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  1. #1
    CDF
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    Default Current photo story 8-10-01

    The current photo story shows a 2 alarm fire in a 1-1/2 story single family dwelling. The tactics shown seem questionable.


  2. #2
    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
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    Don't know, wasn't there...

    Looks to me like:
    1) The pics aren't in exact sequence
    2) An interior attack was initiated with a very small crew:
    <IMG SRC="/hotshots/slideshow/2001/0809_ma/photo12.jpg" width="300" height="225" BORDER="0" ALT="image">
    Note -- light smoke in color & moderate in quantity, so it's early on. One line in the door, one FF visible inside, one FF outside.

    3) This pic makes me suspicious the fire had been in the partitions/voids for a while:
    [img]<IMG SRC="/hotshots/slideshow/2001/0809_ma/photo14.jpg" width="300" height="225" BORDER="0" ALT="image">[/img]
    Since you have fire coming out low on the roof.

    4) I'm not sure I can count more than 12 individual firefighters...so a "2 alarm" up there may be very light...

    5) Don't have time-stamps, so don't know if the exterior handlines and stuff were only operated for a few minutes, or an extended time...

    Overall, my guess is a small crew encountered a lot of partition fire, and backed out. By the time the had the equipment & manpower to vertical vent, they had even more fire to be knocked down. So they knocked it down from the outside before sending their small crew inside...

    So it might not be as bad as it seem But I can see where individual photos make someone go, huh? That was my reaction till I looked through a couple times.

    [ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: Dalmatian90 ]
    IACOJ Canine Officer
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  3. #3
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    First I would like to say no offense to the fire depts at the scene my comments are only based to the pics so I don't know exactly what happened.
    But to use the pics as training I would agree with the above post that the fire was probably in the walls or ceiling. It also seeems from the pics that by fighting the fire from the out side the hose streams were probably not reaching most of the fire thus allowing it to expand. I personally would have gone with the interior attack with the two hose lines, using the upper windows as ventilation. Judging from the light color smoke and no flame showing at arrival the interior first floor should be safe to enter and I would guess not much active flames or high heat in the living areas. Doing this would hopefully stop advance into lower sections. As oppose to forcing the flames or heat into the house by fighting through windows. Then searching and/or pulling walls and ceiling to find the soucre or soucres.
    This is only ideas as i was not there. I wish we could have that many firefighters at a house fire. Our last house fire we had 6 firefights. a pump operator, tanker driver,and four firefighters actually on the fire. We had a 1000/1000 pumper, 1250 tanker,1000 gl brush truck, and 750 a Class 9 pumper. ( army suplus w/ portable pump) House was gutted but we save 75% of the walls and roof. For rural in our area that pretty good.
    Oh one safety commemt; there should have been a person footing or holding the ladder.

    These thoughts are my own and may not refect that of the depts.
    Be safe
    and do the best you can.

  4. #4
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    First, I would like to echo fire1152's comment that my post is in no way a slam on the responding dept. or it's members. I wasn't there and it's easy to Monday morning quarterback.
    I grew up in a hous nearly identical to this and I would have to agree with Dalmation 90's assesment that the fire was in the voids. If the structure was anything like mine the front stairwell is directly inside the front door, up the stairs bedroom left, bedroom right, probably a bathroom immediately in front of you at the top. I would also be willing to bet that there was a knee-wall under the dormers in each room and across the stairwell, providing that 3 - 4 foot void where it looks like the fire has taken hold. Again, if this constructuion was like the hous I was raised in, it is actual rafter construction that has been drywalled over providing chases for the smoke and fire to run, thus giving you the smake conditions in all 4 sectors. Not knowing the initial response and a true understanding of the conditions I am not going to comment on any initial actions. My only concern as I went through the pictures was the deployment of the handlines on the roof being directed into the structure. I hope that the interior attack had been abandoned and the crews removed before those lines went into operation. Again, only having the pictures to go by, these lines were cooling down a lot of smoke but not hitting any fire. This job probably required a lot of opening up before any real attack could be made and the first-in crews may not have had the manpower to do so. When it was all said and done, however, it looked like they mad a pretty good save.
    The opinions expressed herein are my own and do not reflect those of my Department or it's Administration.

  5. #5
    CDF
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    Ok - to sum it up, this was not an outside fire, for some reason it was treated that way, we do not know why, we were not there.

    Given another shot at it, with properly staffed companies, we would get two lines upstairs, and get the roof open on the double. The remaining truck guys, and the squad needs to get upstairs as well and get the ceilings and walls opened up. Knee walls will hide the fire, but with good coordination between the guys on the pipe and the guys with the hooks, this is gonna be an easy one. We should not burn the roof off.
    CDF

  6. #6
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    take a look at hte 2nd pic where the fire has vented through the roof, now look at the first pic. Do you see the 2 discolored sections of shingles running up the roof. Notice that is exactly where the fire vented. That tells me the fire has been there for a good deal of time doing a slow burn, probably because a lock of o2. The interior team may have breached the wall or celing beneath those sections giveing the fire the much need o2 and increasing the burn rate. Just a wild guess from a country boy, what do ya'll think?
    When the defecation hits the oscillation I'll be there.

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