1. #1
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    Question Car Fire S.O.G.s

    I just watched an edition of "The Bravest" where they ran with the D.C.F.D.. One of the calls was a fully involved (tires were popping) car fire in an alley threatening a house and a dumpster. The announcer said how they stay upwind so as not to breath the toxic gases given off during the fire.

    My question: isn't that what SCBA's are for? Only one of the responders had a pack on but no mask. Our company's SOG is to be fully packed and breathing off the cylinder before attempting to extinguish a fire of THAT magnitude. I know there are varying degrees of car fires but with all of the plastic in cars these days all fires will involve some level of toxic gases.

    I don't disagree with our policy, I endorse it.

    Just wondering what everybody else does in this situation.
    Steve Dragon
    FFII, Fire Instructor II, Fire Officer I, Fire Appartus Driver Operator Certified
    Volunteers are never "off duty".
    http://www.bufd7.org

  2. #2
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    Our department requires full TOG and SCBA at any car fire. We attack working car fires with a 1 3/4" line and class A foam. Normal approach is at a 45 degree angle to the vehicle, to stay out of the path of bumpers, tires, or wheel parts that might come sailing off. There's just too much nasty stuff in car fire smoke to do it any other way. Take your time, do it safely. Besides, any half decent car fire is the equivalent of a dumpster with wheels. Stay safe.
    R.A. Ricciuti
    Mt. Lebanon Fire Department

  3. #3
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    Our SOG is also calling for full turnout and SCBA. Obviously the interior materials will give off a lot of toxic smoke. And you never know what's in the trunk! This could be a hazmat incident, and you wouldn't know it until you discover it during overhaul! Unless it's just a smoldering floor mat, I'd rather be on the safe side.

    Mike

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    I agree with the fact the full ppe should be worn and that includes scba and breathing air. I would like to make a comment on staying upwind though. This seems like a good idea, limit your exposure as much as you can. Now what about when you cannot attack from upwind? A trick we have tried is after the pump operator charges the line he/she will get the ppv fan off the truck and set it up about 15' to 20' away from the vehicle to make an artifical wind. This allows you to have better visibility (no matter what you are doing it seems the smoke always blows toward you) and limits your exposure to smoke. Remember some toxins are absorbed through the skin. Anyway just a thought to try next time out to see if you like it and by the way it works great on dumpster fires too.

  5. #5
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    I saw the same episode of The Bravest and wondered the same thing. The vehicle was too heavily involved and putting off entirely too much smoke not to use SCBA.

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    Wink

    Dragon-fyre I think SCBA should be utilize for well established fires. I prefer approaching a vehicle from the sides and start flowing water from a distance to cool the vehicle. We work in closer until we can utilize a piercing nozzle and finish it off. As far as the T.V. program goes I have noticed announcers tend to sensationalize comments to "Sell" the story. I have a question for "the7tuwer" since you don't list a email address what setup are you using to get 125 gpm flows from a 1" hose. I really want to know, email me if you want thanks.

  7. #7
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    the7tuwer,<br />Was that a serious reply or some sort of gag? Hand out ID vests? Search w/ a ladder? K-12 saw? Wow. Just put the fire out and go home.

  8. #8
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    Oh lord, I'm afraid to see what the 7Tuwer is going to say next. What are your SOP's for a dumpster fire?

  9. #9
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    We usually deploy four of our eight groud ladders for a vehicle fire and attack from above with no SCBA. We also always have stay-puff marhmellows, choclate bars, and graham crackers....whats a car fire with no smores(and no I dont know how to spell) and of course the officer has to give orders cause we dont know what the hell we are doing..... (smore baking takes alot of practice)

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    ...and to think, that whole sad story could have been prevented if they'd only got their ladder out quicker. You know what the trouble with power locks is...when they don't work people forget you can manually flip the lock. Here's a true story for ya...I went on a vehicle "lock-in" call once. Lady called on a cell phone from inside her Suburban stating she was locked inside. We had to yell at her through the window to push the lock....worked like a champ...and I don't even think we have a SOP for that. I guess it's a good thing her car wasn't on fire.

    How's that for constructive, 7Tuwer?

    Arlan's car fire SOP's:<br />1) Nomex tank tops must be worn<br />2) SCBA should be available, but use is optional<br />3) Big car w/ big fire...big water<br />4) Little car...little water<br />5) Attack at angles...Whatever angle is easiest that is... 90 degrees, 45 degrees, whatever...<br />6) Don't worry about water supply...if you run out of water and a car is still on fire...what's the use anyway? Let it burn.<br />7) If the flames are blue, green, or deep red...call another engine in because they aren't going to believe you when you tell them later.<br />8) And of yeah, always, always approach through the puddle of flaming gasoline. Bystanders will be dazzled by our walking through fire impersonation. It's really cool to sweep it w/ the hose a couple of times and let it reignite under your feet.<br />9) And whatever you do...Don't cool off the gas tank!! Hopefully it's aluminum and will melt at 1200 degrees. This allows for a huge, flaming flash fire. Great photo op is the driver has run out of things to do at this point!

    [ 01-14-2002: Message edited by: gah74 ]</p>

  11. #11
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    WOW!!!!

    Does anyone have an S.O.P. for mopping floors?<br />Or maybe a HANDBOOK for cleaning the station?<br />Cuz, most of the people I know, clean the station more often than respond to auto fires....... And they always FREELANCE, you know....Grab the mop when they are supposed to be in the "ringer" position <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> !!! Or, mop before sweeping....mop themselves into corners (then have to call a "mayday" and activate the R.I.T.)!!!! Then if the B/C is busy doing something stupid like manpower, or other reports.... You have to call for another chief, coming from across town..... not to mention the "plans" chief to complete injury reports (this could be avoided with good PPE S.O.P.'s) and document that the cleaning was actually done in the proper order!!!

    Without these S.O.P.'s..... sure the mopping gets done.... but the toilets are just completly ignored <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> !

    Of course everyone knows S.C.B.A. must be used when dealing with cleaning solutions!!! Or if the Ph of the water being used is unknown!!!!

    SORRY.....

    So....

    If there is smoke.... that you don't want to inhale....wear S.C.B.A. (no matter what the safety nazi tells you), you have to enjoy your retirement!
    FTM-PTB
    trk4

  12. #12
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    I think this guy (the7tuwer) gets a laugh getting everybody wound up with these wild comments. Very good wit, and you have good writing skills! For real, what do you do for a job? A writer of some kind?

    The vest deal really is hilarious. I will talk to the chief ASAP so we can get ours. That way we can rip all the NFPA reflective striping off our gear!<br />

    <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

  13. #13
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    I wonder if these vests would look good with our nomex tank tops. You know, I may have to jump on the bandwagon here. Where can I get one of these vests at?

    I like those links you put up for us. Cool pics!

  14. #14
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    All right let the bashing start. No scba Opt. Jack ,boots and helm. Red line. at 200psi stay out of the smoke . fire goes out in 10 min with opening the hood. Back to the station in 20 min.

    Its simple stay up hill up wind or up stream. one of the three works the best UP WIND

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    the7tower,

    Did you have to actually learn to be so anal or is it your gentics?

    Oh please tell us all about the vast experience you gained from the thousands of fires you've fought.(Especially The Great Tumbleweed Conflagration)

    [ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: firedawg666 ]</p>

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    I was wondering how long it woud take for you to return Nate!!!!. You have been bashing people here for as long as i can rember. (just under different aka's of course). In my post scba opt. What dept doesn't have an SOP that says scbas must be worn at car fires (none that I know) any real firefighter would have known that. I wear my scba, i take it off when i deem necessary. Thats for my protection!!Now if somebody doesn't wear his or hers thats their problem not mine. Oh a real firefighter already knows that , however you already knew that RIGHT!!!!! Do you post any good information on this web site maybe to help some other firefighters out or are you just be your same old self and keep bashing everyone in here????

  17. #17
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    Okay. When Detroit goes private, NOT!, get back to me.

    [ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: fireman george ]</p>
    See You At The Big One

  18. #18
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    Sorry, double post

    [ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: firedawg666 ]</p>

  19. #19
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    Hey I read in the post"red line"I didn't see the words "booster" anywhere.Our first line off on a vehicle fire is a "red Line",your choice 2" angus or 1.75 Angus,both red.Quite effective either choice.T.C.

  20. #20
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    the7tower

    You still forgot to reply to the questions of how you became so anal. Is it natural or genetic? Please tell us about your experiences with the the Great Tumbleweed Conflagration and what really happened at Fire Rescue. I just hope I can become as great a firefighter as you THINK you are. Debating you is a lost cause because as everyone on these forums knows, your perfect and never wrong. I'm humbled in your presence oh God Of Firefighting, I bow before you, NOT!

  21. #21
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    well Mr Nate. I must have struck a nerve. Here you go again flying off the handle. Ranting and raving about nothing to do with the subject again. Where in my post was i bragging about the thousands of fires i was on. I thought this form was to be a car fire SOG post. Again any real FD (NOT LEGO LAND FD.) Which you belong too, Has a SOG about car fires. I know of no one in the United States that reads,"SCBA was OPT." If there is please let me know. The only one that I know is (SCBA SHOULD BE WORN TO ALL FIRES INVOLVING CARS AND THE LIKE...)so on and so on. If you like i can post or SOG for you but you already have that info I am sure of that. In my original post I was Making sure it was you. I was right you are the one that sent me all that worthless info last time from the news papers which can't get a story right haft the time any way. Please post something new not the same old stuff. Your quint posting was the best,this was a while back i logged on evertday just to see what new info you had to present to the nation as a whole.The only problem there was no info all you did was bash everyone there also.

    The reason for my original post on this form was to get a rise out of you. Sorry. its too much fun.

    PS Please I got to know Whats going on in lego land???

  22. #22
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    I already posted the Arlan SOP. <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

  23. #23
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    7tuwer,

    How dare you make personal attacks against a brother firefighter. The joking around on this post was initiated by your ridiculous novel-length responses anyway. No one criticized you or your department. Stop being a baby and start taking your responsibilites as a firefighter seriously.

  24. #24
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    Well what do you know? The7Tuwer and I can agree on this...I definitely welcome your posts and whatever you want to say in them. Every once in a while (after I filter out the cr*p), I actually learn something. Kinda strange that you can't argue for something without trying to pick apart other departments, but I really don't mind.

    I looked at your website. Cool nozzle, by the way...Pretty nifty idea on using the tips as a pistol grip.

  25. #25
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    umm, if we are still on the discussion of car fires, i would like to bring up a call we had last night. with out getting into too much detail, it was a plumbing truck that was fully involved and there were we believe magnesium rods in the cab. it was quite interesting to see those go up when fire and water were applied. just one more reason to be safe going up to any scene or fire.

    stay safe.

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