Thread: R.I.T EQUIPMENT
04-15-1999, 04:07 PM #1mtcurtnerFirehouse.com Guest
WE ARE LOOKING TO START A R.I.T
I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT OTHER DEPTS. ARE USING. WE ARE PAID/VOL DEPT. THIS TEAM WILL RESPOND ALL OVER THE COUNTY
04-15-1999, 09:51 PM #2THUMPERFirehouse.com Guest
To properly equip a RIT is a task that will take research and of course money. My department took a training course called Rapid Intervention Crew Excersises. It is a course developed by James Crawford of the Pittsburgh Bureau of Fire. We were featured in the Working Fire Video Series on Rapid Intervention Teams. That was in June of 1998. We are still looking for all the equipment we would need to be effective. I can give you a list. E-mail me and I'll send it to you. Hopefully it will get you started. Good luck.
04-16-1999, 10:13 PM #3mtcurtnerFirehouse.com Guest
i would appreciate any help in putting this
project together. i am trying to get our
city council to back this project.
e-mail me at email@example.com
04-28-1999, 09:25 AM #4fyrescueFirehouse.com Guest
Our area is made up of either village or town departments, not a county wide system. Because of this we rely on each other for second alarms or RIT. We have an "Eastern Section" Association made up of 8 departments which work together on a regular basis. We are right in the middle of developing a common SOP for RIT so everyone is "on the same page" when you are called to perform RIT.
Due to the varied types of rescues which you could face we are leaning towards the RIT company responding with their heavy rescue. It carries everything you might need for tools and equipment. Hand tools, power tools, hydraulic rescue tools, lighting, ventilation, shoring/cribbing, cascade, etc., etc.
Our draft SOP calls for a minimum 4 man response with the heavy rescue. A responding chief becomes our laison with the host command post. We are using UHF portable radios on a "Clean" freq. only for the RIT. Should command need RIT to initiate a rescue the laison instantly communicates this to the RIT on their own freq. When one of our chiefs are unavailable one of the county co-ordinators takes over as laison.
On arrival the RIT stages as close to the scene as possible. Each of the 4 persons will already be assigned duties. They will already have donned their SCBA while enroute and when they arrive will pack their "Short List" of tools/equipment to bring to the staging area, usually adjacent to the main entrance. We are loading all the equipment into a stokes and doing a 4 corner carry up to the staging area. This seems to work well.
"Short List" equipment:
set of irons
2 UHF portable radios
Chainsaw with carbide chain
Circular saw with metal cutting blade
search rope kit
thermal imaging camera
tarp to place equipment in staging.
A spare SCBA bottle for each pack.
Everything else is on the "Long List" in the heavy rescue.
The RIT stages near the entrance, organizes their equipment, and standsby. This doesn't mean they just stand there. It means they do not commit to regular firefighting duties, they begin their size-up, where is the fire, where are the f/f's, construction type, entrances/exits/windows/doors, where am I going to make a door when fire is pushing out the front. (regular sizeup issues). They may decide to position ladders that are not in use already if they determine they may be needed,etc. They also will size-up the apparatus that is close to the scene for equipment available. And will already have planned with EMS who, what, where and how things will occur when we bring the victims out.
As stated above each man will be preassigned a duty, one will lead with the camera, one will handle the irons, one the search rope, one the saw (if needed),etc. By doing this you cut out the minute or so of confusion which would occur if you don't.
Don't get me wrong, we are just developing these SOP's. Our goal is to settle on a common set of SOP's in our section so when we call for a RIT from our neighbors they understand what they are expected to do when they get here.
Currently we have added an additional drill each month just for RIT training. Our overall goal is to have all SCBA quailified f/f's onboard with RIT procedures in the next 6 months.
[This message has been edited by fyrescue (edited April 28, 1999).]
04-28-1999, 09:47 AM #5e33Firehouse.com Guest
this is not aimed at anyone specifically, but based on what ive seen over the last year or so. WHY are we bringing gas powered tools into a building under the premise that we have to make a rescue in a hostile fire environment?? Gas engines wont run. Get good with your hand tools, carry an extra SCBA for the downed FF and bring a hoseline into your position...AWARE= Air, Water, A Radio, Extrication....simple stuff saves time and lives...learn how to use a handcuff knot (also known as a "love" knot) as well.. If you have to effect a rescue in a fire environment, chances are that you arent using a stokes, you're dragging your brother out by his wrists or ankles.
Good luck and stay safe.
[This message has been edited by e33 (edited April 28, 1999).]
04-28-1999, 12:15 PM #6Mike KFirehouse.com Guest
Hey Thumper, what is your email address? Please send me your list of R.I.T. tools.
I also attended the class that Jim Craford developed. It was the most demanding class that I have ever taken, both physically and mentally. That class really woke up our company!! We purchased a trailer that we keep our R.I.T tools in and is pulled by our 4-door squad (pick up truck). I have asked my R.I.T. leader to provide me with a list of tools that we have. I'll get you a copy as soon as I get it. We recently had our first R.I.T. Rescue, see R.I.T. rescue forum.
It wasn't much, but it will be very usefull for our trainings & experience.
04-28-1999, 04:51 PM #7ff161Firehouse.com Guest
Hi everyone, I have to agree with e33 on this one. Remember that RIT means RAPID intervention team. Trying to haul a gas powered tool into where the victim is is going to be very slow and difficult. Then due to darkness and smoke the equiptment will probably be inoperable.
Power equiptment should probably be only batt. operated. A cord dragging behind might not be real feasible either. Remember that the guy or girl in there is one of your own that probably used a lot of their air to get to where they are. You need to move fast. keep your tools as light as you can. If you need more then call for them. Think about keeping a strap in you pocket, tied in a loop. Wrapped under the armpits, They can make a great handle for pulling someone out, also the handcuff knot is a great idea, but might be a little more difficult to tie in a smokey dark environment. Remember to keep it simple.
04-28-1999, 06:59 PM #8Halligan84Firehouse.com Guest
Just a couple of points on some of the posts. Equipping yourself for firefighter rescue isn't tremendously different from civilian rescue. Basic tools based on the occupancy and increase them according to hazards found. Most well equipped truck and rescue companies should be easily able to operate as a F.A.S.T. without additional equipment. Don't let anyone tell you that this function requires lots of money, if you have been working interior fires, I'd say you could find enough equipment and it sure won't require a trailer. It's true that gas powered tools won't work INSIDE of buildings, but we need them to gain entry. Steel doors and window coverings and barred openings are examples, chain saws are also useful for enlarging window openings, again, this is a technique useful for civilians as well. The stokes serves 2 purposes, we use it to carry our equipment to the scene and if you do have a large enough area to use it, its alot easier than dragging. One of the more interesting firefighter rescues here involved a firefighter disoriented and becoming disabled inside of a large mall. Physically dragging him through the mall was exhausting, the members involved commented that a stokes would have made alot of difference. We utilize a spare scba carried inside of a large rope bag for our "emergency pack" it eliminates tangling and snagging and we can easily attach a handle to the existing scba waist strap.
04-29-1999, 12:06 AM #9e33Firehouse.com Guest
I have a few points to clarify, "my bad".
I do believe that power tools are necessary, as Halligan states. We need to make sure that there is a place to bring our injured brother or sister out of as well. Batt tools are probably ok too.
Consider a 20 ton bottle jack instead of other lifting options too, works in any environment and is simple to work, even in darkness.
I am an advocate of using a patient transport device if time and distance dictates it. Less friction and more comfort for all involved, and gives minimal immobilization in the given conditions
I critically stress the importance of the handcuff knot, until you have practiced and understood its value, you can't appreciate it. I can tie it blindfolded behind my back...as anyone should be able to do. I can bring an injured person through a hole in their smallest profile by having their hands up over their head, and if i want to, i can bring them up feet first., or if space allows, in a basket fashion.
05-02-1999, 08:07 PM #10fyrescueFirehouse.com Guest
I guess some explaination is in order, yes you are correct that gas powered tools are pratically useless, no less very dangerous to use around victims inside a smoke filled environment. What they are used for in our system is to make doors out of windows or opening commercial doors. There have been numerous stories of firefighters as well as rescuers hindered accessing and performing a rescue through a window or wall. With the saw we can turn a small window into door, a solid wall is now a door. The saws are for going from the outside to the inside. Hope this makes it clear.
05-10-1999, 08:05 PM #11SMOKEYSAMFirehouse.com Guest
I must be dazed and confused. I've been on the job 30 years. And the Dept I run with has always been prepared to rescue our own. No one had to tell use you need a RIT, FAST or whatevery initials someone comes up with. When you pull up on a job with entrapment, what do you do? Do we assemble a pile of equipment that we will not need and waste time and energy or do we know our jobs and get it done. What's changed, fellows are we getting hung up in the hype that someone is trying to sell us. We're being lead around by our noses. Run a orginized fire ground, command and control. Know the conditions and make smart safe decisions. Yes, there are going to be emergencies envolving our own people. Let's work smart to get them out, develope good practial procedures. Let's not waste time, engergy and money on ideas and concepts that if you really step back and look at are at time stupid. I belive that we should have a company designated for rescue purposes when practicial. Not too many Depts have the luxury of manpower to do so. When we do call mutual aid it is for manpower. I am not being negative, just practicial. Sometimes we look for solutions when we do not even know what the problem is.
05-10-1999, 08:17 PM #12e33Firehouse.com Guest
Amen brother, such is the way of the fire service. We love to fall for every gimmick that comes down the road....its good to know that your dept protects its own, some never thought of it until someone told them they have to.
[This message has been edited by e33 (edited May 10, 1999).]
05-17-1999, 01:24 AM #13IckymowFirehouse.com Guest
First off I wholehartedly agree with smokeysam. What has changed? We have always known what to do and how to run a fire scean. It is nice to go the step beyond and have a dedicated team ready to help if needed. To fyrescue I would like to know if you are trying to develop your sop for Onondaga or for Maddison. Onondaga has a policy in place for the rit and you should check it out. It has a list of recomended items and manpower requirements. Been out for about a year. If you know of any one in Bridgeport ask them to see the letter Cicero sent them asking them to be there RIT team and what Cicero wanted them to bring. The idea of a rescue is ok but some departments would rather send an engine instead of committing a special truck like a heavy rescue to a scean to stand by and just sit there. If you have a signal 80 your rescue is now tied up due to the fact that once committed to a scean as RIT your there till it's done. Most departments have a couple engines but only one rescue, so we ask for an engine. If you want a copy of Onondaga's RIT policy just call Mike Waters office. He can get you a copy.
To e33 I must say you are quite obcessed with your lovers knot. By the way that knot has been around ages. Wristlets or even a nice piece of webbing will do the same thing if you know how to use it. The problem with your love knot is you have to pull on both ends of thr rope but with the wristletts you can just pull in the middle or lift in the middle with a 4:1 haul system. The only thing is who has time to build a haul system and I would like to know how you intend to lift a ff from floor to floor by your self, or even with some one to help you. Lifting dead weight takes more that 2 ff's, not to mention the damage you do to the ff your trying to get out by using that type of knot. Granted if that is the only way to get him out a dislocated shoulder is better than being dead. If I was to drag him out I would much rather use the webbibg I carry in my pocket and sling it around his body and under his arms, then drag him out or tie it to his scba shoulder straps and drag him out. You have the right idea about training to save the life of another ff and using things like the love knot. You just have to keep looking at other opptions. Keep training. Some day you will say to your self, " Man I can't believe I told people to do it like that. Man was I wrong" It will come with the experiance. Sound like you have quite a bit all ready. Keep up the good work.
05-17-1999, 02:22 PM #14e33Firehouse.com Guest
WOW....i guess ive been going to the wrong place to get my training. Maybe I should have been going somewhere else.
Sir, i understand that you see this in a different way than some of us. I have done it with "my lovers knot," it only took 2 of us, and we were able to bring a ff through a very narrow opening. The profile of a human being with their hands straigt up above their head is the smallest possible profile you can get. With something under the arms...the profile will be much greater, its not rocket science. I have personally been hoisted by my wrists, and my ankles...with "my lovers knot" and i have to say it has been quite smooth and painless..and both of my shoulders are still in place..WOW.
In my opinion it really doesnt matter what type of apparatus you bring as a RIT company. The important things you need to remember are: do you have the necessary tools and ladders (which may already be on location), do you have radios, can you secure a water supply and do you have a spare air supply for the trapped ff(s).
Remember, there are alot of different ways to do things, it's what works best for you.
[This message has been edited by e33 (edited May 17, 1999).]
05-17-1999, 05:41 PM #15Halligan84Firehouse.com Guest
We teach the "love" knot for firefighter rescue because it is simple to tie without looking at it and most guys have the equipment to do it. Our theory and recomendation is a 40' small diameter personal line carried by each member. If a rescue has to be made, the knot is tied in the center of the rope, leaving 2 tails to pull on, when both knots are placed (using 2 ropes) it leaves you with 4 tails for use by additional members. We experimented with quite a few methods and found that placing the knots high on the arms works well and doesn't require as much pain on the victims part. You should also try the same method, but have the victim stand in the loops and clip his scba waist strap around the lifting ropes, this required less pulling (lift), allowed the use of the victims hands and was more comfortable. This lift is possible by 2 members but it is brutal. There were some teams that just couldn't do it. The use of wristlets requires equipment that is not on the members personally and the use of webbing would still require a rope to attach it to. A hauling system inside the building in most cases would not be practical, but don't overlook the use of a prebagged 4:1 attached to a ladder placed high over a window and passed in to the interior crew for coming out of a window and lowering.
By the way, 40 students - no injuries attributed to this maneuver
[This message has been edited by Halligan84 (edited May 17, 1999).]
05-19-1999, 02:43 AM #16IckymowFirehouse.com Guest
First I want to say I am truly sorry if I offended you especialy e33. That was not my intent. The use of this knot is taught quite a bit now and it works well. As a member of an industrial confined space rescue team and a captain in a good sized FD I have learned this knot and also learned several options to it. Lifting is dificult if you are lifting dead weight. Usuly trying to lift a ff by yourself is next to impossible. I mean to lift him off the floor and pull him up to another floor. If you are draging him that is another story. LA Rescue, START Rescue, And ROCO Rescue have taught rescue classes for us and I have learned several opptions to the hand-cuff-knot. Rope inharently wants to cut into what ever you wrap it around. Webbing has all the steangth and won't cut as bad. You can make the same knot with webbing and it will work. Also pulling some one up with there arms over there head can and some times will do damage to there shoulder joints and there arms, especialy if they are over weight. Please understand I am not attacking you or your ideas. This is a down and dirty knot that you can use to save some ones life and it can be easily taught to others for that pourpous. I have some other ideas that I use that work for me. Sorry if I offended you. I like this form because it is open and all can express thier ideas. I may have been a little to forcefull and cutting. I can be like that some times. Sorry
05-28-1999, 08:51 PM #17fyrescueFirehouse.com Guest
Ickymow, as I stated in an earlier post, our section is developing a common SOP, based on the draft from both counties and other sources. I'm also a believer this is nothing new, we always rescued our own when the need arose. But due to manpower shortages we can not always turn out 2 or 3 pieces, especially during the day. This is why we are developing a common SOP so the company assigned to RIT knows what is expected, procedurally, so they are there, ready when needed.
Unforntunately in our county in the recent past there was a firefighter who fell through the floor into the burning basement. When a MAY DAY call was announced, the people standing in manpower and rehab were scrabbling to get geared up to make the rescue. The 2-3 minutes it took them to get in action could have ment someones life. Luckily he was rescued without injury. But this incident really brought this issue to the forefront.
While this is not a NEW concern, as many of you have noted, it is the BUZZ right now because there is a problem in many areas. I don't believe anyone has to re-invent the wheel or buy any new equipment or gadgets, just re-visit your procedures and practice them. I compare it to the "Jaws of Life" period some years ago, where they wanted to sell you a bright new hydraulic rescue tool because it was the fad. We still make many rescues with HAND TOOLS!
Sometimes I think "Hallmark" is behind all the hype. They must have an interest in the equipment business as well as greeting cards!
[This message has been edited by fyrescue (edited May 30, 1999).]
06-24-1999, 11:18 PM #18ff161Firehouse.com Guest
Hey everyone, all of the ideas have pros and cons. Just knowing them could be enough to do the trick some day though. From the handcuff knot which I also know and have trained with extensivly, to the webbing under the armpits, they are all great ideas. Remember that they are all just more tools in the box.
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