Have you read the "new" confined space standard. Are you complying? Does your local industry support your efforts?
What type of reliable communications eqt. do you use?
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Thread: Confined Space Rescue
05-11-1999, 04:47 PM #1billyFirehouse.com Guest
Confined Space Rescue
05-13-1999, 02:00 PM #2RESCUE 69Firehouse.com Guest
STANDARDS?!?! Who needs those? Here where im from, we see all that stuff as a roadblock to progress. Its alot easier to back a tow truck up to the hole and lower one of our guys in to lasso the victim with a manilla rope and a tow truck winch, people actually spend thousands of dollars on all that newfangle junk when we have been handling it this way for years, come on guys...why copmplicate it. Back to basics is my motto!
05-14-1999, 12:54 PM #3BURNSEMSFirehouse.com Guest
Yo dude I can only hope you are kidding, The Standard is a guidline for proper facilitation of testing and preparedness, I do think howevere it may be a little one sided, How many small dept can afford the Equipment a Confined Space Rescue Requires and afford to keep spending money for training that may never be utilized, but the standard requires the local responding agency to be prepared and tested to standard with standard equipment, I think that it only feedes the pocket of those Corporations like ROCO,CMC,REI ect that have the millions the spend and offers only regulation and more problems for those of us in small departments that do good to maintain Basic FF Skills of our members. Our Dept will respond but if it requires more than we can properly and safely handel our next resource is 25 min away even with pre warning and there are alot of people in confined spaces across this country right now without the benefit of proper Support, Testing, and Rescue. The Law Makers need to Supply Before They Demand, our resources are already Low and funds to support are tight WHO WILL SUFFER NEXT
05-18-1999, 02:17 PM #4e33Firehouse.com Guest
Confined Space Rescue is one of our agencies specialties. We fill 2 teams of 2 fully equipped (enrty team and backup team).
ENTRY OFFICER: Reports to the Extrication Officer. Is directly responsible for the operations of entry and back-up teams, communications with said teams, and operations within the space. This person will be operating the Con-Space (brand) communications system. The system consists of main box which has 4 outlets, a splitter box, which allows communications with both teams simultaneously or one team at a time. A speaker box, a headset, and assorted cable lengths. Also must ensure proper PAS proceedures are followed.
ENTRY TEAM: Is responsible for entry after hazards mitigated and air quailty on exterior is sampled and recorded. Entry team WILL have on nomex jumpsiut, Steel toe boots, Bullard Advent helmet, rope rescue style gloves, nomex hood, knee and elbow pads if preferred, full body harness (class 3 NFPA 1983 approved),Cairns Pioneer SABA with 15 min escape bottles (or SCBA 45 minute bottle with in line air port), PASS device, wrists and ankles duct taped, hi intensity white lightstick for visibility in IDLH atmsphere, and Con Space (brand) communications equipment. This includes a throat mic and ear receiver.
They are attached to an "umbilical" which is simply a 2" piece of 100' webbing. Inside the webbing the supplied air hose, 7/16" lifeline, and hard wire communications cable are fitted. This makes line managment simple and easy. The entry team had one red umbilical and one blue one. This helps to distinguish the 2 members. There are (4) each red and blue so that each member may have 200' of line. Air is supplied by Air Systems Intl Pack4 carts with 60 min air cylinders.
The duty of this team is to enter the safed space and determine the mechanisim(s) of entrappment / engulfment, access and other factors. They are responsible to bring a supply of air to the victim, this is accomplished by bringing a "victim bag" into the space. Such bag comtains a simple full face mask and strap to hold it on the victim and 200' of air supply line. They are also responsible to provide the device (s) required to remoe the patient. This is usually goung to be one of several things including but not limited to a SKED, 1/2 SKED, LSP halfback or Wristlets. It is ideal to treat injuries that present as severe and try to preserve spinal stability, but also understood that such may be impossible to do in the space given.
BACK UP TEAM: Equipped identically to entry team. Stands by to assist in rescue of primary team if needed and to serve as second entry team. At no time will the back up team enter the space without another team filling their vacated position. Back up team may also provide air quality sampling periodically thrpughout the incident or assist with other tasks which won't distract them from their main duty.
Retrieval system is uaually a Hercules adjustable tripod (6-10' i believe) with a pre rigged 4:1 system of 1/2 inch rope. A ladder derrick may also be used as well as an aerial device if need be.
Atmospheric ventilation is accomplisned with an Air Systems blower, it has a 20' and 10' flex duct and saddle vent tube for manhole apps. Also have available a 16" smoke ejector with 25' flex duct.
Air monitoring accomplished with AIM 4 gas detectors, set up with oxygen, carbon monoxide, LEL, and Hydrogen sulfide sensors.
[This message has been edited by e33 (edited May 18, 1999).]
05-18-1999, 07:58 PM #5GateFirehouse.com Guest
Hey Rescue 69,
People like you are the reason we have a fireman's prayer.
Just 1 reason why your way is the WRONG way, just think of the extra weight the wrecker is adding to the already weakened area around the confined space area !!! Smarten up or you yourself could become a victim .
05-19-1999, 05:06 AM #6IckymowFirehouse.com Guest
Boy e33 I met you in another post about a knot you like. Please go back and read the post I made later. Seams like you have it all togather. I would love to share some infoe on con-space teams. I belong to and industrial team at the place where I work. I hope the knot thing is squared after you read my other post to you. You seam to have it quite togather when it comes to your team. You have quite a bit of equipment and much of it sounds like the same things we have on ours. Feel free to e-mail me our we can talk here if you want. Others might benifit if we did. Let me know.
05-19-1999, 10:31 AM #7e33Firehouse.com Guest
Our feeling is more or less "if you are going to do something, equip yourself to do it safely and efficiently". We spend alot of $ on training and equipment,but the tradeoff is how well it works and how safe it is.
For any tye of confined space job...confirmed or dispatch info only, we M/A the other rescue company in our county to assist. We know full well that such incidents are time and labor intensive.
QUESTION for Bill: Are you referring to NFPA 1670 Standard on Rescue Operations? or OSHA Respiratory Protection Standard?
[This message has been edited by e33 (edited May 19, 1999).]
05-20-1999, 05:38 AM #8IckymowFirehouse.com Guest
I am a captain on an industrial confined space rescue team. The company saw the need for this team and asked several of the vol fire fighters if the company foot the bill for training if we would be interested in forming a team for them? We said sure and about 6 years ago we started. We started with about 25 guys and have grown to about 50. Our training has been quite extensice from companies like START Rescue, Roco Rescue, LA Rescue and training with the Syracuse FD to training at OCC community colledge. We train with our local vol. fd at least twice a year and train as a team once a month. The company has spared no expence when it comes to us. If we needed it they bought it. If has helped me by alowing me to bring the training back to my department and teach them quite a bit. One other thing to keep in mind. Since we are and industrial team OSHA has come to visit us several times to see what we are doing. We have to pay strict attention to details when it comes to safety and so far they like what they see. We some time train only on the standard and what we need to do to comply. Works out well for us.
05-25-1999, 06:31 PM #9TEKRSQFirehouse.com Guest
e33-- you been peaking at our SOP's? With a few minor differences in equipment, that's pretty much the way we do things. I'm also a member of a heavy squad responsible for the high angle, confined space, collapse, & heavy duty vehicle rescues in our fine city. We too have spent countless hours of training not only in house, but with some of our local industry. Some industries have an "initial response team" for confined space and leave the rescue to us, while others rely solely on us. We've spent a lot time with these teams to ensure they know how to work with us and we can work with them. In addition, we also respond a quint co. trained in basic technical rescue techniques for manpower support and our haz-mat squad. So far there has not been a need for us, but during training it has flowed exceptionally well.
06-28-1999, 07:42 PM #10ConSpaceTLFirehouse.com Guest
Rescue 69...I have to agree with several other replies to your posting. 60% of those who die in confined spaces are wouldbe rescuers like your self. Lack of proper equipment including atmospheric monitors, ventilation, rope systems, and PPE will ultimatly land you in the statistics...Please get some training and equipment for confined space rescue soon!!!
The standards set forth by Fed OSHA, various state OSHA's, MSHA, NFPA, etc. are only minimums. Any serious rescue or confined space rescue team has developed their own more stringent standards and SOG/SOP system.
06-29-1999, 12:09 PM #11jsteeleFirehouse.com Guest
Does nobody understand sarcasim? There are some pretty backwards departments out there yet, but none quite that bad...
06-29-1999, 05:34 PM #12e33Firehouse.com Guest
I tend to have to agree..how could that be a reality? If it is...I'd hate to live in that town!
06-29-1999, 07:46 PM #13ConSpaceTLFirehouse.com Guest
As you, I hope that it was sarcasm. Sadly I must disagree with you on the part about backward/outdated departments. I have toured/evaluated fire departments in several western states. I do not mean to ping on volunteer departments but some are just not up to speed. (this is not always their fault due to tradition, budget, personnel, politics etc.)
My brother is a Deputy Chief on a volunteer fire dept. in Idaho. When he joined the department in 93 they had SCBA units stored in the stations but none on the engines. He installed the SCBA units on the engines and half of his volunteers quit!
P.S. although I currently work at a full time department(and I've seen some backward ones too), I also work as a volunteer in my small town and have done so elsewhere.
P.P.S. I feel for small departments struggling to meet training requirments and staffing/equipment/rescue needs with limited or nonexistant budgets!!!
Carl Austin, Engineer, China Lake Federal Fire Div.
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