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  1. #1
    Dalmation90
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post Well, at least the collapse zone's pretty small.

    Well, the call sounded like your typical house fire call.

    Engine 1 on scene...errr, smoke showing, no house showing...investigating....(ge e, did I just say that over the air?)

    District 1 to Engine 1, isn't that an underground house there? Er, yep Chief. Engine 1 to dispatch, we have smoke showing from an underground house.

    <IMG SRC=http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF2/images/217.jpg>

    Let's figure the door by the bedroom is the bathroom, and through that is the utility room were the fire began. 'course since then it's extended through into the hallway, up into the kitchen area, and heavy smoke banking down into the living room.

    Strategy and tactics boys! (And no laughing at the hapless Truckies trying to figure out how to vent dirt )

    Have fun, play hard, stay safe
    Matt


  2. #2
    STA2
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Talking

    I'll give it a go. 1st engine on tank water thru the front door with a 2" line w/a Vindicator VHA and T.I.C. 1st truck to the interior to assist with forcible entry and begin a primary search w/ a T.I.C. 1st truck is also knocking the top off of the fresh air intake and the bird cage off the chimney as the fan is placed at the front door. Utilities are off and the 2nd engine reverses back to the plug with a 4" line and the crew stretches another line (2" with Vindicator VHA) inside to the number 2 floor (I guess thats what you call it). 3rd engine pulls an additional line and moves to the interior to provide a back-up line in the area of the stairs. The assigned DC has "Dirt House Command on Side 1." 1 additional truck for the R.I.T. assignment and 1 Cascade Unit to the fire above the initial 3/1 and 1. Truckies for sure will open up the chimney flu and intake grates on the interior to assist with smoke removal. I would imagine alot of heat would be held in due to the dirt "insulation." One good thing is that your exposure problem should be limited. By the way, the truckies have a cake walk here. 2 quick openings up top and a rapid interior search with limited opening up. Be safe.

    Larry

  3. #3
    FFE3BFD
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Exclamation

    Don't see too many of these in the city but here it goes, I'll think like the rural guy's. 2 in 1 Response (2 ET's and a rescue) each ET with 4 and an MPO, Rescue 6 FF's.

    Strategy: An aggressive interior attack in conjunction with exterior PPV.

    Tatics:
    E1: To the front of the building, officer assumes command, strikes the 2nd alarm, calls for PD & EMS, 2 FF's force entry then stretch the inital attack line that the sop's call for, 1 FF sets up the PPV fan in the front opening.

    E2: Water supply, MPO be ready to dump tank into E1 if there is a problem finding a substained water supply, Officer and 1 FF stretch back-up line size according to the sop's from E1, 2 FF's up the hill with the proper tools to knock the bonnet off the air intake.

    Rescue: Officer and 1 FF interior SAR team equiped with the TIC, 2 FF's for utilities control first making sure the power to the air intake fan is secured, 2 FF's for the IRIT with the IC for assistance of continual size-up.

    This is going to be a hot one, the timing of the steps in this type of attack are crucial. Force entry and stretch the line to the stairs first by E1. Rescue does a primary of the living room. When the OV's report the bonnet is off and the intake fan is secured, crank-up the PPV fan and advance on the fire pushing out the intake flue. Back up line is to stay behind the 1st line to protect the inital crew. Rescue searches as the attack crew advances.

    I know this post sounds abit "Generic",it's because I will never fight a fire like this.



    [This message has been edited by FFE3BFD (edited December 27, 1999).]

  4. #4
    ChapCapt
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Is the roof made of concrete? Any potential for collapse from the weakening of the roof and the weight of the dirt?

  5. #5
    Ledbelly
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Wink

    Matt... ya got me. I give up! (I can do that cain't I? )

    If I can't ride out with Larry and/or FFE3BFD... I'm calling a bulldozer, banking a bunch of dirt into/in front of the living room and diggin' a pit somewhere between the intake and chimney. Wrap some goat meat in foil and wet burlap and bury it in the hole. Then I'm going to wait by the keg (about 6-8hrs) until my buddies Matt, Larry, FFE and Chap show up and we're having some cabrito.

    Note: might need to cut those trees and feed 'em down the intake if the fire slows down too much.

    [This message has been edited by Ledbelly (edited December 28, 1999).]

  6. #6
    Dalmation90
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Cool

    Good question ChapCapt...and the answer is I don't have a clue. But it is certainly something to talk about with the building inspector if you get these in you're district. The one's in my town are more dirt-sided on three sides, and have a standard residential roof line roughly flush with ground.

  7. #7
    Truckie from Missouri
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs up

    I'm with LedBelly!!!

    I'll be sure to "Special Call" the Beer Wagon from the local distributorship!!!

    ------------------
    Proud Member of IAFF Local 3133!

    Stay safe.

    Kenny

    ***DISCLAIMER***
    All postings I have &/or will post are strictly my opinions. I am representing only myself here, not the IAFF, Local 3133, or my employer. No animals were/will be harmed from the production of this disclaimer. Thank you.
    ***END OF DISCLAIMER***



  8. #8
    FF McDonald
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question

    Well...

    The concrete, and the surrounding earth are going to act as a heat sink, and there will probably be spalling from the concrete when the hoseline hits it with water. The fire is going to be a hot one with all of that heat and no where for it to go. Not sure about ventilation though. The air intake might have a baffle in it to prevent air flow from going out the intake. I would consider using smoke ejectors to pull more fresh air into the "building" coupled with an agressive attack on the seat of the fire.

    If the stucture is made of steel reinforced concrete then you may need to worry about the structural soundness of the building. As the fire heats the concrete, it is also heating the steel within the concrete. As that steel expands, it can cause the concrete on the exterior of it(the room side) to fall off, and possibly onto the firefighters.

    Aggresive attack!!!!!

    I hope I am somewhat right... or even close.....


    Marc

  9. #9
    FF McDonald
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs up

    As I look back over my original post, I see that you guys were looking more for tactics than what I provided. I'm still thinking---- I'll get back to you.....


    Marc

  10. #10
    Ledbelly
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Alright, a serious attempt...

    My first thoughts are with Chap and Mac... I'm wondering what kind of construction I'm(we're) looking at. And if FFs were to make an interior attack I would be real concerned about ingress/egress... I don't want to chase a rabbit down its' hole through a single entry point. (and I realize the pic is limited on the view/info) So depending on the amount of fire, number of exits and conditions inside... if everyone is out of house on arrival I'd be leaning to limiting the interior attack; at least not get too far inside. [From the layout, I'm not sure how effective a (/an unmanned) master stream would be or the effectiveness of flowing water down the intake/chimney... or both together, but that might be preferable] Seems like I have lost my aggressive spirit, but am really only leery of the situation.

    I agree that this is one "structure" where prior knowledge of construction features would be invaluable.(conversation w/bldg inspector... pre-fire plan, etc) Otherwise, I vote we have the BBQ cabrito millineum party and take a day off.

    Another great post to keep us flatland, no-basement-experience boys on our toes....

  11. #11
    ChapCapt
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    This one sort of scares me. It seems as if there is only one way in/out. I am going to assume (yeah I know that is stupid) that the roof is concrete since a "normal" roof would deteriorate rapidly buried in the ground. The fire grows in intensity, eventually flashes and the only place it can vent is through the door we are standing in. That would make for a really bad day and crispy goat.

    Any team that makes its way up the stairs and gets cut off is in deep trouble. Nobody will be able to get to them.

    The other problem is all the steam and gasses are going to come back in our faces. I doubt if the ventilation system (if still operable) will be able to make it tenable for an attack team.

    I think I would cautiously attempt an aggressive attack and at the first sign of things getting worse, back out and blast the heck out of it with a 2 1/2 as best you can from the doorway. Then if you make some headway try again.


  12. #12
    Boothby
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    PPV at the living room window, bust the cap off the air intake and WALA ventilation! Make your entry through the living room window and go put the fire out! Haples truckies my butt!

    ------------------
    Larry Boothby
    Firefighter/Paramedic
    Truck 3 A-shift
    Local 1784
    Memphis.

  13. #13
    Raptor557
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Wink

    =) I'm not even gonna try this one...

    Stay safe

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