We currently swithched our pre-connects and skid loads to the triple-layer hose load(see IFSTA)It has not worked well at all.Prior to this, alot of companies loaded attack lines the way that best suited thier territory, or a standard flat lay with a few loops.My company used a modified version of the Minute-man, and loved it.I have been sending letters through the chain, trying to get rid of the triple layer load.
What are you using for your attack loads.We use 1 3/4 hand lines.
Thanks for the input.
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Thread: Hose loads ???
09-22-2000, 02:19 PM #1Lt.ToddFirehouse.com Guest
Hose loads ???
09-22-2000, 03:11 PM #2NCFiremedicFirehouse.com Guest
My current dept. uses triple lay. No problems yet but it was a change for me. I came from a dept that swore by the minute man. There both good loads, just need to pull them to learn'em.
09-22-2000, 11:53 PM #3FFCode3EMTFirehouse.com Guest
My department experimented with a triple load. We experienced problems with them and after a week we went back to a flat lay.
**The preceding comments in no way represent the views of my department, its members, or associations that it may belong to.**
09-23-2000, 04:46 PM #4fc80chiefFirehouse.com Guest
We use a modified flat lay in the crosslays.
Basically every 2 layers is an exposed loop, and as you go up the bed the loops get longer. It works well for us because it is a simple load to stretch and load.
09-23-2000, 07:07 PM #5Jolly RogerFirehouse.com Guest
we use the triple load also. It works well for us, but most of our district is suburban setbacks, so it's easy to pull. In urban settings this may not be the load of choice. It is my humble opinion that each company should load it however it works best for them.
Let's not let the honor, tradition, and pride of the fire service erode away.
[This message has been edited by Jolly Roger (edited September 23, 2000).]
09-23-2000, 08:58 PM #6FD111Firehouse.com Guest
We use the triple load and it has worked well for us. What type of problems have you guys had or are having with the triple load??
How long are the lays you are using?
We use 200' on all of our crosslays, we walk away from the truck about 60' to 70' and the load is on the ground and can be charged as you walk.
I would like to hear about the problems that were encountered..
09-23-2000, 09:03 PM #7FyredUpFirehouse.com Guest
We use both the Minute Man and a flat load with the top 100 feet bundled. The Difference is brought on by hose bed configuration. They work fine as they can be advanced by one FF and even around corners.
The triple fold is weak in the area of advancing in other than a relatively straight line. If corners are encountered, because you are dragging all of the hose, binding occurs without a second and sometimes third person helping advance the line.
I am not at all saying that we attack fire with one FF on the line, but being able to advance the dry line with one FF frees the second to bring forcible entry tools or whatever else may be needed.
But like everything else in this business...If it works for you, GREAT!! If not....work to change it!!
This is my opinion, yours may differ. That's okay. Have a nice day!!
09-24-2000, 10:52 PM #8LooperFirehouse.com Guest
We use triples also, with both 1.75" and 2", and lengths of 200'-250'. Our engines each have 2 lines in crosslays, and 2 more coming off the back. The trick to sucessfully deploying them is to come straight off the truck, until you get all of it off. Pick up the nozzle, walk to the door and charge the line then. For us, its easier to chase the kinks out when its all on the ground, than when you have a flat lay and the excess hose gets charged into a big pile.
That said, I should note that a majority of our structure calls are in large apartment complexes where we have the room to stretch the hose properly.
One other thing...flat lays are much easier load back onto the truck.
09-27-2000, 03:16 PM #9sarge552Firehouse.com Guest
We use several different loads. On E5 we have 3 crosslays which are minuteman loads and a leader line off the back ( 2 1/2" to gated wye to 2 1 3/4" attack lines ). On E535 we have preconnected reverse horseshoe and a sidelay that is a combo of a flat/according lay that is in a long bundle style load.
"Stay Safe, Stay Low and lets Rock-n-Roll"
11-11-2000, 03:14 PM #10britterFirehouse.com Guest
"Flaking Out" has pretty much been done away with the triple load. We used a modified flat load for years, and it took that many years to convince everyone that the triple load was actually easier. The only argument was that it was slower to reload. Simply put, it just takes practice. It's like any other change in the fire service.
The triple load works well for us because many of our structures sit approx. 30-40 feet off the road. I could see where if you only had 10' or so this would not be the desired load.
One thing is for sure, it deploys very quickly and can be charged just as quickly.
11-11-2000, 08:36 PM #11Aerial 131Firehouse.com Guest
In both of my departments Career and volunteer we are using for crosslays with a flake dump load of 50' and on top of that 100' fit of flaked shoulder load. Works great and never messes up.
11-11-2000, 11:11 PM #12JohnMFirehouse.com Guest
I did not care for the triple load when we changed from a skid load several years ago. However, once I saw how much quicker we could get water on the fire, I learned to love it. One thing that really helps is that if your engine is equipped with a rear pre connect, pull past the building, and it is usually an easy stretch to the door. Yes it takes a little longer to rack, but I'm not in a hurry at that point. Also if somebody runs off with the nozzle only, and not the loop AND nozzle, it is really messed up. There are far fewer spots for kinks, and the line is mostly rolled, not folded. And once water hits the line, most kinks unfold with the water pressure. It forces you to lay the line out,rather than dumping a spagetti factory on the ground.(And of course this is when the operator charges the line!) We had a contest. 200' triple fold vs 150' skid load. The triple load 1 guy, the skid load 2 guys. The triple load won. Don't know if this has any bearing on your situation, but I hope you can do what suits you best.
11-11-2000, 11:11 PM #13F52 WestsideFirehouse.com Guest
Our Dept. uses the modified minuteman for our crosslays. We like it. Our new Ladder, however came with wider crosslay beds and it has been a P-I-A with it.
Eddie C. - a.k.a - PTFD21
"Doin' it for lives n' property"
11-12-2000, 12:18 AM #14ME93Firehouse.com Guest
We use triple crosslays also. They work great for our department. We have never had a major problem with them. Just one thing if you put your hose thru the nozzle handle make sure you get it out before the line gets charged. Trust me it is no fun at all trying to get it out after that. Flat lays give you more of a problem with kinks in the line. That leads to low pressure in the line.
12-20-2000, 07:26 PM #15Mike PirieFirehouse.com Guest
Our preconnects are all minuteman loads. Personally I dont think it matters how its loaded just as long as it is consistant throughout the department and practised in order to avoid confusion. Our attack lines are preconnnected 45mm and 65mm lines.
12-22-2000, 09:49 AM #16fireman_387Firehouse.com Guest
I too would have to be for the minute man load. Initially we used a double loob flat load (shoulder through the top loop, hand in the lower). Now with the adapted minute man load we go off either side, hose feeds out and the nozzle is left where it needs to be, at the end with the nozzleman
12-22-2000, 11:50 PM #17Company40Firehouse.com Guest
We use the minuteman load. It works great. The 1 3/4 preconnects are 150' and the 2 1/2 preconnects are 200'. Both hoses have a 100' carried on the shoulder with the remainder in the hosebed.
01-01-2001, 08:49 PM #18John_FordFirehouse.com Guest
I have used the minuteman, flat, reverse Horseshoe, and accordian. I have only used the triple on training. The ones described work in any situation. The feature of the triple is that you can pull the whole load from the bed and it lays out. The problem I see with it is when you are dealing with a tight street or vertical stretch. Its great if all you have are residential and a clear yard to pull to but when you have a 10' setback and 5 floors to pull the previous loads are much more adaptable.
The final word is this. What are you comfortable with and what is your district. If it works for you, Great. If you are having trouble then try different types and see which one works the best. This only applies when you are using preconnects. Bulk beds are a whole other story.
01-15-2001, 08:57 AM #19jab1415Firehouse.com Guest
Our department has used the triple lay hose load on 1 3/4 hose in 200' lengths for years with little problem. The only problem that arises is when someone say inexperienced, from another department or just in too big of a hurry pulls the nozzle without getting the first fold of hose. To remedy this, we've begun tucking the first fold of hose in the bale of the nozzle, so when you grab the nozzle, the first section of hose comes with it. Otherwise it lays out in perfect form with few tangles and no pile of hose at the side of the truck.
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