Thread: Heavy Rescue/Pumper
01-05-1999, 07:28 PM #1jmwelchFirehouse.com Guest
Our Department is in the process of writing specs. for a heavy rescue/pumper.
Any suggestions or any pitfalls regarding this choice of apparatus?
01-06-1999, 12:12 PM #2FyrtrksFirehouse.com Guest
I have several ideas for a rescue pumper the to major ideas are planning and lighting. Planning is important becauseit's tough to make a truck with a T type tank a rescue pumper after the fact. Lighting and generators are another must please evaluate generators carefully I would say that if you can get a hydraulic generator that runs full load at engine idle go for it. I have many ideas feel free to email me.
01-06-1999, 06:32 PM #3STA2Firehouse.com Guest
I agree with Dan. Lighting and your generator are important. A PTO genarator is wonderful. It ususally will mount low and between the frame rails if designed into the apparatus. You say Rescue Pumper so I assume you don't want to eat up compartment space unless needed. Get one that will run all lighting, cord reels, etc. at idle BUT also one that will take over the electrical system of the apparatus and also run your cab A/C, emergency lighting, radios, etc. to take the load off your alternator and batteries. To do the later you will probably need to get a high idle option but the wear and tear on your electrical system will be lessened. As far as tool location goes I believe in 2 options. The first is in your rear compartment. Needs to be large and that will raise your hosebed especially if you run a 750 or larger tank. Tool placement here will depend on how it will respond. If primarily a Rescue Co. or first out Engine Co. on structure fires then no problem provided your policies allow for the first company to use tank water. If your first company always lays a supply line then the height may be a factor. Option two is for front bumper hydraulic reels with pre-connected tools. Our dept. uses our small spreader and cutter on 80% of our extrications and these will fit nicely here if the bumper is designed carefully. If all you do is put the reels up front you are building in your versatility just like if you ran the tools out of the rear compartment. They are center line of the apparatus and can go either direction equally. Also build in redundancy. A second power plant atleast and compatability amongst all your rescue systems. I recently sat on my volunteer dept.'s apparatus committee for two twin rescue pumpers and we are very pleased with them. E-Mail me for specifics or areas of concern you have. There are lots you can do. We came up with a huge amount of ideas during our research.
01-14-1999, 11:45 PM #4SBrooksFirehouse.com Guest
We have a walk in rescue as our primary squad, and a Class 'A' pumper as our secondary (reserve) squad. The reserve squad doesn't really run as a pumper, thankfully, as it's bed height is rather high. It's tool compartment is the officer's side, rear compartment, with two 100' reels, electric simo pump, two gas simo pumps, two spreaders, two O-cutters, 4 rams, a panel cutter and a combi-tool, all Amkus. Running the tools to the driver's side is not much of a problem, if you pull up to or past the accident. If you nose into the accident you lose 30' of hose to the length of the apparatus, and if you pull to the left of the scene, everything runs straight out of the compartment. This unit carries a decent complement of rescue and firefighting tools, but could certainly use a bit more space for cribbing. By using the latest, smaller equipment such as ppv fans, exothermic cutting torches, generators, etc., more room could be freed up. B/C it does not run as an engine in our system it does not carry a full complement of hose, but does have two 1 3/4" crosslays and an 1 1/2" bumper line.
Some things to think about when building a hybrid piece...It can be a good engine, it can be a good squad, it can be moderately sized...now pick two. The nature of squad work requires that you carry a lot of stuff, and you have to prioritize whether you want a low, easy to work from hose bed and a nice wheelbase/turning radius, or do you want to have that extra box of cribbing. . . ?
By the way, you can get an easily deployed 150' 1 1/2" attack line in one side of a bumper.
Good luck with your pumper, and when you do get it be sure to post plenty of pictures...and don't forget to take pictures with the compartment doors open!
Berwyn Heights V.F.D.
Prince George's Co., MD
01-15-1999, 11:22 AM #5FyrtrksFirehouse.com Guest
Sean's truck is a nice piece. I worked for Saulsbury and delivered it. He's right if you do alot of rescue company work, like he doesyou mayneed a true rescue. You have to take into consideration all those factors. PG County is different they do things different that other places, they respond more than one station/company to most calls. Where I have lived one department handles the call themselves. We have a much smaller call volume than PG County so therefore we do the same thing. PG County is Cooool i loved there and would prefer to be there. (Alot more action) If you have a smaller call volume/membership and don't run more than one rescue call a day then a Rescue Pumper may be the thing. If your like Sean and the rescue goes out 4 or more times a day and you have a larger membership you should be able to support a rescue
01-19-1999, 11:32 PM #6ljoeFirehouse.com Guest
About your pumper/rescue. If you do not rely on mutual aid during the day (you handle your own calls), and only 1 piece of equipment is going to get out, make sure you can do it all. You do not want to go to an extrication and not be able to put the car out when it turns out to be on fire.
If you would primarily run it as an engine, go with those priorities first. But think about the problems you might have for accidents. Not being able to pull past the scene - therefore rear mounted hyd cord reels lose 30 ft, not to mention the hassle of pulling it around the engine. Exhaust on the side you normally operate on.
The generator and lighting are key issues. Look at AMPS for hydraulic generators that have high KW outputs as well as running alternators in addition to the alternator on the motor. DC power problems seem to diminish. Factor in all your wattage though. The additional alternator draw something like 1800 watts per 100 amps of alternator power. Hydraulic electric simo pumps can draw up to 4400 watts under a full load, and quartz lighting can be added up. You can easilly see the need for a 15kw (minimum) generator. The AMPS runs off of the transmission and uses about 2hp/kw. So make sure your motor has some extra horsepower if you go this route. These generators are nice in that when you start the engine/squad/truck, it is running. It might not have full kw output at idle though, the pto is the limiting factor.
Some of your bigger manufacturers have rescue bodies for pumpers that are not excessively long ( 168"), can hold 750 gallons of water (maybe more), and still have 28" deep compartments.
Be sure that you think of everything you want to carry, lay it out before you choose options like slide-out trays, make it user friendly, try not to overload one side of the piece, and maybe leave a little room for expansion.
A cad program can help you determine how much room you have and whether things you thought were going to fit really are. I lay out campartments on a regular basis. Let me know if I can be of help.
01-29-1999, 11:49 AM #7dc14398Firehouse.com Guest
Just taking delivery of our rescue pumper. it has a rear mounted 1500 gpm pump. We went with the rear mounted pump as it gave us more compartment space. 5 full depth compartments., 1000 gals. of water, 40 gal. foam cell, 20 kw amps unit, light tower, 2 hyd reels, 2 electric reels, and much more. We also operate a rescue truck for large MVA's, rope rescue, confine spec, Air unit and other equipment. We went to many apparatus shows and many other fire departments before we got our resuce pumper. It was time well spent as we got great ideas.
02-07-1999, 02:41 PM #8CommgregFirehouse.com Guest
We just put into service a new rescue/pumper style truck. The best advice I can give it to look at as many trucks as possible during your design phase of writing your specs. Every truck that we looked at we were able to get some little feature that we liked or did not like. Our process took us to many different departments, truck manufacturers, and associated companies. We took all our information that we gathered and discussed each feature and then put it all into our own specifications. Some companies don't like it if you write your own specs, but if you do then you get exactly what you want. If I can be of any more help please reply back to my e-mail. A picture of our new truck is available here on firehouse.com. It is located under new deliveries. Search for Oswego Town Fire District in Oswego, NY
02-09-1999, 11:12 PM #9ChopsFirehouse.com Guest
I agree with l joe; Go with an AMPS system for lighting and general power. AMPS has the luxury to operate at any RPM unlike to majority of other hydraulic and all PTO Generators. Remember since most Generators operate at a fixed RPM and your running a pump, your pump is limited to 1 pump pressure.
Apparatus choice as well as equipment is a chore that takes a lot of research; weeding out truth and tale. Most companies that want your business will give or show a demo, esspecially HRT.
As with the guy from PGFD14, I recommend Amkus. Besides their full-line of HRT, They have the new "Ultimate" system that runs off of a PTO giving you unlimited resources as well as not filling up precious compt. space.
Any questions? Post Them. We'll let you know what we think. Good luck, It going to take a long time to design what you want, but it wil be worth it if you plan it out.
02-10-1999, 12:57 AM #10kaFirehouse.com Guest
We own 7 hydraulic generators from 20 to 35 kw that are not Amps, on pumpers and if you are pumping the make power just fine. They do not work at a fixed idle, speaking of three brands. We have never been limited to one pump pressure. Nor does an of the literature recomend it and we've never had any maintenance issues. The generators have not limited anything, not even aerial, pump and generator operations simultaneously. If the fast idle 1200 rpm is on they work just fine with the pump off. 70,000 miles and 4 years and counting says the others work too.
Don't limit your search for anything from generators to heavy hydraulic tools to one make, you'll only be hurting your department.
[This message has been edited by WebTeam (edited 02-10-99).]
02-11-1999, 05:36 PM #11fireFirehouse.com Guest
Does your department use Amkus extrication tools? Does your deparment have a pumper with an AMPs generator?
02-16-1999, 10:31 PM #12CapttomoFirehouse.com Guest
My advice - measure every piece of equipment you want to put into the rig. You might even think about building actual sized models of the compartments and test fitting all the equipment into your actual size compartments. Failure to plan is failing to plan. One department in my area just bought a $625,000 platform only to find that its gas powered fans and other equip. did not fit in the rig. Good luck.
02-26-1999, 05:16 AM #13ChopsFirehouse.com Guest
Fire-Yes, Our department does use Amkus Rescue Tools. We are quite happy with them; only very minor problems in the six+ years we've had them for. Our HRT system is on a dedicated Rescue Squad, so pumping is not an issue. However, I have seen pumpers with the AMPS system on board and they have nothing but good things to say about them. Some manufacturers of Apparatus are recommending them these days because of the ability to run them along with pumps, aerials, etc. This seems to be what "KA" is using, just with a different brand of generator.
KA-What are the other units available? I've only known of the AMPS to perform like this. Just wondering what brand you use since your so happy with their performance. Thanks.
06-14-1999, 12:55 AM #14DDFirehouse.com Guest
Does anyone have the a web site or e-mail address for AMPs generators?
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