1. #1
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    Question Akron SabreJet Combo Fog/SB Nozzle

    Let's get off on the right foot here,, This is not a SB vs. Fog thread!

    The Dept. I work for is looking at the SabreJet Nozzle to replace some of out older automatic fogs, and to put at least one handline on each rig with SB capability. We have looked and tested the nozzle some and it is definitely the best of both worlds.

    HOWEVER,,, I have some concerns with the shut off mechanism for the fog stream. For those that don't know, on the SabreJet, The bale controls the SB ONLY, and the fog tip is controlled with Ye' Ole' garden nozzle style twisting shut off.

    Now,, the question.<br />Does anyone have any experience with these type shut offs on a newer style nozzle in reference to extreme cold weather situation. I remember from my oh god,, younger days when we had several of these types and they were prone to freezing up. Let me know..

  2. #2
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    See, the Sabrejet hooks you up with fog capabilities, but does it give you the best thing about TFT auto nozzles? The bale on a TFT is like controlling the gate at the pump panel. If you're pushing too much water and you can't control the line, all you have to do is gate the bale down and the nozzle lowers the flow without changing the stream, thereby lowering the reaction and making it easier to flow. Its the BEST part of a TFT nozzle.

  3. #3
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    We don't have many concerns about extreme cold wether applications down here, but we did just get a pumper with the Saberjets because they were reccommended for the CAFS system that we got with the pumper. I have a few of my own concerns about the combo nozzle idea.

    1. The pump operator had better know which nozzle type the nozzleman is going to use because there's a big difference in pressure between a fog and a SB.

    2. If a less experienced nozzleman gets into a "left for life" emergency situation, he may inadvertently throw the stream too far and shut the water off completely.

    I haven't got to play with it too much, so maybe my concerns will be answered in due time. Any thoughts?
    These are my opinions and not those of the organizations for which I work and/or volunteer.

  4. #4
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    My engine company received a Saberjet for trial use and evaluation two months ago. The smooth bore size was 7/8" on the nozzle sent to us. Each shift experimented with this nozzle and we just weren't impressed enough with it to make a recommendation toward purchase. Not saying this nozzle won't do da job, it just didn't float our boat.

  5. #5
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    I would beg to differ with you CIFD88 on the bale not changing the stream. The saberjet nozzle bale works on a simple ball valve for the shut off of the smoothbore, It definitely changes the stream when you try to shut it down. We had a test nozzle here last week and experimented at some length. And I don't want to compare the nozzle to TFT nozzles, that's apples to oranges. We had TaskForce auto's for several years at my dept. and I'm familiar with them already.<br /> My concerns are with the twisting ring shut off mechanism on the fog portion of the nozzle. The old, and I do mean older nozzles that had shut offs like that were notorious for freezing up when left unattended even for short times like in salvage, or mop up mode.I wasn't sure if anyone had had one out in the cold yet. <br /> We are looking also at some of the options of other mfg. Although haveing to take a tip off and screw another one on in a hostile environment isn't my personal first choice.

  6. #6
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    MikeE-631's Avatar
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    Red face

    I'm not sure about its resistance concerning freezing but I do would like to share our experience with this type of nozzle. We received one on a trial basis and hooked it up to the preconnect crosslay on one of our engines. An e-mail was sent out with the instructions on how to operate this nozzle. Unfortunately, we had a structure fire early the next morning, and most people hadn't read their e-mail yet. You can imagine what happened. A rookie arrived on scene on a different engine, was instructed to pull the preconnect of above mentioned engine and was quite surprised to hear the nozzle hiss as it was being charged. Frantically moving the "shut-off handle" back and forth didn't do any good. While trying to shut the d@#n thing off he pointed it to the ground, splashing mud everywhere, including his SCBA mask! <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> The engineer of that engine finally showed him the nozzle operation and our rookie proceeded to fight fire, bumping into everything and everyone due to extremely poor visibility! <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <br />This really isn't an argument against this style of nozzle, clearly noone should have hooked it up without ensuring everyone is comfortable with it's operation. But nonetheless most of us found it too userunfriendly. I like the concept though and hope they come up with a design, that's foolproof to operate and still has SB and fog capabilities.

    Mike

  7. #7
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    I understand your concern with the fog nozzle shutoff. I've never used or seen a saberjet, but it seems like it could be a bit of a problem. My department utilizes one of the Akron assault nozzles (don't know the number type) that has a breakaway fog tip which goes down to a 15/16 smoothbore built into the the nozzle and a normal bail-type shut-off. It sort of a 3 in 1 nozzle, it has fog and smoothbore capabilities and the fog tip can be removed revealing 1-1/2 threads that can be used to extend the line without having to shut the line down at the pump. It works very well for my department and haven't had any problems with them. Just wanted to throw another possibility your way. It may be worth looking in to.

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    Default saberjet

    You have to crawl before you can walk. When you went on the job or became a voly did you know how to use an SCBA? I presume you did not. In all the replys not one of you even mentioned how much water this thnig throws. In a highrise environment the reach is outstanding. Put a flow meter on this nozzle and see just how much water you get. Yes it is a newer idea and yes it may be confusing at first. Correct me if I am wrong, but dont we do training to become familiar with new products or tactics.

    From what I see and hear Automatics are being phased out.

  9. #9
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    Default saberjet

    Fireron, Why are autos being phased out? The saberjet flows as much as a smoothbore of the same size, whats new here?

    If your standard pump pressure is based on the orifice of the smoothbore on the saberjet, what happens when you open the fog? Do you have to ask for more pressure when you open the fog? Can they both be opened at once? Again, what pressure do you pump the line? If you increase flow at the nozzle without increasing pressure, don't both streams become ineffective? I saw it and wasn't very impressed. Seems like a gadget to allow Chiefs that don't do their homework to appease both smoothbore and fog fans. If you want a good fog and straight stream in the same tip, a 75 psi TFT is fine, drilled with ours tonight, next to our smoothbore (same flow 75 vs 50 psi) same reach. Both nozzles have a place and will work, I think the saberjet is a gimmick that offers the supposed protection of a fog stream while making you perform a different maneuver under emergency conditions.
    Last edited by Halligan84; 01-30-2002 at 12:42 AM.

  10. #10
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    Default

    Cap:

    Our Volunteer department has looked into the saberjet nozzles also and we also found a few glitches that concerned us as well. Being a Volunteer department and not having all the members up to par on training with the nozzles as needed, and not having a huge volume of fire calls, we decided that trying to get the nozzled to go from combination to s.b. was to difficult for most members to remember.

    We had previuosly tried the TFT nozzle that has the orfices that you would insert when you wanted to switch from combi to s.b., and that was even worse because we had to dismantle the whole nozzle and insert the orfice you wanted and work with it. We also experienced the problem that the nozzle would not operate right once the orfice was installed.

    What we did was to select the akron saberjet break-off with the turbojet nozzle.The break-off has the orfices already installed and all we have to do is take of the turbojet nozzle itself and we have the s.b. operation we need. We have all hand lines on the new engine equipped this way,and within the year the other engine will be equipped that way also.

    We felt that it was justplain easier to remove the nozzle than to play around with the combi side of it or to remove the nozzle and reach into a bag and then install the orfice.

    maybe this can help.

    KEEP DOING IT FOR THE RIGHT REASONS

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