1. #1
    Plug-Ugly
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question Do you pull a line?

    Food for thought:
    You pull up to a 2 story wood frame with heavy smoke showing from every possible opening and the eaves. You see no visible fire or even a glow.
    Do you pull a hoseline and drag it around with you while searching for the fire?
    Do you pull a line and leave it somewhere in the building?
    Do you search for the fire without a hoseline and use a hauling line to pull up the hose through a window or upper story porch?
    Does one crew search for fire and then radio its location to another crew who then brings in a line?
    Are these hoselines charged or not?
    What size lines do you bring?

  2. #2
    m. rose
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    1.75" line charged and ready while doing a primary search as well. RIT team in place and truck ops starting up. Remember keep safe!

  3. #3
    BFD847
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Well with this topic for my department comes to man power again. Comes down to the IC and his decision. Some of our crews have started sending first team of two in with TIC for location of fire and pri search. Radioing back to send second crew of 3 with 1 3/4 waiting at front entrance to the seat of the fire. This leave IC and pump operator outside. This does not always work due to staffing levels or ambulance calls. Only 7 people per shift. Remaining man power is delayed slightly with call back and mutual aide. My personal feeling is if I can not have a hose line at least waiting at the entrance I will just take it with me. Can never be to safe.

  4. #4
    Firelover
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Exclamation

    I say pull the line in with you! One reason comes to mind. What do you do when all hell breaks loose and the fire starts devouring the whole house? Do you really want to be stuck in the middle of that? I know that I don't!



    ------------------
    Joel

    If you sent us to HELL, WE'D PUT IT OUT!!

    **And of course these are only my opinion and only mine. Don't take it out on anyone else but me.**

  5. #5
    FRED
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Arrow

    I would have the Engine Co. Stretch dry to the top of the stairs once it is determined that the fire isn't in the basement of a balloon-frame house.

    I would have the Truck search for the point of origin and/or best access to it. If they can't find it in a timely fassion I would have them pull the celing in an accessable area(hallway) and use an attic ladder to assist the Engine Co. in reaching the fire.

    If I were the Engine officer I wouldn't have the line charged until I was sure of either the fires location or the point of access for us...(conditions permitting of course)

    Two cents from fireman.

  6. #6
    ALSfirefighter
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    One sentence...It's better to have and not need, then need and not have.

    --------------------------------------------
    The above is my opinion only and doesn't reflect that of any dept./agency I work for, deal with, or am a member of.

  7. #7
    Chiefkeo
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I have to go with the better safe than sorry approach. Take the handline with you. Make sure you have good radio communications and advance the line dry if you are advancing to the second story. If you have to go after the basement never go down those stairs without a charged line in your hands.

    ------------------
    I shall fear no evil, for I am a Firefighter

  8. #8
    86Rescuetech
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    We carry 2" hose as our primary attack line. It is a bitch to carry around charged and getting around corners, that sucks. With that being said, I will never go into a structure again without a charged line. Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice shame on you. I got caught in a bad spot once without a charge line and we had to bail pretty quick out a window. This was a long time ago but you learn. It is better to be tired than dead! The key is a door or corner man. Two guys can effectively manuver a 2" line with a good doorman. Be safe.

  9. #9
    eCappy
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Pull the line - you can always follow it out if things go bad.

  10. #10
    FireLt1951
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    Where there's smoke, there's fire. If you're going to stretch, charge the line. You've got nothing to lose and a lot to gain. If you've got heavy smoke and no visible fire or as you say not even a glow. You do have a possible backdraft or flashover situation on your hands. Ventilate (preferably a window, allows for better ventilation after the fire is located) away from your entry point and the fire will show itself. Once the fire shows, ventilate that area nearest the fire, using vertical, horizontal or other ventlation procedures of your choosing.

    Here we always stretch 2- 1 1/2" lines at two possible entry points. Once the fire is located both lines are taken in through the same entry point. Just before entry, ventilation points are chosen. Entry and ventilation are done at the same time through your size up decisions.

    [ 07-16-2001: Message edited by: FireLt1951 ]

  11. #11
    Dalmatian90
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I'd say with heavy smoke, take the line in.

    Doesn't mean the line has to go everywhere with you...

    For instance, after you've cleared the first floor and basement, maybe the line goes to the hall at the top of the stairs and two guys stay on the line while two guys check the rooms. They'll only be maybe 10 or 15' away so you they can call back, "Get the line over here!"

  12. #12
    Smokeetr4
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Exclamation

    In this scenario, heavy smoke showing and no visible fire, Initial vertical ventilation is paramount!!. Once vented the structure will receive enough oxygen to generate flame. taking the roof in coordination with an aggressive attack will usually punch the red devils ticket. There are a lot of unforeseen variables since this is just a scenario though .
    Stay safe.

  13. #13
    Mr.Meaner
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Wink

    Pull it! If you don't you will wish you had.

  14. #14
    steveo
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Pull the line, leave un charged with radio communications, and Thermal imaging camera. Most of the time the camera will show where the fire is. Rather have it and not need it then not have it and need it. That much smoke there has to be something going on in there. Be safe........

  15. #15
    sarge552
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Smoke showing from all over the place-no fire, hmmm? Charged 1 3/4" hoseline at least off the first in Engine. If the situation warrents go larger, but charged for sure! Have vent team ready and in place. When I first started in this job I was taught that you never go into a burning structure without a CHARGED HOSELINE and a TOOL. Now these days I teach the same to my personnel. God help us if anyone should get caught in a bad situation without them! Just remember to take a breath and think about what you are doing and what the fire is doing and above all stay safe!


    ------------------
    "Stay Safe, Stay Low and lets Rock-n-Roll"

  16. #16
    TheChronic
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Wink

    The BEST two or three minutes of a fire is when you're knocking the snot out of it, so you better drag the line in - or else someone else will have YOUR fun.

  17. #17
    Staylow
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    This is by no means rocket science, but our "bread and butter". Right?. Pull the line and advance it into the building, but keep it dry till you find the general location of the fire. I would pull the 1 3/4 because this is only a 2 story type 5. A couple of 1 3/4 lines would knock the snot out of a building this size. Interior operations with any line larger would be difficult for me to understand. But, follow your SOP's, whatever those might be. Just find the seat of the fire, whatever floor it might be on, and then chase down the extension.

    The truck, or another crew, should be opening the roof for ventilation at about the same time to take care of the ventilation and help with the conditions. Get a company to the top floor ASAP to open the attic cuz it is most probably in there.

    If you are in a rural area with manpower difficulties then things will have to be done differently. You can only do what you can based on the resources you are provided and the time of your responce.


    Stay Safe!

  18. #18
    CHEW33
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Arrow

    With the above description given, I would definately want a hoseline stretched with teams entering building. Even if the line is dry, you still have it with you, and are only seconds from having the water. You may need to effect a rescue, do searchs , or encounter heavy fire quickly. The line could be kept at the landing of the stairs inside the door, or anywhere the officer may seem fit, so that the line can be stretched in an easy manner to the most affected parts of the bldg. I would have the nozzleman and backup on radio contact with other members in the building, waiting orders of the exact fire location. I would also consider the possibility of ballon frame construction, and having the line ready to go inside the bldg may allow you to cut off the fire before it takes complete control of the entire bldg. I understand that staffing is an issue with many depts., incuding where im from,but you know you have a good job here and not bringing a line in with you may prove to be a safety mistake in the long run.

  19. #19
    sgfd
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Wink

    What about taking some windows out????

  20. #20
    oz10engine
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    First in crew bring a charged 1-1/2" in with them and keep it with them always.

  21. #21
    Lt.Houck
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    A charged 1 3/4" line must be stretched. If you have heavy smoke as soon as you enter the door that line needs to be charged. If there is no smoke on the first floor then you stretch in dry.

    One by opening the front door and entering you have created a ventilation point, any fire that may be on the first floor or in the basement is going to start moving that way. If you don't have that line ready to go and the fire starts to overrun you or flash your not going to make it back.

    Roof ventilation is a real good game plan.

    Remeber the DC ff's that were killed in that flashover 2 years ago. They were on the first floor with no fire just smoke and heat. When the basement flashed over and the fire raised up the stairs it overtook the hose team on the first floor. One of the ff's that survived was able to keep the first floor from flashing long enough to get out. Had he not had a charged line in place he would likely have been killed also. Read the NIOSH report its excellent. http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/face9921.html

    remember keep it safe.

    ------------------
    The opinions posted in these forums are my own, and do not represent my department.

    [This message has been edited by Lt.Houck (edited 06-22-2001).]

  22. #22
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Hancock, Maine, USA
    Posts
    24

    Post

    Well here is one thought. You have limited manpower, untill your mutuial aide gets rolling. You have a building with smoke, but no fire showing. The fire is probally seated in the bowels of the building, and getting to it is going to take some time. Now you have a first entry team, and backup, better take the line in. If your entry crew doesn't have that line, and they get into trouble.... you just lost an entry team. So they take the line...do the primary, and hope mutial aide gets ther quick.
    Lead, Follow, or Get out of the Way!

  23. #23
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Pacific Northwest, WA, USA
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    Default

    Plug-Ugly, here's what I would do. Stretch and charge a 2-1/2 line to the front door (hose team standing off to one side, forcible entry team to the other). Vent the roof, if possible. It's a wood frame structure, roof venting may not be possible. If not, vent the top floor. Once vented, and depending on the reaction of the structure, force the front door and commence both search and engine ops. If the whole building lights up when vented however, commence defensive ops.

  24. #24
    Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    South Central, PA, USA
    Posts
    84

    Default

    With heavy smoke showing from EVERY opening, I would say definately pull a line, advance it to the door way or other appropriate area and start your search for the seat of the fire.

    Better to have it pulled and not need it then to get caught with your pants down !!
    These views/ opinions are my own and not those of my employer/ department.

  25. #25
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Canton, Ga
    Posts
    23

    Default

    With in our Departments SOP's the first engine on scene is to drop two 1-3/4 cross lays to the entery point. we are to leave one at the door and take one with us on the primary search(both lines are charged at this point). We can't always do this due to we are in a rural area and can't always get the truck close enough to the structure so we have set up skid load consisting of 400 feet of 3" and two 1-3/4 300"feet long conected by a wye. This way you can have a line for the attack and one ready for the RIT Team all at the same time.

    Remember to keep it safe. You can't save someone if you can't save yourself.
    George Phillips FF318
    Hickory Flat Volunteer Fire Dept.
    Cherokee County
    Company 3

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