I am currently looking at trying to modify the current hose loads carried by my engine company. We are a small volunteer department with mostly residential and some farms as well as light industrial.
Current set up:
2 crosslay beds, under the top mount pump panel, approx 4' from ground level. Outlets are in the trough so they are inaccessible unless the hose is unloaded. They are wide enough for 2 side by side stacks of 1.75".
Front line in 100' bumper tray with chicksan in the tray.
Rear line is 200' 3" with Combo Akron Turbojet (breakaway style). The piping comes out in the front of the bed, so unless you open up the top its inaccessible.
None of these loads have any dead hose packed under them but there are two beds above the pump panel of 200' each 1.75" dead hose.
Supply is from 1200' snaptite 5" with storz couplings. There is a bed of 3" 1000' with the female coupling packed out. There is no hydrant valve or manifold to attach to the 5" line either.
We are mainly nonhydranted, and larger homes with decent setbacks. Heres what I want to know. If you had to set this pumper up for service as a semi-rural attack engine what type of hose loads would you put on it.
Also, there are no rear discharges with the exception of the one for the large line.
There is 1000 gal of water and a 1500 gpm pump as well
Id like to know the opinions of anyone who can offer me suggestions as far as lengths, types and load style of the lines. Tell me what I have to buy too! so I can make my pitch.
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Thread: New Hose Loads
07-21-1999, 01:54 PM #1e33Firehouse.com Guest
New Hose Loads
07-21-1999, 04:13 PM #2Jim M.Firehouse.com Guest
I assume you have a gated Jaffrey for your 5 inch when you use it as a supply line. I also assume that you have a universal adapter on the end of the 3 inch so you can push water both ways. The hydrant valve and a distributor or gated wye along with an assortment of 5 X 3 adapters are essential. From the sounds of it, you could be attack or supply depnding on who gets to the scene first. Any appliances pre-connected? Using a lightweight deck gun, preconnected to a 3 inch that you can place into action quickly really helps when help is slow to arrive. Good luck. This could be a really interesting thread.
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07-21-1999, 06:52 PM #3FFtazUFC3Firehouse.com Guest
I would Probably Use the following Loads:
Crosslays: 200' 1.75 "MinuteMan Load"
Set these up to be able to pull one line from driver side and One line from Officers side.
Bumper Tray: 100' 1.5 or 1.75 "Flat Load"
Rear Line: 200' 3" w/either a gated "Y" or the Portable DeckGun as Jim suggested.
Supply: the 1200' of 5" "Flat Load" will be
Enough. Just make sure the couplings are moved to the front of the bed and will not "flip over" as the hose comes off.
This is the set up that most of the Dpts in my area use and it works well for us.
FF/EMT-B Paul Cullen
07-21-1999, 08:05 PM #4K AFirehouse.com Guest
----Supply: the 1200' of 5" "Flat Load" will be
Of course if you intend to use the 5 inch to supply the rig in a rural setting with a tanker you'll leave 1200 gallon of water in a 5" line versus 300 gallons with the 3 inch
07-21-1999, 09:21 PM #5Dalmation90Firehouse.com Guest
On the other hand, you'll limit how much water you'll push up to the scene...
3" = 500gpm @ 1200'
4" = 950gpm @ 1200'
5" = 1250gpm+ @ 1200'
We use 4" on attack truck, 5" on the other...and concede the first tanker at the end of the driveway is going to go to filling the line...after that other incoming tankers can pump it at 750-1000gpm.
07-21-1999, 11:12 PM #6S. CookFirehouse.com Guest
For all but the LDH and the bumper, I like the tri-fold. This allows all of the line to be pulled from the bed in roughly 1/3 the length of the line (e.g. a 150' line has to be pulled 50' to clear the bed). The crosslays can be pulled from either side of the rig with this set up. We also found that this load reduces our instances of charging a still partially bedded line. It is also easier to tote the hose in a tri-fold if you need to extend another line.
For the bumper, we use a side by side double donut roll. Just take the rolls out, lay them on the ground, grab the nozzle and the coupling and take off. We are looking at the load that Kentland is using to see how it will work for us in this application (see it in last months Fire Rescue).
Just a straight flat (couplings forward) load for the 5". Too much trouble to do it any other way (unless it's on a reel) and other loads only improve parade looks anyway.
And I'd add a water thief in close proximity to the 3" attack line you have (so it is easy to get and stretch with the line) and preconnect it with a pigtail that is as long as it takes to get from the connection to the tail board so it is easy to break and still have your 200'. You might add another 100' to it also so you can get around some of your larger buildings and those with longer setbacks.
Using the water thief, 300' of 3" and a little teamwork, 2 firefighters can put a 450 to 500 foot lay (depending on your crosslay length) in service in just a few minutes and get pretty decent flows.
07-22-1999, 01:16 PM #7Bob SnyderFirehouse.com Guest
I'd generally agree with Paul (FFtazUFC3), with a few additions/changes:
Keep the 3" as a parallel load to the 5", both as an altenative in the event of a slow water supply response (as KA said, you'll tie up less water in the 3"), and to give you some extra 3" to work with (more on this below).
If you're going to use the gated wye on the 3" preconnect, it might pay to have two 150' or 200' 1 3/4" lines with nozzles packed as high-rise packs on the rig somewhere. Then if you use the 3" to overcome a long setback, you have attack lines that you can rapidly deploy from the wye, without messing around with your crosslays.
I'd put a Navy Nozzle on the front 100' line, because that's my preference for cars, dumpsters, and other things that a 100' trash line is likely to be used for. I know that they're ancient technology by today's standards, but they also work really well if used properly and you can buy them cheap on the internet.
For the rear, it depends on what you get into. You said that you're mostly rural, so I don't imagine that hydrant valves are a factor. If you get into tanker fills, you may want some additional hardware so that you can fill whatever comes down the road. This is also a place where extra 3" comes in handy, especially if some of the tankers you see don't have any fills bigger than 2 1/2". You may want to have a 2 1/2" nozzle handy in case you want to use that 3" for exposure coverage or other defensive operations.
It's a shame that you can't re-configure the crosslays. We use 150' preconnected 1 3/4" minuteman loads on each side with an additional 50' dry section next to them that can be used to quickly extend the preconnect to 200' if needed. That saves you from all kinds of extra spaghetti in cases where you don't need the additional 50'.
07-23-1999, 08:35 AM #8Jim M.Firehouse.com Guest
Scott Cook - what is the "tri-fold"? Never heard of that one.
Bob Snyder - what is a "Navy" nozzel?
07-23-1999, 11:49 AM #9Bob SnyderFirehouse.com Guest
A Navy Nozzle is an Akron Model 2069 with a Model 2073 (extended) fog tip attachment (commonly known as the "wand" where I come from). For the details and pix directly from the manufacturer, go to:
Basically, it's a two-position nozzle which delivers either a 5/8" stratight-stream or a fog flow (52 gpm @100 psi) from an 1 1/2" or 1 3/4" line without changing nozzles. The detachable "wand" gives you a four foot extension to the fog flow with 90 degree bend for getting around, into, or under things. There is also a 2 1/2" inlet version (see website). Great for an engine compartment-only or passenger compartment-only fire, as well as dumpsters and the like.
Before anybody goes nuts on me here, I'd just like to say that I wouldn't pull this first on a fully involved (both engine and passenger compartment) vehicle fire, I'd go right to the standard 1 3/4" attack line to get the full 95 gpm. Also, our SOP calls for a backup standard 1 3/4" attack line to be pulled and standing by, no matter which other line is pulled first, so there is virtually no chance of getting caught exposed with only 52 gpm if it gets away.
07-23-1999, 08:16 PM #10S. CookFirehouse.com Guest
The tri-fold is just what we call the triple layer load described in the IFSTA Essentials Manual (4th edition pg. 421).
Basically, you just "S" the line back on itself before flat loading it in the bed. Some folks like the nozzle on the top (like IFSTA shows) and some like it between the hose, it doesn't matter, whatever works best for you.
IFSTA shows it as being for lines that come off the rear, but we use it for the crosslays/speedlays too. Works great for us. All the line gets pulled out of the rig and it's in reasonably good shape to charge without having to chase out a lot of kinks (once it's out of the bed, it only has 2 folds in it).
07-24-1999, 10:51 PM #11FirehoseFirehouse.com Guest
Our department just changed all crosslays to triple folds and we love it. pulls easy, absolutely no tangles, loads super fast and looks good.
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