1. #1
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    Question Reciprocating Saws

    Hello!

    Reciprocating Saws are not very common in germany today. It would be nice if you could name some advantages and disadvantages of cip saws and where you could use a saw better than a hydraulic cutter at a mva!
    Jorg Heck
    Airbag&Co, Germany/Austria
    http://airbag.feuerwehr.org

  2. #2
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    Cool

    I'd argue that a good hydraulic rescue tool system can outperform a 'cip saw any day. But there are others who would argue the opposite.

    Why I don't like them:<br />- Blade breakage (common)<br />- Noise<br />- Vibration<br />- Heat and sparks

    What I like on some saws:<br />- keyless blade changes<br />- adjustable foot to follow angle of material being cut.<br />- cordless saws, though we don't have one so I don't know about performance issues. From what I hear though, they're great.<br />- cost (cheap compared to hydraulic tools)

    <br />They're definetly a part of needed equipment for a rescue squad, and they're certainly a valid option for cutting up a car. Blade breakage can be reduced by training with them (i.e. not holding the saw 5" from the object being cut). I'm just a fan of hydraulic tools for cutting in MVA's. But I realize that there are teams that solely use recpricating saws - one per member - and they can cut up a car quite fast.
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  3. #3
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    Reciprocating saws have their place on any rescue truck. One of these saws can cut an A, B, C post as fast as a hydraulic cutter. If you have only one hydraulic tool, then you can only cut one post at a time. Someone else can be cutting other posts with the saw. The saw can also be used on tight areas where the hydraulic equipment cannot. Saws can also be used to cut sheet metal, seat backs, etc.

    Reciprocating saws are also very useful at industrial accidents, Farm incidents, etc.

    Choose the right blade and train with the saw. You will find that it works great and blade breakage will be at a minimum. If you use a good quality blade properly, the it will last a long time. Broken blades are the result of cheap quality or improper use, both of which can be remedied.
    Dan Martelle

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    Cool Recip saw uses

    Joerg,
    One of the greatest benefits we have experienced in the use of our recip-saw during extrication is that when we are performing our "cutting" of the posts/pillars with the hydraulic cutters we simultaneously cut the opposite posts/pillars with the Recip-Saw. We also use it in performing our relief cuts and of course the windshield. We have incorporated it into an extrication "evolution". Thereby speeding up the process.
    Preparation is paramount!
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  5. #5
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    Having a cordless reciprocating saw will make your job a whole lot easier. When cutting the C post on some cars it seems to be difficult to do with the back seat there and the size of the post. My department has a 24volt DeWalt reciprocationg saw and it has out proformed our hydraulic with having to make a single cut rather then multiple cuts with the hydraulic. The one thing you have to be careful about is having the batteries changed and charged on a regular basis. Good luck and my vote goes for having a reciprocating saw in all MVA's.

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    One of the biggest advantages is certainly the cost. You can outfit a rescue truck with multiple recip saws, spare blades, extra batteries (for cordless models) for relatively little money compared to a HRT. The uses for a recip saw at an extrication, especially a cordless model, are limitless. We use them primarily to cut posts and the windshield itself, but have used it to cut pedals, stick shifts, door pins and even door hinges.

    The best part about having the cordless model that I have found is the speed of deployment. Store the saw with a blade ready to go, pop a fully charged battery in and you're ready to cut. I've also found them extremely useful on newer vehicles and the variety of plactics that are now used on the outside. With the cordless models it is especially important to have spare batteries and multiple charges to ensure longer operations.

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    Question

    Is it possible to use a power cable when the battery is empty? Here in Germany I found different saws, DeWalt, Milwaukee (dont know how to spell) and tiger (?). Is a power cable a option on this brands?
    Jorg Heck
    Airbag&Co, Germany/Austria
    http://airbag.feuerwehr.org

  8. #8
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    Originally posted by Joerg Heck
    Is it possible to use a power cable when the battery is empty? Here in Germany I found different saws, DeWalt, Milwaukee (dont know how to spell) and tiger (?). Is a power cable a option on this brands?
    Jeorg, to answer your question, YES the DeWalt 24 volt cordless is the way to go if you want a cord back up. check out this web-site: http://www.dewalt.com/us/events/fire_rescue/
    Rescue is the Art & Science of matching your tools, talents and tricks to needs of our customers!
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  9. #9
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    Joerg,
    I too recommend the 24volt DeWalt (yes you can change over to the AC adapted). But,have at least two FRESH batteries all the time. I won't recommend getting JUST the AC powered saws because if you end up over an embankment or just out of reach of your cord length then you may be in a bit of trouble.
    The DeWalt saw has a lever action keyless blade clamp, electric brake for greater control, 3-Position adjustable shoe and two-speed controls for metal and wood cutting. I recommend using the 6,8" long, variable 10-14 tpi,(tpi = teeth per inch)note: I prefer Lenox (Demolition/extrication)blades over the DeWalt ones.
    Joerg, check the 5-part training series done on saws in 1999. http://www.firehouse.com/extrication...ovember99.html

    JW
    "Making Sense with Common Sense"
    Motor Vehicle Rescue Consultants
    ( MVRC@comcast.net) Jordan Sr.

  10. #10
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    We use a "cable-only" Milwaukee Sawzall on most of our engines. It's more reliable than the battery operated ones and in 99% of the MVA's our 100 foot cord reel is long enough. For the remaining 1% we will set up a portable generator. Concerning speed, I'd say it's comparable to hydraulic tools in most cases, sometimes faster. The recip is generally more versatile, but the hydraulics is probably stronger on tough materials. Hope this helps, schoenen Tag noch,

    Mike

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    Now here is a post that will cause some discussion.
    I like the 18v DeWalt over the 24V. It is a lighter
    tool and the less experienced operators seem to have
    an easier time with it. Also, according to the former
    Power-Hawk guy, Bobby Williams, the optimum speed of
    the 'cip saw blade for most of the metal we cut
    should be 1600-1800spm. I believe this works very well.
    I also know that telling a rescuer to work the throttle
    at half speed wont work either. It is true that currently
    the 24v DeWalt has the AC adapter. However, the DeWalt
    guy in our area (and we are about 20 miles from the
    factory in Hampstead MD), they are very close to
    introducing the AC power cord for the 18V as well.
    Just another opinion.
    Skip Rupert
    Shrewsbury, PA
    "Keeper of the Rescue Zone"
    rsqzone@hotmail.com

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by skip rupert61 [edited]
    Also, according to the former
    Power-Hawk guy, Bobby Williams, the optimum speed of
    the 'cip saw blade for most of the metal we cut
    should be 1600-1800spm. I believe this works very well.
    I also know that telling a rescuer to work the throttle
    at half speed wont work either.
    Skip, while I like the DeWalt, in reference to your above Post the Milwaukee People tell me the same thing, It has a lot to do with the performance of the Blade (anybody's blade) The Milwaukee Super Saw-z-all has a neat feature where you can set the Max speed of the blade. So our rescue team members can mash the trigger and keep the saw opperating at the correct speed for maximum cutting efficency
    Rescue is the Art & Science of matching your tools, talents and tricks to needs of our customers!
    Carl D. Avery

  13. #13
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    And let's not forget one of the most important parts of any 'cip saw,THE BLADE!Without a rugged high Quality blade,it dosen't matter if the saw does 10 strokes a minute or 10,000.The folks who are having problems with blades breaking need to train more and use a high quality demo blade.Yes they will break but not nearly as often as the blue light special.Our moderator has some very good information on blades,and having used all listed,I agree with.T.C.

  14. #14
    MEDIC O372
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    Milwaukee Sawzall with a plug is the way to go. I do like the idea of the cordless but we have always had bad luck with them. The cordless seem to loose power to quickly for me. A Sawzall plugged into our 200 FT reel is great. We had a car upside down in a trench and we cut the car almost in half and folded it back on itself and got to the passenger compartment in no time by using the Sawzall. Its a great tool. You MUST have good blades and you MUST have a handfull to keep going. On standard cut jobs (extrications) we use the sawzall in combination with the Hurst O cutter to remove the roof. The Sawzall will cut right through the windshield like butter...the fastest way I've ever seen to cut a windshield.

    If you don't like using it as a primary tool...it's a great back-up incase your other tools don't work.

    Take care and be safe but most af all have fun,
    Medic 0372

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