Here's a question...
How much water in GPM is your department able to move with tankers? (Including mutual aid, etc)
Do you have pre-planned tanker assignments?
Do you rate the tankers on the Gallons-per-minute-per mile they can deliver?
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06-09-1999, 01:50 PM #1Dalmation90Firehouse.com Guest
How much water do you move with Tankers?
06-09-1999, 04:23 PM #2Jim M.Firehouse.com Guest
We have relied on tanker shuttles forever. Just recently got hydrants on one main road passing thru town. The SOP has always been to scream for more water until the fire went out. We have now put together tanker task force lists with responding apparatus based on mileage. No one goes on list without quick dumps. When we need water - we call for first team, then second team, etc. Works well. Needs continuous practice since everyone wants to position dump tanks differently. Not currently figuring GPM per mile per minute but that's a good concept. With such a wide variety of road surfaces and weather conditions, not sure how practical that would be here in New England. Have to give it some thought.
06-09-1999, 05:51 PM #3Ken ApelFirehouse.com Guest
We do not use the GPM per mile figure.That was only used for our ISO inspection for selected hazards. We have 3 tankers respond on automatic aid for any structure fire plus our 2 ( all 1800 to 2000 gallon). We have predetermined fill sites and a water supply officer to control the operation. Find this works very well for us
06-09-1999, 06:10 PM #4stone35Firehouse.com Guest
Our entire deparment structure is based around water shuttling. There are very few hydrants in our rural areas. Currently we have 15 tankers to supply our water needs. These trucks are broken down into zones, but our two main tankers are able to move freely to any point within the county. At any given fire we carry upwards of 6000 or 7000 gallons of water.
06-09-1999, 06:20 PM #5firefighter60Firehouse.com Guest
Intresting topic here. I, also, belong to a rural department. We have NO city water supply. We tank every drop in. With a second alarm on a fire we can maintain a 500gpm fire flow. If we go to a third alarm that goes up to almost 1000gpm, but we have a long wait until all those units get there and are incorporated into the tanker rotation. By the time we get to a third alarm we have additional engines setting up fills sites. Yes plural. We try to set them up so that the tankers can drive by the drop tank whenever possible. It helps cut down on the turn around time.
06-09-1999, 10:29 PM #6K AFirehouse.com Guest
We shuttled 3100 gpm according to ISO. We scored all 35 points in water. The best rig shuttled 535 gpm. It helped drop our city rating from a 7 to a 3 and our rural area from a 10 to a 3.
We have preplanned tanker and fill site assignments and mutual aid. We cover a 300 sq mile area. Initial attack draws 25,000 gallons.
What ISO ratings is everyone getting with their shuttles?
We rate all rigs on a gpm basis. We use rectangle dumps instread of round or square, overhead fills and as many as three 3000 gallon drop tanks per tender.
06-09-1999, 10:56 PM #7jsouzaFirehouse.com Guest
The last major fire we had that tankers were used at (dairy farm equipment barn) was about 3 years ago (the vast majority of the town is hydranted). Using 2 mutual aid tankers (I'm not sure of the size, I believe they were both 5000 gallons), a 1250gpm pumper at the fill site, and a 1.5 mile run, we had 300 gallons/minute for 2.5 hours (45000 gallons total, 9 trips). It was kind of an impromptu set up, we also had a 3500' 4" line flowing from the last hydrant on the way to the fire. That was a long night. But here in 1999, we've gotten a 1500 gallon tanker, and we've gotten together with the mutual aid companies to move water around in non-emergency conditions. I don't know how fast we moved it then, but it was almost certainly faster than what we had before.
06-10-1999, 09:55 AM #8Dalmation90Firehouse.com Guest
So far this is staying interesting...
jsouza -- if you flowed 300gpm 1.5mile from the fill site, that's 450gpm/mile...and the math works because that equals 225gpm/mile per tanker...which is what I would expect from that size tankers
K A -- what was the distance for that 3100gpm shuttle? And Hazen is in Churchill County if I don't miss my guess?
06-10-1999, 10:48 AM #9K AFirehouse.com Guest
Dalmation. Four corners Colorado, distance was 1.2 miles uphill for 3100 gpm
06-15-1999, 10:11 PM #10morrissFirehouse.com Guest
I too belong to a rural department that relies heavily on tankers. Our county has tankers from 1500 gallons to 3200 gallons. I think the important concept is to call fro additional resources early. We generally have three companies (engines, tankers, 1 aerial, several support units) on each structure fire. We have predefined dry hydrant locations in addition to two towns with hydrants.
With rural water supply, the best that you can do is to keep the fire ground supplied with water. This is accomplished by having very similar fill/dump times for all of the tankers in the shuttle and having an engine drafting to efficiently fill the tannkers at the fill site.
06-17-1999, 07:40 AM #11S. CookFirehouse.com Guest
With three - 750 gallon engines and one 3850 gallon tanker, we shuttled 814 gpm one mile and 296 gpm 5 miles in accordance with ISO standards.
[This message has been edited by S. Cook (edited June 17, 1999).]
06-30-1999, 06:32 PM #12Lt_JohnFirehouse.com Guest
We cover a 56 sq mile area that includes limited hydrants and mostly estate sized residential property.
We run all of our engines with minimum of 800 gallon tanks and we have 3,000 gallon tanker with a 3,000 gallon drop tank. A minimum of 3 engines and the tanker are dispatched to all fires (or possible fires). Just a note we are combination department w/on duty personnel of 8 and 36 POCs.
On a typical fire we will pull a box which brings 4 3,000 gallon plus tankers from nearby departments - average response time <10 minutes. Each subsequent alarm brings 4 more tankers. Average well-involved house fire would go to second - so nine tankers and we easily maintain a 500+GPM.
For filling we have also implemented a system of dry hydrants. These have been very effective and have cut our drive time for fill up in half. We currently maintain over 50 dry hydrants.
Hope this helps.
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