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Thread: Quints

  1. #1
    phyrngn
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post Quints

    My unpaid gig is looking at getting a Quint. Now I don't really approve of the total quint concept for large cities, but I can see it as a versatile apparatus for smaller communities that may require the Quint's services every once in a while. My question: for a Volunteer Department with about 48 active members and 225 runs a year (20-30 Structure Fires), how do you implement the use of Quints? What equipment do you carry? What SOPs do you use?


  2. #2
    Truck 2
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Smile

    Sorry about the screw up, online service was running very slow!


    [This message has been edited by Truck 2 (edited January 25, 2000).]

  3. #3
    Truck 2
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Smile

    I get better with practice!
    Lt.Chuck
    Truck-2

    ------------------


    [This message has been edited by Truck 2 (edited January 25, 2000).]

  4. #4
    Truck 2
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Smile

    First of all do you have any buildings over three stories in height? If the answer to that question is no you might not really need a ladder truck! Ground ladders work very well on buildings of three stories or less. Trucks are a big lay out of money if you don't really need one, don't let the Better than Us Fire Dept. syndrome take hold of your dept. I work on a Quint, you are going to be called upon to do truck work and engine company work so you need all the tools that the individual companies would require on their indivdual pieces.You might even want to run this piece for vehicle accidents so you might think of carrying a hydraulic rescue tool also! The most inportant thing I can tell you is make sure you have enough people on the Quint to do the job at least 5 or 6, that is the biggest problem with career depts. The dept. I work for run our Quints with a driver and Officer most of the time,we get a third person some of the time and right now we have a fourth person since its a new year and vacations haven't kicked in yet. It still takes well trained firefighters to put out fires!

    Lt.Chuck
    Truck-2

    ------------------

  5. #5
    FyredUp
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    This may not be an implementation thing as much as a how it is built thing.

    Make sure the hose bed is easy to lay out with and easy to reload.

    The Quint that I work with lays out fairly nice but it takes 5 or 6 guys to reload. Seriously, 1 guy has to go up on top and be a tunnel rat in the chute and the actual hose bed, 1 guy pushes the hose up to him with a 6 foot modified pike pole, 1 guy holds the hose with a hook to stop the fold below from being pulled into the bed and 2 or 3 guys feed the hose.

    I agree with the fact that if you don't staff the rig with 5-7 people the quint multipurpose idea is a joke. How can a rig with 2 or 3 people do truck AND engine work?

  6. #6
    dwightpeck
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I am from a fairly large volunteer department (1900 calls/year), and we placed a quint in service in July '98. It is a 100' Pierce platform, and it runs as the main truck company for the whole county. We also run 3 engines, and the quint has ended up as the first in piece on countless calls. The versatility is great, but it has some inherent limitations. Aside from personally pumping a car fire with it (it only carries 250 gallons of water- talk about cutting it close)and getting caught in some tight subdivisions on medical calls, our quint has performed very well in its dual role as engine and truck. I agree with Truck 2 completely- staffing is the primary concern, along with operational understanding by the other companies responding with you. Many times the quint will arrive first on scene, and the next in companies from our department have to be prepared to assume truck company functions regardless of what piece they arrived on. It is not uncommon for the crew off the quint to assume the engine company tasks, and the next crew on the fireground (from our station) has to step up and operate from the quint as a truck company.
    Do you plan on having your quint run primarily as a truck company? Or do you plan on having it function as a big engine that just happens to have a aerial device if needed? In our case, the quint is designated as a truck, and it only runs as an engine when it has to. It has worked well for us, but the staffing question always comes up- what constitutes adequate staffing for a truck versus an engine? Personally, I cringe when the quint rolls as a truck company with fewer than 4 people on it, while we run engines out of the house with a minimum of 3 without much hesitation. I guess it all depends on your calls and your resources.
    One of the toughest obstacles we have had to overcome is the lack of awareness of a truck company's function on a fireground since it is the first one in the county. The truck company owns the address on a fireground, and that has been a constant problem with us when working outside our first due area. I can't stress enough that if the quint even has a possibility of being used as a truck company, it has to be able to get to the address- many times our quint has been stuck at the end of a street or driveway, far from its ideal position.
    I guess the best way of saying it is that a quint can provide many benefits if utilized properly. Believe me, it takes a lot of training, and more trial and error than we would like. Just some random thoughts here, hope this helps.
    Dwight

  7. #7
    dwightpeck
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I am from a fairly large volunteer department (1900 calls/year), and we placed a quint in service in July '98. It is a 100' Pierce platform, and it runs as the main truck company for the whole county. We also run 3 engines, and the quint has ended up as the first in piece on countless calls. The versatility is great, but it has some inherent limitations. Aside from personally pumping a car fire with it (it only carries 250 gallons of water- talk about cutting it close)and getting caught in some tight subdivisions on medical calls, our quint has performed very well in its dual role as engine and truck. I agree with Truck 2 completely- staffing is the primary concern, along with operational understanding by the other companies responding with you. Many times the quint will arrive first on scene, and the next in companies from our department have to be prepared to assume truck company functions regardless of what piece they arrived on. It is not uncommon for the crew off the quint to assume the engine company tasks, and the next crew on the fireground (from our station) has to step up and operate from the quint as a truck company.
    Do you plan on having your quint run primarily as a truck company? Or do you plan on having it function as a big engine that just happens to have a aerial device if needed? In our case, the quint is designated as a truck, and it only runs as an engine when it has to. It has worked well for us, but the staffing question always comes up- what constitutes adequate staffing for a truck versus an engine? Personally, I cringe when the quint rolls as a truck company with fewer than 4 people on it, while we run engines out of the house with a minimum of 3 without much hesitation. I guess it all depends on your calls and your resources.
    One of the toughest obstacles we have had to overcome is the lack of awareness of a truck company's function on a fireground since it is the first one in the county. The truck company owns the address on a fireground, and that has been a constant problem with us when working outside our first due area. I can't stress enough that if the quint even has a possibility of being used as a truck company, it has to be able to get to the address- many times our quint has been stuck at the end of a street or driveway, far from its ideal position.
    I guess the best way of saying it is that a quint can provide many benefits if utilized properly. Believe me, it takes a lot of training, and more trial and error than we would like. Just some random thoughts here, hope this helps.
    Dwight

  8. #8
    LHS
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    We run 100 or more calls a year than you. First out on all fires are quints. They work fine. We do truck and engine work simultaneously on all calls. SOme times two engines and two trucks worth. We staff accordingly. We can lay big hose at 25 mph and probably carry more on our quints than anyone on the planet. We reload the rig with the ladder down with just 4 guys. We don't need any pike poles to load hose. We reload the rig with the ladder down with They work fine in our city and rural environment. We carry 2000 gallons of water so water is rarely an issue. We didn't cut the ground ladder compliment and in fact carry twice the NFPA. We also run the quints as heavy rescues. Size hasn't been an issue.

  9. #9
    Romania
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    First I have to say that I am not a quint fan for big FDs or systems...ladders should be ladders and engines should be engines... except for squads . Now with that being said I thing quints are great ideas for small FDs or systems, if set-up and used properly.

    What do I mean by this? Well, glad you asked. In a small dept. you can set up a quint to be a all-in-one first out unit that can carry all the tools and manpower that you need for initial attack, rescue, etc. THe ideal aparatus for this idea would have a large crew cab (8 man with 5 pack seats), 1500gpm+ pump, 500 gal tank, class A & B foam (perferibly CAF for the A stuff) a 75' stick with a tip load of 500# min, full compliment of ground ladders, full set of truck tools, extrication gear including airbags, EMS equipment, three crosslays with 1-3/4" hose, 1000' of supply line, 300' of 2-1/2" (use you supply to set up horzt. standpipes, master streams, FDCs, etc), ladderpipe and deckgun, basic rope rescue equipment, and all that engine stuff too. You can support this with a couple pumpers, engines, or engine tenders, maybe a support truck or two, whatever you requirments are. THis rig should and could be first out with 5 or 6 FF on board, more if avalible, with other FF responding in other aparatus of to the scene.

    ------------------
    Alan Romania, CEP
    romania@uswest.net
    IAFF Local 3449

    My Opinions do not reflect the opnions of the IAFF or Local 3449.



  10. #10
    JimDWFD
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Talking

    The quint we use is a E-1 75ft with a 1500pump and 500 tank. It carries 115ft of ground ladders, ALS equipment, two 1 3/4" crosslays, 500' of 5" hose, and 750' of 2 1/2" hose. Manning varies from 2-5. Ambulance crew is part of crew. Our quint works as a truck company most of the time. It runs from our headquarter station and has it's own still district for auto,rubbish type fires. There has been times it has gotten on the scene of a fire first and the crew did fire attack and a later arriving crew did truck operations. I consider it a multi-purpose vehicle, we don't have enough people on it to do attack, vent, search, but it can get water on a fire when the engines are a few minutes behind.

    Stay Safe

  11. #11
    phyrngn
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs up

    I like the way you think, Romania!!!

  12. #12
    FiRsqDvr45
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Cool

    phyrngn,

    We run a "quint-type" unit in my department and I must throw another idea out concerning the notion made earlier that "if you have no buildings over 3 stories you may not need a ladder truck at all". True, however I believe that if you have a 2 story house (20-30 feet to the roof) and it is set back of the road way 30 feet that our 75 foot aerial will be easier to use to vent the roof and such then trying to raise a 24 or 28 foot extension ladder and manhandle a 12-20 foot rof ladder and the tools up after with limited man power.

    Truck 2 is dead on however in the fact that if you run a quint and staff it with 3 or 4 people you need to decide when you pull up which role it is going to play cuz you can't do both unless you have the luxury of a huge cab and 8-10 people on board. Staff it and its a battle ship.

    The neat thing about our unit is that most of the controls for the aerial and pump are all mounted together at the pump panel so that one person can run both, the only tough part is the outrigger controls are still at the rear. This may be something to think about when specing a unit.

    Other features we have is a seperate LDH intake that is direct to the prepiped laddergun so that one unit can feed it and we can then use the full 1500gpm pump on portable guns, supplying our 1000 feet of 4 inch or handlines.

    Truck 2 had another great point about possibly having some sort of hydraulic tool on board so this truck can be your first out do whatever unit, a foam system would be handy also( we carry 3 cans of AFFF and an inline eductor).

    We have managed to carry almost all NFPA required equipment for both pumpers and quints being just shy of the ground ladders amount. As it backs up our rescue pumper on high angle/below grade rescues it has a set of rope gear and EMS stuff stashed aboard.This gear and the 350gH2O tank has definitely been a stress on its single rear axle so be sure to consider a dual axle rear end as a possibility.

    Please write if there is anything else I can add or help with as I am a wee tired and not 100% objective at the moment.

    my email is FIRSQDVR45@aol.com




    ------------------
    FF/EMT Jay Ellingson
    Newington,NH FD &
    Water Country EMS
    Be Safe!

    I merely have the privilege of working for the listed agencies and my views are my own and in no way represent either fine agency in any way.



  13. #13
    LHS
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    class A & B foam (perferibly CAF for the A stuff)

    We've had great success with CAFs on flammable liquids fires. Recently we took on a 3000 gallon fully involved fuel tanker in town and put it out with tank water.

  14. #14
    P.P.
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    LHS,

    What size Quint does your department have. You say that you have 2000 gallons so water is rarely an issue. What is the weight of your unit. I know we would not be able to put that much water on a Quint around here. Just wondering?

    P.P.

  15. #15
    LHS
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    See for your self:
    http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Trails/6658/

    They weight 68,000 pounds.

    Why couldn't you put that kinda weight on a quint in your area?

  16. #16
    Truck30
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    The use of a quint particularly in the Volunteer service requires adherence to two things.

    1)Training: Not only for the two duties of engine and truck work, but for the use of the rig itself.

    2)Discipline: Not punitive discipline, but discipline in commitment to duties.
    If the rig is first in and is to be used as an Engine, the crew must be utilized as only an Engine Crew.
    If the rig is assigned the duties of a Truck Co., then the crew must be only concentrating on truck work.

    The inherent problem with a quint is the temptation for the crew to try to be all things to all people.

    The limitation is not with the rig itself.
    2nd & 3rd due companies can certainly pull lines or ladders or tools of the rig.

    The limitation is with the use of the crew.

    Engine Co. work or Truck Co. work. one must be chosen initially and followed through with. If the tactics fail to do this both jobs will only get half done.

    Check St. Louis FD. They run almost all quints and seem to have success with their operation.

  17. #17
    FyredUp
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    HEY P.P.,

    Winfield still running a mess of Mack CF's?

    My Dad was on that department back in the 60's and 70's when the Macks were King. And rightfully so.

    Take care and stay safe,

    Don

  18. #18
    P.P.
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    LHS,

    We have a lot of places in our district that a unit of that size and weight would not work. We have a bridge that we can barely put an engine across.

    FyredUp,

    We only have two Mack's left. Both run out of station #2. We are writing specs for a new engine soon, so then we will be down to one mack. They have served us well. As far as your Dad being on years ago, I think we only have one firefighter left from that time. Larry A. has 37 years on the dept.

    Stay Safe!

    P.P.


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