03-11-1999, 10:04 PM #1CAPTAINSQ-1Firehouse.com Guest
Suggestions on new medium rescue requested
Our department is in the process of looking at different "medium" rescue squad trucks for the possible purchase in the year 2000. I am looking for any helpful recomendations or suggestions that you might feel would be helpful. We are leaning toward a 2-man cab walk-in to carry a total of 4 personnel for fire support, extrication, ventilation and basically a do-all truck. Any suggestions based on your trucks or other wise on brands of apparatus or compartment layouts or anything else you feel might be helpful would be appreciated. Thanks.
03-12-1999, 01:26 PM #2Daryl@MCFDFirehouse.com Guest
We put into service a SVI rescue last June. Its on a Freightliner FL-70 chassis with an extended cab. We run with 2 firefighters, you may consider the 4 door version and save the box area for equipment. Our rescue has a pto generator and a 9000 watt light tower that we felt was luxary but quickly found it to be well worth the price. This truck was featured in the new deliveries on SVI web site.The 4 bottle cascade system and extrication compartment were well designed.
03-13-1999, 10:02 PM #3Lt Kup4Firehouse.com Guest
We just put a Saulsbury Heavy Rescue into service last summer. I know you are looking for a medium, but I have a couple of suggestions. Put electric cords and hydraulic lines on reels. And Daryl is right, you will be glad that you put those light towers on. We have twin Will-Burt 9000 watt towers, and we use them quite a bit. Also, if possible, have your builder mount your equipment. This will allow the builder to make most efficient use of compartment space.
03-14-1999, 11:25 PM #4BC WhiteFirehouse.com Guest
My department operates out of a 20' walk-in on a Freightliner FL-80. As mentioned, the FL-70 is a good option for a medium duty. It turns well and has good vision all around. It also offers extra elbow room for the crew. Going with a 2-man cab will cost a bit less than a 4-man, and with a good box design, there can be plenty of room for 2 in the box.
If you go with a side entry door, you gain more cubic feet than going with the traditional rear entry doors.
Underside roll out compartments add more storage space.
The PTO generator takes up no compartment space, and is a low maintenance item.
We have 2-100' hydraulic hose reels powered by a gas simo pump, and we love them, but for a medium, you may consider going with 2 mini-pumps and 4-25' short hoses (if your hydraulic system offers mini-pumps).
Space and cost can be saved by deleting 2 hydraulic reels and a simo pump, and goimg with the mini-pump concept.
You may consider putting the cascade bottles under the squad bench to free up an exterior compartment.
Keep like equipment together. Electric tools and adapters in the same compartment as the electric reel, and the same goes for air and hydraulic equipment.
Make a list of the current equipment carried and get rid of what you don't need. We found that over the years our old rescue had equipment that we never used, because we upgraded some tools and never took off the old outdated tools. We were (and still are) like pack rats!
Then make a list of equipment you may purchase in the next 5 years or so. Design the compartments to fit the equipment you feel confident will be purchased in the future. We had an underside roll-out compartment that rode empty for 2 years before we bought a set of low pressure air bags (they kept getting cut from the budget....anyone ever have that happen?) When we bought them, they had a home.
Trying to find room for new equipment after the truck is in service can be a pain in the tail. The challange is to plan ahead.
Slide out tool boards and poly tool boxes help maximize space and make for easy deployment. Pull out/tilt down trays for over the wheel compartments can also save space and make it easier for the not so tall firefighters.
Send me an e-mail if you would like drawings of our rescue, it's just a little longer than what you are looking for, but may offer some ideas. firstname.lastname@example.org
And yes, it too is a Saulsbury!
03-16-1999, 08:54 AM #5jlw52Firehouse.com Guest
Take a look at Hackney. They may not be as fancy as Saulsbury, but they are tough. (they have sold thousands of beverage delivery trucks of similar design). We bought one on a 4900 series IHC in 1994 and it has been virtually trouble free (couple of light bulbs and a piece of flex exhaust pipe in 4+ years). If you are going commercial chassis, take the manufacturer's specs to your local dealer. You may get a better deal, you're sure to get better service if they sold it and the "PR" of buying locally always helps.
03-16-1999, 12:25 PM #6FyrtrksFirehouse.com Guest
I must agree Saulsbury is one of the best, if you are a department that likes alot of flash and dash.If you want a showpiece I would buy a Saulsbury. They are very expensive. I would look seriously at Hackney too they can do everything that you will need for a medium or heavy rescue. They have thousands more doors than ROM or Dover together. Go to the local Coke delivery guy and ask him. My local guy said the only problem he ever has with doors is the sloppy forklift driver. We do not have any close buy, but I would love to have a rescue pumper Hackney at work for a drivers truck. The Saulsbury name is good but it comes with a price $$ tag $$. I would liken it to buying a Ford Expidetion or a Lincon Navigator. The Lincon is nice but why waste the money when the Ford will do the same job.
Hackney will do the job better than the Saulsbury for less money and more cubic feet of storage, lower working height, and time proven roll-up doors.
West Elmira Fire Dept.
03-16-1999, 05:43 PM #7BC WhiteFirehouse.com Guest
Let's try to stay on track and be fair here. Our Saulsbury came in with bids that included E-One, 3-D, amd American Fire Fescue. Saulsbury was NOT the high bid ! So there goes the high $$$ theroy.
You can't compair a coke truck to a Saulsbury. It's ironic, the truck our Saulsbury replaced was a Betten Roll-up (better known as a coke truck), so I can speak from experience. (by the way, it's for sale, and we will throw in the red lights for free).
I worked off both trucks (fires & rescue calls) and there is a huge difference....no doubt.
Saulsbury is a custom apparatus builder, that builds trucks from the ground up to meet the needs of the department. None of the compartments we speced were what some truck builders call their "standard sizes"....we speced them to meet the needs of our equipment and operations.
Try adding a different door size or height to the Expidetion, Navigator, or even a Blazer, and see: 1. if it can be done, 2. how much it will cost (a little more that the standard or stock door).
The Saulsbury is not for everybody. I have seen many departments buy a standard rescue truck or pumper with options off of a set list and make the truck work.
I worked for Coca-Cola for 7 years, and 7 Up for 1, and to compair a beverage truck design to a specialized piece of fire or rescue equipment is not the same. Day and night.
I would like to see a Hackney last in Brooklyn or the Bronx! (all of the FDNY Rescues are Saulsbury's, as well as NYPD ESU Rescues). If the truck can meet their special needs, as well as the run load they experience and hang tough, I'm sure a smaller department will have a truck that lasts a long time.
I'm sure a beverage type truck works fine for the departments that have them. If you have something that works, stick with it.
If you are investing in a truck to meet your needs (now and in the future), and want experience to back it up, take a look at Saulsbury, but by all means, shake down all of the truck builders to see what they offer, and how they can help you.
They (Saulsbury) took good care of us, and made some great suggestions during the pre-construction conference that saved us money and they understood our needs.
The bottom line is that you get what your department needs, but as the old saying goes:
"You get what you pay for".
(I'll take the Navigator if my back is getting bad, and I'm going to travel over 100,000 miles).
03-17-1999, 07:08 AM #8FyrtrksFirehouse.com Guest
Just to clarify I worked for Saulsbury for 3 years. I was a delivery engineer. I will say quality is superb. I am glad to hear the have come down in price. When I worked there we were usually high bidder. I would buy a Saulsbury if they were lower than our last bid with them. We speced hinged doors and they wanted to build the truck with ROM roll-ups. Then to get the hinged doors it would cost us $ 5,000. I guess what I wanted to say was this Saulsbury isn't for everyone. If it works for you fantastic. I wasn't trying to put down a former employer just pointing out what I know.
West Elmira Fire Dept.
03-17-1999, 10:35 AM #9BC WhiteFirehouse.com Guest
I did not intend to sound so strong about my position.
I am just a big fan of the product..... just as many people are when it comes their pumpers from Pierce.
I don't think your comments were putting down your former employer at all, you were just sharing your experience, which is what this forum is all about.
I appreciate and respect your experience.
I hope all of our comments are able to help our brother....Captsq1.
03-18-1999, 09:32 AM #10jlw52Firehouse.com Guest
Don't know if your Roll-up was built as a rescue or converted from a coke truck. We bought ours in 94', before Hackney had a dealer in our area, so we dealt factory direct. They were easy to work with, offered constructive suggestions and "custom built" to our specs., to carry our equipment. Our Hurst system is mounted in roll out trays and our handtools are mounted on pull out tool boards (not thrown in old soda cases). Each compartment was designed to effectively store its'contents. We put movable shelves in a couple to allow for future flexibility. With the many options available, the beverage truck design can be an efficient custom built specialized rescue.
By the way, the FDNY recently put a couple Hackney air supply rigs in service. Guess we'll see if they can survive in Brooklyn.
03-23-1999, 06:56 PM #11PTFD21Firehouse.com Guest
Well we bought a light to medium duty rescue (I'm not sure which it is actually called) last year. It is on a GMC Top Kick chassis. I don't recommend this chassis as it has tires that apppear to be to small and it rides like a tank.I think the manufacturer was CVS out of OK.. The box is nice and our personnel mounted and kind of redesigned it to accomodate our equipment. We carry Extrication equip. ( spreader, cutters,on preconnected reels )a 3500 watt generator,a 6 bottle 4500 psi cascade system, rope rescue equipment, confined space equipment, rehab equipment, ice rescue equipment, and other assorted rescue equipment. We are starting to run out of room. The big thing I wanted to say was, if you can afford to upgrade and buy a Heavy rescue, DO IT. With all that is being included in the Fire Dept.'s realm you should plan for needing additional equipment, oh and by the way I do not recommend roll up doors.
Look at our <a href="http://members.aol.com/PT10FD/rescue3.htm">rescue 3</a> by clicking on the link.
[This message has been edited by PTFD21 (edited March 23, 1999).]
03-26-1999, 01:47 AM #12PhredFirehouse.com Guest
PTfd21 / Ed,
Your Rescue 3 is a handsome looking rig! You mentioned not likeing rollup doors -- can you give some details or reasons why? Rollup vrs hinged doors is a popular issue; give us your comments.
03-27-1999, 08:46 PM #13Dalmation90Firehouse.com Guest
We designed a heavy rescue in several years back. One of the things the department wanted was a fairly small, highly manueverable truck, and one that didn't require a CDL to drive. The results are at:
Of course, just after committing to the truck Connecticut followed the rest of the nation, and upped the CDL requirement to 26,001 lbs...and I think building a similiar truck on a heavier UD or Isuzu cab-forward chassis offers very interesting possibilities. Our truck has a turning radius of 20'; I think a 26,000lb chassis would go up 22-23' radius -- still pretty darn good, and would up the payload considerably! (www.udtrucks.com)
I think the only major thing we aren't happy with on the design was the airpack compartment in the rear -- the roll up doors allow a lot of road grime in, so we end having to give the packs a light washing/dusting once a month, but I think a set of traditional doors with good gaskets would solve the grime problem...our original thought was a single big door that would raise overhead to provide some shelter, and maybe we should have pursued designing it in hindsight!
Good things: very manueverable, nice electric system (Harrison Hydragen 15kw hydraulics driven by the engine), WilBurt light tower is beautiful (just don't move the truck with it still up...don't ask what happens!) Roll out shelves. Two hydraulic reels power the Hurst tool -- driver turns on the Hydragen, and flips the breaker for the Electric Hurst Pump and we are ready to start spreadin' and cuttin' There's also a cord reel plumbed in for a electric light to accompany the Hurst tool at night.
For carrying four people...I'm not a big fan of walk-ins...waste tremendous space! Go with a four man cab, either custom, or FL or Int'l four door cab...or build a small crew module at the front of the box.
03-31-1999, 12:12 AM #14ldillFirehouse.com Guest
we have run a 4900 int 4dr,rollup doors, since 1995 ,unit built by summit fire,edgewood ky . it has been excellent truck .make sure you build large enough for your uses-don't build too small. our unit is 34k gvw,weighs 26k loaded right now and rides great, it took us about 2 yrs to fill ours. it carries 25kw pto gen,2 mast lights 2 tripod lights -we might add more -4 bottle cascade,air pacs ,hydraulic tools with simo electric and gas power unit ,hydraulic,air and electric reels ,lifting bags ,roll out trays for tools and has front full width boxes - it still has some space we feel the 4dr cab gives more box room and really isn't costly-drop an e-mail for more info
04-05-1999, 11:01 AM #15SBrooksFirehouse.com Guest
Hey, what's the beef with walk ins? You get a lot more crew room, and very little dead space down the centerline of the apparatus. If all your equipment is properly secured, as it should be, what are your issues? Does anyone have any specific data showing walk-ins to be inherently less safe than cabs?
04-18-1999, 12:29 PM #16J T WhidbyFirehouse.com Guest
I am on a committe for our County, (Cherokee County, Canton, Georgia) to write specs for 3 medium duty rescue (non-walk in) trucks.
We must complete the specs by July 1. In order to meet the deadline we have much research to complete.
If you have recent rescue truck specs that you are willing to share please fax to 770-479-9040
All assistance will be greatly appreciated.
J. T. Whidby
05-09-1999, 11:05 PM #17GTFDLt61Firehouse.com Guest
My dept is in the same boat as CaptS1, we're looking to replace our current rescue with a bigger truck. We have a 'plumbers van' now that serves us very well, but doensn't have the proper seating or GVW for what we carry. Everyone's ideas have been quite helpful, my one question to throw out is about front mounted reels. For either jaws or electric cords, how much would fit, and how safe is it. I ask about safety, because a local department recently had an airbrake 'incident' at a structure fire which demolished the front of two of their trucks, one of which is out of service as a result. Anyway, thanks for your help guys, email with any suggestions.
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