Congratulations to everyone in this discussion. This promotes the very discussion, thoughts and ideas about the topic. In this case, quints. What everyone seems to be saying is that quints have their respective place. Also, stated is that quints aren't for everyone and there are some specific issues that must be addressed for quints to be effectively integrated into any firefighting situation. My hats off to all of you in the firefighting family and the ongoing dialogue on this and other issues! Be safe whereever you are!!!
Results 21 to 25 of 25
12-31-1998, 12:07 AM #21cwernerFirehouse.com Guest
12-31-1998, 10:04 AM #22STA2Firehouse.com Guest
Just when I thought we were gonna agree to disagree you bring up something else. I don't know how many EMS calls you all make in the desert, but here we make a lot of them. I mean a lot of them. You say its all a social problem. You are probably partly right, but what if your not right. The hand holding is right sometimes also. The babysitting is right sometimes. Who are you though? You are a civil servant (Unless Nevada is different). Your job is to respond to the publics request for emergency services. It is not your job or mine to tell someone if they are having a true emergency over the phone in all cases. Sometimes yes you can screen them properly. Tell Dallas about screening calls. A number of yrs ago they screened calls using a nurse I believe (someone out there correct me if I am wrong). They also had a lawsuit from that same policy and no longer do it. If your medical director says so then great, no load them over the phone. But eventually you will end up in court. It sounds like you are being a bit harsh about the public who you said before deserved 100%. Sounds like a contradiction. Were you lying then OR now? Send the pizza guy and a taxi, its your indictment, not mine. Call the SPCA while you are at it. But when you fail to meet a standard of care, have fun. But we are off the subject again aren't we. You should care about FDNY basements. You should care about stations all over the country from dept's that want quints to put in them. You are advocating giants for everyone. The concrete and steel companies are gonna love you. As I said before, your conditions and area and my conditions and area DON'T MATTER TO EVERYONE. If a customer(Who I believe you called dumb before) wants a quint that can do everything and then some great. But not everyone can afford those apparatus or need them. Like I said I don't need a quint here to do an ARFF rigs job. Maybe you do. I don't have to worry about the SWI problem that you do. Maybe you are preparring for a mutual-aid with Idaho in the spring. I don't know. You are still saying that if they don't have the capability to equal yours then the customer (The buying dept.) is dumb or stupid or was sold a demo spec or something. 2000 gallons of water, 300 gallons of AFFF, "A" and "B" foam cells, 2 miles of supply line, 20 pre-connected attack lines, pump panels on all three sides of the rig, 2 deck pipes, an ariel device, 3000 gallon drop tank, 200 lbs of Purple K for the ARFF role, your gel stuff, and everything else altogether IS NOT NEEDED IN EVERY APPLICATION. Nobody said you are on FDNY running cards. Is that next yrs project? What about them not using quints. Are they dumb for not? I DON'T THINK SO. They are still the busiest dept in the world and do a good job. Thay don't run 100' towers with 2000 GPM pumps (except with previously mentioned Ladder 14). Choose your words carefully but please reply. They appear to have a good handle on the tasks at hand using regular Ladder and Tower Ladder apparatus. How many runs a yr do you make with those earth shattering quints? 350 a yr for the entire dept. is it? Now run those marvels of life up and down the rode 18 or more times a day like D.C. Engine 10 and Truck 13. How about with 138 Truck in Queens or Engine 290 in East NY? Maybe Task Force 33 or 11 in L.A. is better? What about the south side of Chicago and Squad Co. 5 with their snorkel. Do that and get a good look at real life problems. Your valves can be field repairable w/out tools in 5 min. or 5 seconds. It doesn't matter when other things keep breaking and you are out of service to assist the public. You are the one saying that these rigs are required for everyone if they buy a quint. You are also the one saying that your economic solution to buying the world with a single P.O. is required. I am arguing for the "rest" of the fire service who doesn't print thir own money. You keep taughting your rigs performance. I'll say it again. T-H-A-T I-S N-I-C-E. You needed it, good. You wanted it, great. You got it, now go play with it in the desert like a good boy. Please, I do not care to here about your current rigs capabilities AGAIN. The first 4 times was enough. They are impressive. Lets stay on the issues shall we like you said. Those issues are quints in general and their applications and limitations. As before, be safe and have a good day.
12-31-1998, 02:37 PM #23fcfdFirehouse.com Guest
<I don't know how many EMS calls you all make in the desert> Yes you do zero. We let ems do ems remember? Your job is to respond to the publics request for emergency services. Real emergencies like an insurance company, yo wanna blast into the ER room for a broken finger nail or you feel sick they donít pay.
<It is not your job or mine to tell someone if they are having a true emergency over the phone in all cases.> Dallas still does it as do 50% of the ems force in the country.
< But eventually you will end up in court.> Youíll end up in court no matter what you do, serve the public properly and fairly not the legal system.
< Were you lying then OR now?> Iím always lying. Sure lets go hold hands on non emergencies and not be available for thereal ting.
< Send the pizza guy and a taxi, its your indictment,> Yes it was a defib on each would save 250,000 lives a year according the ACS.
You should care about FDNY basements. You should care about stations all over the country from dept's that want quints to put in them. Ok from now on we will focus on FDNY before we ever buy a rig for us. Will look in th basements, look at the small stations, their trees, etc. WHY?
<You are advocating giants for everyone.> What part of THE SAME SIZE and WEIGHT donít you understand? <EVERYONE?> Where did anyone say that?
<But not everyone can afford those apparatus or need them.> What part of costs less donít you understand? Pickup the phone call your favorite app builder, does their basic quint still cost more than what we bought? Yes. It did 4 years ago too.
<Like I said I don't need a quint here to do an ARFF rigs job.> That certainly is conventional thinking, all the magazines show the FD response to tankers burning and those into cars as wait till the CFR rig arrives. What kind of level of service is that? We simply show up with any rig and go to war.
<They don't run 100' towers with 2000 GPM pumps (except with previously mentioned Ladder 14).> Actually they owned four over 15 years.
<How many runs a yr do you make with those earth shattering quints? 350 a yr for the entire dept. is it? Now run those marvels of life up and down the rode 18 or more times a day like D.C. Engine 10 and Truck 13. How about with 138 Truck in Queens or Engine 290 in East NY? Maybe Task Force 33 or 11 in L.A. is better? What about the south side of Chicago and Squad Co. 5 with their snorkel. >
Funny isnít it all of them own quints! Who cares how many they run, we built ours for us. How many rigs do they run with 250,000 miles on them or 750,000 miles on them. We have several here and the guys wonít give them up for brand new. Why? We donít have a maintenance problem. Smart buying. Oh, they donít average 15 miles per call do they? They donít run 250 miles one way, do they? I guess they couldnít hold up. Oh, almost all our roads are dirt. That wouldnít effect anything would it? Our work fine after 4 years and 50,000 miles. SO what is the point?
<Do that and get a good look at real life problems. Your valves can be field repairable w/out tools in 5 min. or 5 seconds. It doesn't matter when other things keep breaking and you are out of service to assist the public. > It has never happened, not a problem, maybe it is where you live, not here!
<You are the one saying that these rigs are required for everyone>DID NOT
<I am arguing for the "rest" of the fire service who doesn't print their own money. >Iím sure you read it took 3 days to get approval, that they pay for the entire yearly budget in insurance savings every 28 days. Take a lesson in free money you are currently wasting. 33% of the fire service has the worst ISO rating possible. The other 2/3ís averages a Class 5. Lots of money on the table, maybe the fire service is to lazy to bend over and pick it up, we werenít.
<You keep taughting your rigs performance. > You bet we are, everything else is nonsense. Remember the other posts on the board told horror stories of 400 gallon tanks and stupid ladder compliments, ours is a success story that paid for it self.
< now go play with it in the desert like a good boy. > Very profesional and it is ďyoung ladyĒ not boy.
12-31-1998, 06:10 PM #24STA2Firehouse.com Guest
The original post was for effectiveness of quints. Pros and cons. I apologize for the assumption you were not a female. But you do in fact live in desert don't you. But facts are facts. This has turned into a "FCFD is smatter than everyone else" bulletin board. My original postings on here were to point out concerns that should not be overlooked by the buying dept. Dallas still screening with a nurse I don't think is going on. 50% of the dept's doing that I doubt also. YOU brought up that your rigs will work in NY angle. I don't understand the point of your double standard opinions. Take a stand and stick with it. The two FDNY 1984 American La France/LTI's. Only Ladder 14 is still in service with serial # LT8402 and the other was LT8401. Ladder 14 should just now be about 15 yrs old. The previous Sutphens you speak of (I assume) are interesting like the La Frances. You speak highly of them now but when it suited you in an earlier post you said "as were their Sutphens and LTI's all lasted their normal 10 yr life in the CITY."
Your numbers are coming home to roost here. Are they out of service or in service like the people who ride on it think it is. Please inform me of the companies in these other cities mentioned that have quints. FDNY basements are not important. They should matter to you since you have an aversion to comparing your rigs to theirs when it suits you and almost mandating that all quints have to have what yours do and then taking a 180 and getting on me for talking about them. That would make for large vehicles. I know about the cramp angle and how yours is no longer than an FL80. That is not the point. The number of runs matter. Do I need to compare urban streets to rural streets. You know the difference. The one way 250 mile to edge of the sun runs are impressive but they are, thru your own admission, in the desert. Not many stops and starts, cars jumping in front of you and traffic control devices on top of a road surfaces that compare to the moon. Constant RPM's and way fewer stops and then not hard ones. I know CDL traing would fix that though right? Remember the SEAL's (U.S. Navy) K.I.S.S. theory. Have a happy and safe new year and as always be safe.
12-31-1998, 06:37 PM #25
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