NEWSGROUPS, Message Forums - FYI
Conf: TRAINING PROGRAMS
From: Jerry Smith - ICQ 10085418 (email@example.com)
Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 10:48 AM
...Because it does! (LAFD IN-SERVICE TRAINING SECTION)
As you know, there has been considerable discussion on why fire fighters die, and I for one, would hope this discussion never stops. And for this reason, one of us may bring something to the light of day that may trigger an everlasting thought in a members mind. So much so that on his or her next response -- for example, a thought will ask this question: "Where is the fire and what is it doing?"
We've assembled a tremendous reservoir of talent, experience and insight on the
Emergency Grapevine. And why not, we've been together some 15 months, and everyday new registrations come on board to add to our evolving, growing base of expertise and knowledge.
Now, let me digress for a moment and look at some of the causes of LODD. Like floor or roof collapse, being hit by a motor vehicle at an incident scene, becoming trapped
inside a structure to name a few.
Before I go on, were these deaths preventable? The answer may rightly depend on
circumstances at the incident at any particular time. Sometimes conditions change rapidly and without notice we lose our ability to interpret and react accordingly.
So, with that, we have to accept and respect the unknown hazards that may exist prior to
our arrival, and if we don't pay attention and apply the strictest of training standards
involving safe fire fighting and rescue operations, we too, could become the next statistic.
Yes, we may be our own worst enemy, indifference and apathy does prevail. Do we have lapses in memory, caught up in the moment of thrill and excitement? Why do we
challenge the limits of risk and safety and disregard our own personal survival?
When we arrive on scene do we ask ourselves?
1. What is the occupancy type, building construction, etc.?
2. Is anyone inside? How long has fire been burning?
3. Are there tell tale signs of incomplete combustion?
4. Can I see the main body of fire?
5. Do I know what's inside the structure?
6. Is it necessary to go inside this structure, is it safe?
7. Do I have back up resources in place?
In recent years, after action fatality reports have told us that we should have known more about the building and its contents before we entered. Time and time again, we hear about or even witness someone getting killed, and later find out that should have not ever happened.
I've said enough, it's your turn, and let's don't get caught up in disputing what anyone says. If, you have a better idea, a lesson learned, let's hear it.
Our members will sort out the good stuff. It's not that were not so smart, we just have to be reminded from time to time about what's really important...
Have you developed a Search and Rescue/Rapid Intervention Team procedure?
Jerry Smith, Administrator
"Over 1,000,000 Visitors"
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01-14-1999, 01:49 PM #1jerryfireFirehouse.com Guest
"Train as if your life depends on it"
01-15-1999, 01:27 PM #2jerryfireFirehouse.com Guest
Topic: 'Train as if your life depends on it' (3 of 3), Read 6 times
Conf: TRAINING PROGRAMS
From: Jerry Smith - ICQ 10085418 (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 11:08 AM
On Your Next Fire-Rescue Response NIOSH Recommends...
The Fire Fighter Fatality Investigation and Prevention Program is conducted by the
National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH). The purpose of the
program is to determine factors that cause or contribute to fire fighter deaths suffered in
the line of duty. Identification of causal and contributing factors enable researchers and safety specialists to develop strategies for preventing future similar incidents.
The following are recommendations following firefighter fatalities in 1998
1. Ensure that incident command conducts an initial size up of the incident before
initiating firefighting efforts, and continually evaluate the risk versus gain during operation at an incident.
2. Ensure that incident command always maintains close accountability for all
personnel at the fire scene.
3. Ensure communications are established between the interior and exterior attack
crews, e.g., the ventilation crew and the interior fire attack crew should
communicate conditions among themselves and back to incident command.
4. Ensure that Rapid Intervention Teams are in place before conditions become unsafe.
5. Ensure that some type of tone or alert that is recognized by all fire fighters be
transmitted immediately when conditions become unsafe for fire fighters.
6. Ensure sufficient personnel are available and properly functioning communications
equipment are available to adequately support the volume of radio traffic at multiple-responder fire scenes.
7. Consider placing a bright, narrow-beamed light at the entry portal to a structure to
assist lost or disoriented fire fighters in emergency egress.
8. Ensure that fire command always maintains close accountability for all personnel at
the fire scene.
9. Ensure all fire fighters wear and use personal alert safety system (PASS) devices
when involved in fire fighting, rescue, or other hazardous duties.
10. Develop and implement written maintenance procedures for self-contained breathing apparatus.
11. Ensure that fire command always maintains close accountability for all personnel at
the fire scene.
12. Ensure at least four fire fighters be on the scene before initiating interior fire
fighting operations at a working structural fire.
13. Ensure that fire fighters who enter hazardous areas, e.g., burning or suspected
unsafe structures, be equipped with two-way communications with incident command. (Trapped in attic)
14. Ensure that pre-fire planning and inspections cover all structural building
materials/components. (Roof Failure)
15. Ensure that standard operating procedures and equipment are adequate and sufficient to support the volume of radio traffic at multiple-responder fire scenes. (Sudden Roof Failure - Kills Two firefighters)
16. Ensure that fire fighters who enter hazardous areas, e.g., burning or suspected
unsafe structures, be equipped with life lines or a hose line. (Disorientation)
17. Ensure that departments establish and implement an incident management system
with written standard operating procedures for all fire fighters. (Unsafe practice)
18. Ensure command makes the decision to ventilate a truss roof based on conditions on arrival. (Backdraft Explosion)
19. Ensure fire fighters do not enter a structure fire during ventilation with a
potential for backdraft or flashover.
20. Ensure fire fighters conducting ventilation on the roof are in communication
21. Encourage municipalities to review their commercial building codes regarding exposed polystyrene insulation.
22. Ensure that fire fighters advise dispatch of any change in conditions that would
warrant a change in the status of unit(s) responding to a specific condition.
23. Ensure that pre-fire planning and inspections cover all structural building
materials/components and exterior walls. (Wall collapse kills fire fighter)
24. Should establish a collapse zone around buildings that have parapet walls that
25. Ensure that a separate Incident Safety Officer, independent from the Incident
Commander is appointed.
01-17-1999, 03:52 AM #3TillermanFirehouse.com Guest
JerryFire, I totaly agree with what you are saying however, more firefighters die each year from heart attacks than all the others combined. These issues also need to be discussed and looked at. I feel that the bigger issues need to be dealt with first and then move on. Do we have healthy firefighters?? Larger fire departments are dealing with this issue today however, small rural fire departments are neglecting the fitness levels of their members. What can be done to ensure these small departments are recruiting healthy fit volunteers(or career). please I would like your input on this. I am also with you 100% on what you are saying about size up and common sense keep up the great work.
01-17-1999, 11:13 AM #4HHoffmanFirehouse.com Guest
Tillerman has a great point! The Department I work for lets us go to the gym each shift. Most of the firefighters spend about an hour working out. How do you get the Vol. Departments, or older members in the Paid Departments to do this? Can you force members to get fit? Just my 2 cents.
01-18-1999, 06:37 PM #5HollywoodFirehouse.com Guest
One of the main contributing factors to the heart attacks are heat stress. Studies have shown that bunker gear increases the body's core temp. to dangerously high levels as soon as 8 minutes of activity ( Fire Engineering Nov. '94). The added heat causes stress to the heart as it tries to increase blood flow in an effort to cool the body. Tactics in heat management and rehab have to be enforced to keep the firefighters cool.
01-24-1999, 02:12 AM #6SGFDDAWG578Firehouse.com Guest
I agree with all of yall,training is so very important whether it is just working out in the gym or training on tactics or basics.I have seen to many firefighters or fire depts that you could tell by there gross mistakes that they just had no type of training program.These are the dept. that i hate working with because you never know when there gonna make a mistake and possibly take your life or one of your brothers lives.I wish these depts. would open there eyes and see how stupid and foolish they look.Thats one thing they drive home at our dept. is training keeps you alive...
01-24-1999, 10:26 AM #7cwernerFirehouse.com Guest
Its great to see everyone discussing such important points and sharing ideas and concerns. But in this case, everyone is right. But for LODD, there are many aspects to solving this problem.
1. Healthy firefighters through diet and exercise. Fairfax County, VA FD has instituted one of the best programs with its own Health and Fitness Division.
2. Training is paramount so that firefighters and officers alike can understand fire behavior and the various possibilities at given incidents.
3. Officers must be trained in the areas of incident command, especially the do's and dont's and it must be regular training. This is one of the areas that most departments are probably lacking. In Phoenix, they use simulation training and have regular IC simulated incidents to train their people. Not knowing the proper command procedures, implementing a safety officer and accountability to name a few.
4. Firefighters must be trained in self survival skills and this should be included in the basic firefighting certifications. Each FF's life may depend on it! Too many times, FF's have died with only a drywall between them and safety.
5. Safety must be constantly taught and emphasized. We must make better efforts to keep unnecessary personnel at safe locations. While we all want to be a part and see what is happening, it sometimes works to our demise.
6. There must be constant lobbying to Congress for FD funding. And we must push for new technologies to help protect our firefighters (i.e. electronic accountablity systems, better PAS devices, better turnout gear, etc.)
7. Lastly, we need to strengthen sprinkler laws in both commercial and residential properties. And we need to refocus our attentions to prevention, which inevitably reduces the risk of death to firefighters and civilians alike.
Just some thoughts.
[This message has been edited by cwerner (edited 01-24-99).]
01-30-1999, 10:46 PM #8nagrag2362Firehouse.com Guest
I for one am not in good shape I am a volunteer for a large dept. The city has its own rec dept. we are allowed to use it for free. After seeing the issues that were brought up I am going to start hitting the gym. thanks guys did not know it was that important, It is nice to know people care about you that don't even know you.
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