Thread: Crosslay Hose Loads
12-23-1999, 01:46 PM #1JAPFPEFirehouse.com Guest
Crosslay Hose Loads
I'm curious to hear what different types of hose loads are used for preconnected lines and the pro's and con's of each. I'm a member of a small upstate NY department and we're experimenting with different loads. Currently we use the standard flat load with "speed loops" located midway in the load. We typically pack 200 ft of 1-3/4 in. hose in our beds which were unfortunately designed for two widths of 1-1/2 in.
We have experimented with the "Mattydale" load but have found that due to the width of teh beds and our nozzles (TFT's w/ pistol grip), that they can only be pulled from one side of teh engine. Additionally, the hose is rather tight in the bed and it takes some tugging to pull it out far enough to get the top 150 ft. on the shoulder. We have also found it difficult for some of the members of smaller build to carry 150 ft. of hose, two sections wide, on their shoulder. The advantages of the load is that you "lay" the line to the fire versus pulling the hose to the fire. We have also tried packing the hose such that only 100 ft. goes on the shoulder with 50 ft. pulled with speed loopps and the other 50 ft. "dead" loaded in the bottom of the bed. Another "problem" with the "Mattydale" was people couldn't remember how to re-pack the load but that's a training issue.
We have also experimented with the "Triple Layer". It essentially results in a big loop of hose on the ground once it is pulled from the bed. It is packed by connecting the end of the hose to the preconnect piping, then attaching the nozzle and stretching the hose out straight from the engine. The nozzle is then brought back to the engine forming a loop, then the nozzle is brought back to the inside of the loop and the end of the hose away from the engine. This results in a large loop (1/3 the length of the line) with the nozzle at the closed end of the loop away from the engine. The line is then simply folded over (3 hose thicknesses at a time) starting at the engine as it is loaded in the bed. The line ends up in the bed with the nozzle on top of the load between two thicknesses of hose.
What are others doing out there and what works. We are a smaller volunteer department in a college town. Our response area is primarily residential (larger single-family) with some light industrial, and the college which has several mid-rise dormitories.
Hamilton Fire Department
12-23-1999, 06:02 PM #2Lieutenant GonzoFirehouse.com Guest
On our engine company (Marlborough Engine 3, "the Beast in the East") we have a 100 foot "junk line" of 1 3/4", two mattydale preconnects 150 feet of 1 3/4" hose and 200 feet of 2" hose, both with combination nozzles. The rear preconnects are 300 feet of 1 3/4" hose with combo nozzle and 200 feet of 2 1/2" with an 1 1/8" smooth bore nozzle.
The 1 3/4" and 2" lines are made up with "ears" (what you call speed loops) to make them easier to pull. The junk line is flat loaded on top of the compartments on the left side of the engine. Have you tried adjusting the dividers on the hose beds to make pulling lines easier?
Take care and be safe...Lt. Gonzo
12-24-1999, 01:33 AM #3LedbellyFirehouse.com Guest
We use the Triple Load for our 1 3/4" crosslays (w/fogs)... one is 200' and one is 150'. In the rear, hosebeds carry up to 1300' of 5" on one side and 400-800' of 3" on the other.(depending on room) On the end of the 3" load is 150' of 2 1/2" with fog nozzle and the speed loops. (to find it) A few of the engines still have 50' of 2 1/2" wyed into two 1 1/2" mouse loads (better known as rat's nest) up there also.
Each engine also carries 150-200' of 2 1/2" w/1 1/8" OBT as a high-rise load. Most of em have it loaded into a high-rise bag (better known as mule pack) and stored in a separate compartment. Couple of em have a flat load belted together instead of the mule pack.
Our response is similar to yours, primarily residential, w/light industry though we do have some high-rise response downtown. We've gone to the Triple Load within the last 5-6 yrs and like it... had no major problems. That's too bad it doesn't fit your crosslay beds. (like it sounds) We had to get 2-3 engines modified to carry the 5"... adding a little height to the sidewalls of hosebed... and it was done "in house".
12-24-1999, 09:43 AM #4hellcat609Firehouse.com Guest
My department uses the triple load exclusively. We have 2 1"3/4 preconnects on the crosslays with usually 150ft on each. We have also added a foam tank for class A foam and have a 1 3/4 preconnect on the rear of the engine for this. Since our area is mainly rural and mostly tanker ops, we use the foam line instead of a 2 1/2". We also carry 1200ft of 3" in the hose bed. Some of our engines still have 2 1/2 but with the 3" if we need the big flows we will pull some of that off. Again, the tripple load seems to work best for us. Its a little harder to load than a flat load but once you get used to it its faster. You just need maybe one extra man to help out. Also the tripple load pulls off the truck much easier than a flat load. Usually 3 flops and all of it is out of the rack. Hope this helped.
12-24-1999, 02:47 PM #5Hammerhead338Firehouse.com Guest
All of our loads are done in the flat way. On the second layer the hose is left out from the truck about a foot, to give you a loop to grab on to.
Have a good day and be safe.
12-24-1999, 03:42 PM #6AffFirehouse.com Guest
All of our preconnects are in a mattydale. 150' to 200' depending on the engine, including a 200' 2 1/2" on the squirt. The trash line in the bumper of the squirt is in a basket lay. The mattydales are great until someone gets excited and drops the loop. The skids in the rear are done in a flat load.
12-24-1999, 05:31 PM #7firecat72Firehouse.com Guest
We have used the triple fold also but we fold it in a "Z" with the nozzle on top of the load. From your message you sounded like you folded your in an " e" type.
You can flat load and crisscross in the middle of the bed and stagger the bends from side to side. we leave the nozzle closer to the side, one on each side of the engine
12-24-1999, 09:57 PM #8FyredUpFirehouse.com Guest
We use either the minute man with the nozzle loaded in at 100 feet, or the bundle pack. The bundle pack is a flat load with the top 100' bundled together with velcro straps. The nozzle person grabs the bundle and either the back-up FF or MPO clears the bed of remaining hose. We like these loads because it is easy to advance because you carry the hose instead of drag it.
12-25-1999, 04:26 AM #9STA2Firehouse.com Guest
My career dept. and vol. dept. have/do use was we call the "California Skid Load", better known as the "Speed lay", "Triple Lay" or "Z" load. They are great for single family dwellings were you have the room to pull 1/3 of the hose out straight and then drop the rest and flake it out. If you don't it turns into a "spaghetti bowl". Someone said they tried this and it turns into a pile of hose. Something isn't being done right if this happens. In my career dept. we have ALOT of 3 story garden apartments. What hurts us is that you can't always spot the engine where there is a straight line to your objective. There always seems to be a wall, car, trees, etc. in between the rig and the fire. If you have to spot next to the stairscase and need to go up stairs it is not good. A simple flat load of 4 with no loops followed by 2 with loops works good. We leave the pigtail section out on the officers side so we can disconnect it from our rig and attach it to another or our apartment lay. Our apartment lay is 200' of 4" hose with a 4" to 4 2-1/2" manifold. 1 FF grabs the apt. lay and 1 FF grabs a crosslay and they go. The E/O hooks up the apt. lay to the LD Discharge and you got an attack line. My volunteer dept. has done away with the "Speed Lay" and gone back to the above mentioned Flat Load. Our apartment lay is different. We use 250' of 3" pre-connected in the rear tray with a gated wye attached and 150' of 1-3/4" attached with a nozzle. We put a loop in the 3" right under the wye. The 1-3/4" is flat loaded in a tray next to the 3" apt. lay tray. The nozzle and gated wye are strapped together. 1 FF pulls the wye and nozzle and goes. 1 FF then helps get the remaining 3" out of the tray (Which is minimal because it pulls easy)and then goes. The 1st FF DOEN'T drop the 1-3/4" until the 3" is layed out. With the wye closed, the 3" can then be charged while the 1-3/4" is being stretched into position. Be safe.
12-26-1999, 09:51 PM #10morrissFirehouse.com Guest
We use the minuteman loads also. We pack two 200 ft 1 3/4" crosslays, 1 200 ft 2.5" rear, and 1 250 ft 1 3/4" rear load. The 200 length hoses are 100 ft down and 100 ft on the shoulder. The 250 ft hose is 150 down and 100 on the shoulder.
12-27-1999, 07:00 PM #11RomaniaFirehouse.com Guest
We currently have 4 preconected lines. (2) 200' of 1-3/4" hose that are flat loaded with loops in our cross lays, (1) 100' 1-3/4" trash line that is triple loaded in our front bumper, and a 2-1/2" 250' line flat loaded with loops in the rear deadlay. Additioally we carry 600' of 2-1/2" hose and 1000' of 4" supply line. I like the flat load with loops over the other types of loads for crosslays and deadlays It comes out easy, and it is easy to load. The triple load is easy for the front bumper, where you have little line, but is a pain in the butt when you are loading a cross lay, works well as a deadlay though.
Just my opnion, I like to keep things simple.
Alan Romania, CEP
IAFF Local 3449
My Opinions do not reflect the opnions of the IAFF or Local 3449.
12-29-1999, 12:44 PM #12STBURNEFirehouse.com Guest
We experimented with the triple layer which worked outstanding in training. On our first fire with the load, it failed however. The problem that we ran into is the same as what STA2 referred to: no straight line between the apparatus and the fire. Most of our fires occur in residences with long narrow driveways. This results in spotting the engine at a right angle to the point of attack. When we pull the triple layer, we immediately must turn 90 degrees to go to the fire due to the narrowness of the driveway. This was too much for the triple layer to handle and would bind up in the crosslay bed. We were very dissapointed because the triple layer had worked so well in other situations. However, since most of our fires were in these same type conditions, we went back to the mattydale.
01-05-2000, 01:15 AM #13J DouglasFirehouse.com Guest
My department uses triple layer loads. We have not experienced any problems yet; however, I will admit that there will likely be some situations where another load would perform better. All crosslays seem to have problems associated with them. There is no "right" way to do it. I think that most will agree that the best crosslay load is the one that works best for you. I favor the triple layer because of its ease of deployment (in most cases). One must be prepared for the inevitable -- there will not always be a straight line to the fire. For those who use the triple lay, FAO should consider the deployment of the crosslays when parking the truck.
01-05-2000, 01:22 PM #14FallsFirefighterFirehouse.com Guest
I have noticed that some of the newer rigs have gone back to the pre-connects off of the back. The area were the cross lays would be is now compartment space. Is it possible that the rear lays are being used to have the Engine Co. pull up farther to leave the front of the Bldg. open for the Truck ?
[This message has been edited by FallsFirefighter (edited January 05, 2000).]
01-05-2000, 07:22 PM #15Captain88Firehouse.com Guest
On our department we use the minuteman load consisting of 200' of 1 3/4". This eliminates the spaghetti on the side of the truck if it's unloaded properly. If your nozzles are like ours with the pistol grips, we tuck one of the loops into the nozzle handle and it hangs on the side of the truck so it gives you more room in the bed for the crosslay. I am our training officer also, so I gave the guys their choice of loads to choose from and they seemed to like that one the best so that's what we go with now.
01-06-2000, 08:46 AM #16Bob SnyderFirehouse.com Guest
Both our quint & engine are set up the same way: For the two 1 3/4" crosslays, we use an extendable 3-stack load consisting of a 75' shoulder load containing the nozzle (not wrapped) at the bottom and 75' straight stack hooked together and preconnected, with a 50' dry section stacked next to them that the pump operator can quick-connect to extend the line. This works well by adding flexibility and avoiding all sorts of spaghetti on the ground when a 200' line isn't needed.
The trash lines are 100' single sections of 1 3/4" side-stacked in trays on the passenger side running boards. the 2 1/2" lines on the rear are just a straight pull, nozzle on top.
Supply line is flat loaded 4" and 3" side by side. 4" is stortz, so direction doesn't matter, and the 3" is setup for forward lay on the quint and reverse lay on the engine. Together, they can put down 1400' parallel 4" and 3" supply lines (600 forward and 800 reverse), if necessary.
01-12-2000, 09:11 AM #17JAPFPEFirehouse.com Guest
Thanks to everyone who replied to my query. I would have never guessed that the "Triple Layer" load is as widely used as indicated in the responses.
Hamilton Fire Department
01-14-2000, 10:40 PM #18Fire SoupFirehouse.com Guest
We have experimented with a few different hose loads but the one we now use is as follows: one 200' 1 3/4" and one 200' 2" crosslay. Both are packed 2 deep. Each has a loop 50' from the nozzel which is taken to the building entrance or one floor below the fire floor. Each crosslay also is packed with a loop at the bottom of each bed which is pulled and flaked by the officer. This system works great because the nozzleman has a light load to carry and still has 50' to work with when he reaches the aproximate fire area. By having the officer flake the remaining hose' we avoid the big pile of spaghetti on the side of the engine. It's a good technique- easy and fast!
01-22-2000, 08:08 PM #19stvfd88Firehouse.com Guest
We use the triple load in the "e" configuration. It seems to work really well. It is a little tougher to pull then the aforementioned minuteman pull, but, with proper training, the load has become a departmental favorite. Be safe!
Seminole Trail Volunteer Fire Department
01-22-2000, 10:31 PM #20FirehoseFirehouse.com Guest
Our department switched to the triple load last year and have had no problems. Our normal fireground setup is with the first due engine set up at the street giving us a straight pull to the structure. has worked great every time. The Elkhart break a part is loaded 2 feet back from the end of the loop with the nozzle on top giving us a pull loop.
Choudrant Fire Dept
01-30-2000, 01:07 AM #21firelieut14Firehouse.com Guest
With the proper and consistant (repetative basic engine company operations) training, any hose load should work. However, I favor the triple-pack also especially when you have narrow hose beds.
Flat loading with the loops is great when you don't need to have all of the hose come out of the bed. For example you have a couple of hundred feet of 3" for some sort of standpipe or sprinkler supply line (every loop may represent 100'). But to use a flat load for an 1-3/4" handline consisting of only 150' to 200', you're just asking for a pile of spaghetti at the pump panel.
Flat loading has it's uses though. On our "blitz" line (200' of 2-1/2 with a smooth bore nozzle, preconnected off of the rear) we pack 100' up and 100' down. The first 100' is connected to the discharge and flat loaded with a loop after the first 50'. Now with the male end (nozzle) facing out load the next 100' on top of that. Connect the female of the top section with the male end of the bottom flat load and...presto...an easy-to-deploy minute man blitz line. After putting the nozzle and the top half on your shoulder, reach back and grab (and hold on to) the loop, walk away from the engine (a whole 50'). It's all out of the bed, and you can now go put the wet stuff on the red stuff.
And as for the problem of being to close to the structure when you pull the line off, or the wrong angle, or a narrow driveway, again I say just one word: TRAINING
The above message is of my own opinion, and not that of the U.S. Coast Guard or that of the Coast Guard Fire Department
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