model numbers). The latest and greatest. During our demo with the sales rep he showed us how they could cut nader bolts, hinges, and brake pedals. Really cool, we purchsed one (along with some other stuff to update our equipment).

    Have done considerable trng with the tools, and they were great.

    Last week we had a PI w/ entrapment, and fire. Unfortunately the trapped guy in the burned car perished and the decision was made not to extricate right away. Finally extricated a little while later (waited for the coroner), and they found a burned leg wrapped around the brake pedal. So, we got the trusty O cutters, and began to cut the pedal. The blade broke.

    Lots of reasons why it might have, that's not the issue really...

    When they came to repair the cutters, they told us they were not designed to cut brake pedals, hinges, or nader bolts.

    Gee ... thanks for the info...

    BTW... the repair guy was @ our demos, and didn't speak up then....

    So... be careful with your tools. I've never seen an owners manual for our stuff, but now I'm gonna go look for it.

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    We bought the same Hurst Cutters, I believe they're called the extractor. In our demo, we cut hinges, brake pedals, everything. The rep told us that they could cut all of these things, but that extreme caution should be used, get it as far back as possible into the notch, etc.
    Basically, he told us that it's not made for it, but you can cut it(covering his ***). Since then, we've had no problem. As long as we've kept the pedal or hinge back towards the notch, and made sure the blades stayed perpendicular to whatever was being cut, we haven't had a problem. If the blade starts turning or slips so that the blades start separating and you don't stop immediately, you're in trouble. That's our experience.

    Stay Safe

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    Default

    Funny how you say that....We purchased probably the same cutter (ML-50..might have an X attached to the model number I think). Our cutter blades have broken 3 TIMES. Im about ready to trash the HURST and buy Holmatro. Our faliures were cutting 1) Door hinge, 2) hollow auger shaft, 3) Passenger car seat hinge. Same deal here, the dealer sold it like it was Gods gift to the fire service, what a crock of ****. I know you have to be careful cutting reinforced things etc, but after almost being killed/maimed as an observer when one blade failed I am no longer a believer. Im dissapointed with Hurst and lately our dealer also.

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    FFGuy. You have to be real careful when cutting any hard metal. If the sales guy did it in the demo he was wrong for doing that from the start. Some guys will do anything to sell a tool to you. Call 800-394-5118 and they can help you with all of your needs for rescue tools. We switched to them several years ago and have had no problems since than. We also have had lot's of problems with our Hurst stuff in the past. With everything else going on with Hurst it's only going to get worse before it get any better.

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    MG:

    Think you got problems now buy Holmatro and your problems now will seem very little. They have to be one of the most money eating system out there today. Read the books real close before you make a switch. Look at everyone and study the numbers and pressure's . Anyone that would ever stick thier body or face around a 10,000 psi system loves to live on the edge.

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    Default

    You have illustrated one of the big problems I see in the world of selling hydraulic rescue tools. As I have said many times, all tools will do what they are designed to do when they are operated by competent people who understand the ability of the tool they are using. Therefore, any sales rep can demonstrate that their tools will removed a door, cut a post or roll a dash.

    But then someone has to ask to see if the tool will do something you don't normally do on an extrication just out of the curioisity to know it that tool can do the job. Such an example is cutting a nader pin or a steering column. Now the tool rep finds himself(herself) in a "catch-22" situation. If they cut the nader pin, they run the risk of damaging their tool and also create a safety risk from the potential flying debris. But, if they don't cut the nader pin, and some other, less reputable, sale rep cuts the pin with his tool, then that sales rep will preach about how his tool is better because it could cut the nader pin and the competition could not.

    So, now the average firefighter, who may not even realize how dangerous it is to cut case hardended steel with a hydraulic cutter, will assume that the tool that couldn't do it, is a substandard tool. So, this has forced all of the sales reps to go ahead and cut these parts when asked to do so, or to "raise the bar" on the competiton. The reality is, that about any tool will cut a nader pin, but there is always a risk that goes along with it.

    I am not innocent in this regard. There was one extrication where I made the call to cut a steering column to free a victim who was pinned between his seat and steering wheel. He had gone into arrest and the efforts to remove the seat were thwarted by lack of access to cutting it apart. So, we cut the column and added a notch to out cutting surface in the process that shouldn't be there.

    The patiend died of course, and looking back, I think I made a bad choice. But at the time and in the "heat of battle" you do what you feel is best for your patient. The point is, even if a rep tells you a tool will perform a certain task, take a step back and evaluate of that is something you really want to do with that tool. If it is not, forget that part of the demo and look at how the tool performed on the functions that you really want it to do.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

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    We've had Holmatro for over 10 yrs along with two other towns around us and I can honestly say the only problem we've ever had was one of the connections loosened up on a job and cut a O ring.Absolutely no problems in hard use.I've run almost every brand of tool there is and I don't believe there is much junk out there anymore.As far a 10,00 psi units go as vehicles are made out of stronger materials most systems will rise in pressures to deliver the necessary power to do the job.T.C.

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    Default

    This message is for JAS... your email is blocked.

    "With everything else going on with Hurst it's only going to get worse before it get any better." What else is going with Hurst that will cause things to get worse before they get better?? Just curious.

    KBR

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    JAS

    Why the problems w/ Hurst?

    Why the comment on 10,000 PSI?

    Have you had problems?

    Stay Safe

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    JAS,

    What's the info behind your Hurst comments?

    We've used Hurst for 30 years without any major Mfg related problems. My dept and myelf are always looking at the latest Hurst products, what they offer and how they can increase our effectivness.

    We have not seen/ heard ANYTHING that would cause us concern, maybe you can enlighten us on your comments and the basis of those comments, just in case there's something we need to be worried about.
    These views/ opinions are my own and not those of my employer/ department.

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    I always was taught you couldn't cut hardened steel with a scissors type cutter. We use a hurst brake pedal cutter for that, works well, more of a guillotine cutter which basically overcomes the tensile strength of the steel rather than gradually cutting through. Couple of comments

    I like demos where they take a big cutter like the Xtractor and cut a brake pedal.. WHY? If you had to cut the pedal, wouldn't the PATIENT block access? On every pedal cut I have done for real I had to reach the small pedal cutter in with one hand. Same with a steering wheel.. its impressive, but why imbed it in the patients chest when it breaks?

    Hinges are a matter of the car manufacturer.. cast and stamped steel have been easy to cut, dinged the cutters on a Mercedes S=500 a few weeks ago, no cheap metal there, wouldn't break or cut.

    About the hollow auger shaft.. been there, broke some holmatro cutters.. take a look at what happens to the pipe when you try to cut it.. it actually crumples and gains strength. Id go with a saw, or a pipe cutter.

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    Has anyone heard of POWERHAWK,jaws just wonder if they were any good. The Dept I'm with is looking to purchase a set of jaws and that was a name that came up.

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    firebea30 why dont you check out "LUKAS" or the "New" tool called "Centauer"

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    We have been a hurst user for the past 23years and now are in the process of changing our hydraulics to TNT Rescue Systems Hydraulics. We did an in-service evaluation using TNT, Amkus, Holmatro and Hurst and over all TNT out performed them all. Their C-25 cutter was so impressive that we are changing to TNT.

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    To: Res7cue,

    Is a long story I will try to keep it easy. Idex/Hale owns Hurst and Lukas..... Idex Shut down Lukas USA and put it under Hurst. Hurst introdused the " Centauer" as there answer to the High pressure tool. (9600psi) The Centauer is really Lukas with the Hurst labels on it.Now here is the problem. Hurst is a 5000 psi system ( the safest sytem type of system to use.) Now they have a 9600 psi system that has there name on it. After 20 plus years of saying that 5000 psi is the only way to go they now have a high pressure system as well. They have forced all of the dealers to buy a set of each.(I'm sure that this will drive the cost of rescue tools higher than ever)Rumor has it Hale & Hurst of went there own ways as of the first of the year. Not to even talk about the firing of the CEO and V.P. of Hurst.

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    Firebear30>>>>>>

    PowerHawk has it's place for first response or in the trunk of a police car. For the money and the force you would be better off with Phoenix Rescue Tool or a least a true power tool. Battery operation is not a good idea to try for what we get into out on the street

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    In this part of the world, we use phoenix hydraulics(we have a combi tool)... in our city I mean. and it really work great for us, a little bit on the heavy side but works well!
    Thanks everyone for all the info regarding the pros and cons of both Hurst and Holmatro power tools.

    *** hope to join all of you in the big one***

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    I am impressed that most of you are doing your research and not just buying the "latest greatest". A lot of great points. But in all honesty, can you say one is better than the other. I grew up on Amkus. Loved them (now we use Hurst). They do the job. We held a "tool duel". TNT spreaders liteally broke the casting. Hurst began leaking around the cylinder. What ever you buy, things are going to happen, mainly because most of us push them to the limits and beyond. Before you make a change or new purchase. Look at the warrantly and most important, how fast can we get our tool repaired and back in service. Look at the toxicity of the hyd oil. When reaching pressures of 9600, is 5000 really any safer? I know you have all been told to keep your blades perpendicular when cutting. Can't always do this. Like the auger. Due to the flighting, you can't make a perpendicular cut. My suggestion is buy the largest cutters and the largest spreaders with the longest spread. Remember, you are working inside that "golden hour". Buy something that will DO the job quickly and can be repaired quickly. And don't believe everything the $ale$man says.

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    Lightbulb

    My company uses Hurst. As far as cutting nader pins, I wouldn't try it. As far as cutting pedals,<br />we have a Hurst pedal cutter, works fairly well on the thin metal pedals but not at all that I found on the case hardened thick steel pedals. Like someone else was saying there is a room issue<br />where w/a pt in the car your more than likely not going to be able to get an O cutter in the car anyway. When the need arises to remove or move a pedal I've found that using a come along works really well to pull it out of the way.

    After reading alot of these forums and the comments from this forum, they all basically turn into a Hurst vs. Holmatro battle. The last time there was actually a forum titled Hurst vs. Holmatro it went on for days and was up to like 5 or 6 pages. Alot of interesting things. I had one line that bascically summed it up....It's not how well the tool works its how well the person on the other end works the tool.

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