Need some help, 4-man engine/truck co's. How do you do it?

[FFMIKED]

Could really use some help from some people in the know. I am evaluating the benefit of going to a four man engine company, to be presented to the higher ups. I am in need of some SOG's, specific assingments for crew members, safety statistics.... etc. Whatever you guys may know of. I understand that FDNY, Chicago, Detroit, Boston, are very specific in their delegations, does anyone know much about them? What do smaller Departments do? Would really appreciate any help that you might be able to give, or roads that you might lead me down.


Yours in the brotherhood

[LTMike463]

Our department runs with four people on every apparatus. We respond three pumps, one ladder, one squad and two DC's on every full response. Our department is about 300 strong with 14 stations.
We do not have set assignments for crews or seating positions. The pumps work in three man crews (the driver stays with the rig), the ladder and squad carry two HT's and may be broken into two crews if needed. The squad is almost always split up. One crew catches utilities and the other is assigned some task, i.e. back-up, search or RIT. The ladder trucks (only 3 in the city)are usually kept together as a crew of four. The most work they do usually is carry the PPV fan to the front door, vent the roof if needed or take the RIT. The first in pump crew of course advances the first line in. Either the second or third pump will catch the plug and then they are assigned a task depending on what needs done.
We have nothing in SOP's as far as rig assignments are concerned. It is up to the IC at that time. Hope this is helpful in some way.

[Double_Local]

Washington, DC Fire Department

Four Man engines:
Wagon Driver: Drives, hooks up supply line, helps flake line, charges line, might pull second line to door, might throw ground ladder
Officer: Sizes up, may force entry, may pull drag section, may carry highrise rack (100')
Lineman (sits behind officer): Pulls attack line, or carries rack for highrise.
Layout man: Lays out and connects humat to hydrant if first or second due. May carry rack (100') to extend line, or may pull second line.

Our SOPs get four engines on the first (box) alarm...first goes to front, second to rear, third pumps first, fourth pumps second.

Our wagons are 1250/500 for the most part with 2 crosslays (150-200'), one long line (350-400'), and one big line 2.5" (150-250').
All attack lines are 1 1/2" with a 125gpm constant volume fog nozzle.

Supply lines are 600' 3" with humat and 600' 4".

[FireCapt1951retired]

I did a research paper about 3 years ago on the 3-4-5 man ride. The information I obtained was from Johns-Hopkins University, Dallas Fire Dept and the IAFF. There were more but I can't remember right now.

These in depth studies showed that when you go from 3 to 4 on an apparatus, your injury and death rates drop dramatically ( approx 40-50 %), effectively saving any department money and personnel.

From 4-5 they stay about the same and when you go to 6 the problem of accountability rose.

I would have to search for my papers but this was the outcome from these studies. If I find it I'd be happy to e-mail you the research or you can contact the Universities and Fire Departments that were part of the research project.

[ 07-01-2001: Message edited by: FireLt1951 ]

[ 07-01-2001: Message edited by: FireLt1951 ]

[Double_Local]

The dallas studies were several years ago (early 80's), I'd like to see someone redo them...

[csy113]

YOU GUYS SURE ARE LUCKY TO HAVE FOUR OR FIVE FF TO A ENGINE OR LADDER COMPANY. MY CITY RUNS A PUBLIC SAFETY OFFICER PROGRAM WHERE THE POLICE OFFICERS ARE ALSO TRAINED AND RESPOND AS FIREFIGHTERS.

WE HAVE A ENGINEER AND 1FF PER ENGINE AND LADDER COMPANY. WE THEN RESPOND 1 "PSO" PER COMPANY ON ALL STRUCTURE FIRES.

SO IN SENCE WE USE 3 MAN COMPANYS