1. #1
    Truckie5553
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Exclamation Use of PASS devices!

    Ok here is a question that i think we all owe to ourselves to answer truthfully. Do we all use our PASS devices when they are supposed to be?

    Looking forward to your responses!!

    ------------------
    Captain James Collier
    McMahan Fire Rescue
    KCTCS Area 6 Instructor

  2. #2
    LHS*
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    All our systems turn themselves on automatically, even the IC can see our status when we are deep inside a structure.

  3. #3
    570eck
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    We've recently purchased the new scotts with intergrated pass so they come on when you turn on the bottle. So we are on it now but there have been times when it was forgotten. I guess knowing than what I know now might have made a difference.

  4. #4
    steveo
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    same here, ours turn on automatically. Otherwise No we used to rarely use them. -steve

  5. #5
    bfd1071
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    The problem with the Intragated PASS, What happens when you remove your SCBA? You no longer have the pass device.

    ------------------
    ** The opionions are mine and mine alone, they are not that of my dept or the local**

  6. #6
    Truckie5553
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    We have both at my department at the current time. We are slowly moving over to the new scott with the pass built in, but bfd's comment is something i feel as well, if you loose the pack, your pass is gone! I still feel more comfortable with my personal pass.

    ------------------
    Captain James Collier
    McMahan Fire Rescue
    KCTCS Area 6 Instructor

  7. #7
    LHS*
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    //The problem with the Intragated PASS, What happens when you remove your SCBA? You no longer have the pass device.

    We have a auto on radio transmitting PASS on each set of turnouts. Plus on the SCBA.

  8. #8
    d308
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    We just ordered the scotts with the intergrated pass. I do not see why there is a problem with this because if we are in a dagerous area we have the pack. if we need the pass our idea is put the pack on our vise-versa any just my opinion

  9. #9
    bfd1071
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    LHS...Is what you have a 2 part PASS device? So even when you take off the Harness you still have a PAss Device?

    d308...When the Vendome came down the fire was out, they where finishing the overhaul. No fire. We all know that Overhauling with out the mask is a lot easier then with it.

    ------------------
    ** The opionions are mine and mine alone, they are not that of my dept or the local**

  10. #10
    LHS*
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Yes BFD, one on the scba and one on the turnouts.

  11. #11
    ONTFF
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    we use the slime green SUPER PASS, its "key" is hooked to the truck so it automatically comes on when you pull the SCBA out of its spot, the pass can also be clipped on elsewhere if need be (usually clipped on the SCBA shoulder strap

  12. #12
    GBordas
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I think that the integrated PASS alarm in the SCBA is a bad idea.

    You used to be able to turn the things on or off manually. Now it's on all the time. When you're outside you hear the things going off all the time. Firemen are becoming so used to hearing them that they eventually just ignore them. Before, if you heard one go off everyone looked to see where it was coming from. Plus, as BFD1071 said, and I agree, you're not always wearing your mask on the fireground.

  13. #13
    cfr3504
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    We've got several of the Super PASS one's like ONTFF was talking about, so when we take them off the truck the PASS is on. Some packs still have the old orange PAL III devices, they work good still, but I have to admit that more than once, I've forgotten to turn it on. Gbordas also has a valid point, when you are suiting up and going in the superPASS is great because you can't forget to turn it on, but when you've come out of the building and the pack is taken off, it's a pain to have them going off all the time. We do have several extra keys that are in our "staging bag" and when you take the pack off or are going thru rehab, you can put one of them on it, to shut it up! This is a partial solution to the problem. But you just have to remember to take the key back off when you go back or put the SCBA back on the truck.

  14. #14
    Plug Ugly
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs down

    Don't know of anyone in my department turning on their PASS device unless it's integrated. Even then it seems like nobody pays much attention when they go off. Everyone thinks they are just a big pain. I also carry a whistle in my coat. I just hope I can remove my mask long enough to blow it if I have to. I hope if the guys hear a whistle blowing they will realize it is not blowing by itself and will come and get me. With a sounding PASS, they'll probably just think someone dropped one. Does anyone else carry a whistle?

  15. #15
    Truckie5553
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Red face

    Plug,

    Why in the world if you get in trouble and need help would you even think about taking your mask off. That is the last thing to do. Also what if you are knocked unconscious. You arent going to be able to get to the whistle. I hope that you are still using a PASS as well.

    We need to quit looking for excuses for reasons to stop using the PASS and start finding ways to make firefighters to pay attention to it. This is just another example of being afraid of change. These things work, that is if we give it a chance to.

    ------------------
    Captain James Collier
    McMahan Fire Rescue
    KCTCS Area 6 Instructor

  16. #16
    Plug-Ugly
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Wink

    Hey Truckie, I'm not saying what I think we should be doing. I'm saying what we are in reality doing. I support PASS use 100% but I am just adding another tool to my arsenal. Yes, I also use my PASS in addition to the whistle. Mine is integrated in my SCBA. You say the last thing to do when you get in trouble is to take off your mask. I agree with that if there is a respiratory danger. Getting into trouble does not always mean being trapped in a smoke filled environment. You could very easily be trapped in a collapse and have no need for SCBA if the air was clear. And what do you do when you run out of air? Do you do those emergency breathing procedures we've all heard about like removing your regulator and pulling your hood up over the hole, or covering the opening with a gloved hand, or putting the breathing tube into your coat? Yeah right. They all sound good but the first thing to go when we are out of air is the mask. It's just human nature. I wonder how many FFs actually die with their mask on like is taught in SCBA emergency classes. I bet not many. So the use of a whistle, radio, or any other means to communicate in addition to PASS is what I advocate.

    Not afraid of change, just trying to look at things the way they really are. For a good drill go to a large open structure like a school, warehouse, bowling alley, etc. and have someone hide a sounding PASS. See how long it takes to zero in on the sound and actually find it.

    For the record Truckie, I agree with what you say, I'm just playing devil's advocate here to stir some other ideas.


  17. #17
    mtperry
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Wink

    Truckie hit the nail on the head! The device is desinged to serv a very valuable purpose and their needs to be byoff by the fire fighters that there is a reason to wear it, turn it on, reset it when needed and pay attention to it when on goes off. It needs to be ingrianed in everyones head and used in all traing exercises. It can be done. In our area we do a lot of mutual aid fires and training. There will be 20 fire fighters standing around and one PASS will sound and every single person will shake or jiggle or jump to reset theirs and not even think about it. We have accepted the device and hopefully we will never have to use it for it's intended purpose but if it happens it will work.
    Just my experience.

  18. #18
    BFD847
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    We also have intergrated PASS devices on our new MSA packs. They seem to be OK. They are easy to reset and have various levels of alert to help reduce the deaf ear affect from so much noise. I also belive if you do indeed have an incident were there is problems you will not just tune out the PASS device. With our old PASS devices they were very seldom turned on. I do agree it is a problem that you only have a PASS on when you are wearing an SCBA. Maybe we should make PASS devices intergrated in our bunkers or helmets.

  19. #19
    resqb
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Arrow

    I turn it on when we first arrive at the scene, but after a few false alarms the PASS gets shut off. The system we use is attached to the SCBA belt, but not integrated. I've been doing searches for extension crawling over furniture and other crap and the thing is still going off. It's even gone off while I've been inverted. What the fire service needs (still) is a pass that bounces around until you are at a complete stop for a while. Maybe multiple passes attached to our TOG on feet hands and head.
    Hey LHS: What's it like to have a dept that has that much money to be able to get you all this equipment?

  20. #20
    LHS*
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    //Hey LHS: What's it like to have a dept that has that much money to be able to get you all this equipment?

    Hey, I'm sure we spend less per capita than you, return more money and cover a much larger area! Want to compare. Our budget $310,000. Population 28,000 or $11.07 per person. Area 5000 square miles. ISO rating Class 1 in town and Class 3 in the rural areas.

    Your turn!

  21. #21
    ALSfirefighter
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    We also have integrated PASS alarms, or like some of the others said, they would rarely get used. One of the problems I have seen is that there are many depts. who are relying on just PASS devices as a means of protection for their firefighters, reducing the amount of portable radios for personnel to carry on the fireground. To me the PASS alarm is one piece of safety equipment. Just like a car with seat belts we now have airbags.

    ===========================================
    The above is my opinion only and doesn't reflect that of any dept/agency I work for, deal with, or am a member of.

  22. #22
    ALSfirefighter
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Larry,

    Not to get nasty..(read that again), I'm only asking you a question, not putting you on the stand.

    How much of your Capita goes to staffing?


  23. #23
    LHS*
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    One half goes to the Fire Marshal and Mechanic

  24. #24
    Engine69
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    The integral PASS systems that activate when you leave the apparatus are a great training tool! Around here, the firefighters eventually take their packs off and leave them. Of course this results in the PASS activating which give us all a chance to go running to turn the thing off. All we need is some cheese and they could do a psycology experiment on us like they do with mice and bells!

  25. #25
    eyecue
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    GBORDAS,
    Who is going to stand around and let the pass go to full alarm? When they pre alarm you just slap them or while you are standing or waiting just rock from side to side every so often. Your thoughts about them alarming and loss of attention to the sound doesnt make sense.

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