Alley Lays

[bjhfd]

Does anyone have an alley lay on their trucks, and if so how often do you use it? We used to have 150' of 2.5 connected to a wye and then 150' of 1.75 with a nozzle on the end. Worked great the few times we needed to deploy two lines a distance from the truck, but recently they removed it from the truck. Just wondering if anyone else out there uses this type of lay.

[seanbrooks]

We either lay into the alley and use the crosslays, or we have a 400' preconnect, extendable to 600' through the addition of 2 100' highrise racks.

[bfcf623]

We use two separate 100' 1 3/4" lines. One of which has a gated 2 1/2" wye attached. Are slang term for them is "Drop Bundles". We pull that and as much 3" that we need to get the drop bundles close enough so we reach into the interior. It can be hooked up pretty fast. We also use break apart nozzles so we can add more line if needed.

[the7tower]

All rigs have 3 two inch and one 1 inch 400 foot preconnects.

[erik3811wfd]

We carry in the bed of our truck 600' of 2 1/2 connected to a wye, you just break the connection <br />where you need to and we have a discharge right there, we also keep two hi rise packs in the compt just below it for quick access

[erik3811wfd]

we usually use it in apt bldg fires or fires where there is an access problem, we usually use it a few times a year, but we do train with it alot more than that

[engine117]

For that purpose, we would use our 2.5" leader line with gated wye at the end and 250' of 1.5" attached to one opening. Works pretty well with a pump pressure of 200 to 225.

[medic1085]

We carry 750' of 2 1/2" in a dead load on every engine, it can be used with a wye or as an attack line, whatever the need.

What would You do with a 400' " 1" " preconnect at a structure fire? <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[HFDCLanger]

There's nothing wrong with a bed of 2 1/2" or 3", a water thief/gated wye, and a couple of high-rise packs, but make sure you carry enough long pre-connects too. 300-400' of 2" does the job nicely.

medic1085: a 400' 1" foam pre-connect can be a great exposure line!

[Trkco1]

[quote] medic1085: a 400' 1" foam pre-connect can be a great exposure line! <br /> <hr></blockquote>

For what??

[ALSfirefighter]

You got that right HFD....We used a "leader line" which was 150' of 3" with a gated wye, and 200' of 13/4. The other outlet on the wye gets the high-rise pack 13/4 connected. Besides alleys we have it for garden style apartments that are set far off the road or parking lot, or just long lays in general, like commercial buildings with entrances off the alleyway. It is also set up in a minuteman lay, but it takes 2 people to pull. If your pulling it for exposure protection, I say just go with 2.5" or use your ladder pipe.

------------------------------------------------<br />The above is my opinion and thoughts only, it doesn't reflect that of any dept/agency I work for, deal with, or am a member of. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

[HFDCLanger]

..."medic1085: a 400' 1" foam pre-connect can be a great exposure line!"...

"For what??"

Um, how about exposures?

(In all seriousness now) How long are your standard pre-connects? 150' or 200'? Ok so that would put you about 100-150' away from your fire building (assuming you don't need more than 50-100' inside). High fire volume could easily spread 100' away via radiant heat (that's 200-250' now), and the exposure(s) could easily have a 100' wall to cover (that's 300-350'). Plus, we all know that flying brands will travel as far as they like. 400'? No problem.

Now, seeing that we are talking about alley lays, wouldn't that mean that your attack lines could be 400' long? And that puts the exposures how many feet away?

So, please tell me that you never have exposures more than 200' from your rig.

As far as the 1" goes: Do you always have two or three firefighters to man every exposure line during a big fire? If you have foam, you don't really need a high volume exposure line.

I'm sorry I went on forever there, but in the future, please don't jump to the conclusion that something somebody else put on their rigs is useless. They probably had a reason, even if none of the things mentioned above apply to your department.

[the7tower]

"........What would you do with a 400' 1" preconnect at a structure fire? "

Have you ever used one? Ever used a high flow 1" line? Do you use CAFS? How about 1" and a medium expansion foam tip? Do you use Gel?

The IOWA state formula seems to indicate we can take out a room 35 by 35. Most houses don't have rooms that size. So there is a good chance we can handle a 10 by 12 kids bedroom, 10 x 15 bedroom, 15 x 15 front room, or half a trailer house, car, garbage can, dumpster, or grass fire.

"What would you do with a 400' 1" "

I don't know, quick stretch (certainly faster than any wyed setup and high rise bundle operation), quick water, good reach, less work for the crew, excellent to overhaul with by saving the guys backs. It only flows 95 gpm with or without foam or CAFS. I think that is the same as what 180 gpm water stream, isn't it?

Don't most of the worlds attack lines flow just about that out of their small lines? I keep reading on these forums about engine pressures of 100, 125, and 150 psi on 150 to 200 foot 1 1/2 and 1 3/4 inch lines. Soundslike about 100 gpm doesn't it.

Isn't 95 gpm the NFPA recomended flow for interior and auto fire attack lines? Why does half of the worlds nozzles have a 95 gpm setting?

Others post stuff like: "For that purpose, we would use our 2.5" leader line with gated wye at the end and 250' of 1.5" attached to one opening. Works pretty well with a pump pressure of 200 to 225. "

No questions are asked. 200 psi the above would flow 100 gpm out of a 400 foot leader line lay.

Subtract the 2 1/2 and you get 120 gpm, if the nozzle isset right or is capable.

Another: "We use two separate 100' 1 3/4" lines. One of which has a gated 2 1/2" wye attached. We pull that and as much 3" that we needed "

So 800' 3" you get what??? 150 gpm.

"We used a "leader line" which was 150' of 3" with a gated wye, and 200' of 1 3/4."

gee 160 gpm. And the time to set that up 3, 4, minutes versus 45 seconds. They've got what four fittings to make, open a compartment what three guys minumum four most likely? They haul what 7 times the weight?

Let's examine your post seeing as how you are asking the question let me ask you one, you state: "We carry 750' of 2 1/2" in a dead load on every engine, it can be used with a wye or as an attack line, whatever the need."

A wyed 750 foot line flows what???? 66 gpm?

Our three 400 foot 2 inch lines per rig, at 280 gpm each with foam or without with CAFS or without with or without gel. Two Bomb Lines, blow 744 each or dual reverse 5" ability on every rig in the department and dual or quadruple guns flow 3000 gpm plus, or simply leaving two 5 inch manifolds and 1 to 15 attack lines, all our beds are instantly field sripable easily from the rig. We are only limited by 2600 feet (quints)to 5200 feet (engines) of 5 inch and 3650 feet of attack line.

Obviously anything will work, we've thought ours out to match the need.

The concept of multiple long preconnects with two size options and the option for the crew to use what they think is best for the situation at hand.

[ 12-29-2001: Message edited by: the7tower ]</p>

[ALSfirefighter]

Hey 7Tower, You forget to take your ridalin?<br />The guy asked what would you do with a 400' 1" line. He didn't ask for a nasty toned, ram it down your throat answer. To bad Larry isn't still around you 2 would get along great. That is if your not Larry S. I didn't see one post that argued about anything you said. Only the question what it is used for. And as far as our leader line, it has never taken more then 2-3 minutes to set up. As far as your ISO Class 1, bravo. But for me, that doesn't make any reflecton as to how your dept. operates.

-------------------------------------------------<br />The above is my opinion only and doesn't reflect that of any dept/agency I work for, deal with, and am a member of. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

[LadderCapp]

We keep a 300' pre-connect, 100' of 3"/ gated wye/ to 200" 1 3/4. This can be extended to a 500' line with our high-rise packs, which is 2" (In theory this cuts down on friction loss for long lays)

as far as the question of what would you do with a 400' lay at a structure fire. In my first in district we have approx.and I do mean approx(I'm not nearly bored enough to count them) 100 single family dwellings with an costs ranging from 1.5 to 11 Mil. These residences sit on the average of at least 100' off the curb. Of course they use standard asphalt driveways, or thin concrete that I wouldn't pull a ladder into, even if it wasn't mine! I have seen, and used 400' and longer lines many times at a house fire. Let's keep in mind not everyone's response district is the same.

[Trkco1]

[quote] "........What would you do with a 400' 1" preconnect at a structure fire? "<br />Have you ever used one? Ever used a high flow 1" line? Do you use CAFS? How about 1" and a medium expansion foam tip? Do you use Gel? <br /><hr></blockquote>

Guess we're dinosaurs....we still use water.

[quote] It only flows 95 gpm with or without foam or CAFS. I think that is the same as what 180 gpm water stream, isn't it? <br /> <hr></blockquote>

Please clarify??

[quote] The guy asked what would you do with a 400' 1" line. He didn't ask for a nasty toned, ram it down your throat answer. <hr></blockquote>

Thanx ALS but I didn't think he was nasty or "Rammed" anything down my throat.

[ADSNWFLD]

Our beds are set up with 800' of 3" wyed into a 100' 2.5" line, and in the other bed wyed into a 150' 1.75" line. We also carry a spare 2.5" and 1.75" skid.

My part time department has 1000' 3" with a water thief, usually place the hotel pack on the end, or we can break down one of the four preconnects.

Question for Larry. What do you flow out of a 1" line? Last time I checked at 60 GPM the FL was about 90 per 100'. 360 psi of FL is excessive, especially for flows less than the NFPA recommeded 95gpm.