1. #1
    mikey
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default Pierce Quantum survey

    I'm looking for some feedback in regards to how the users of the Pierce Quantum feel about it. My district is working on specs for a pumper and the Quantum seems to be the truck of choice at this point. What do you like about it and what do you dislike? Have you had any mechanical problems outside of the routine things that tend to go bad? Any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks.

  2. #2
    Drew Smith
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    My department does not have one but I have heard from those that do that the automatic steps can be slow and that some have been damaged. I always though the step was an unnecessary "bell & whistle."

    As for the rest of the rig, I think they are great except for that ugly grill and headlight cowl.

  3. #3
    ka
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    If you can get one without the automatic steps do it. The automatic steps can become slow, they break, and can come down on things that you might not see. BE SAFE!

    where and when has that ever occurred?????????????????????????????????????????? ?????/

  4. #4
    Firehose
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    I agree with you Drew, That grill bump on the front has turned what would be a great looking chassie into THE ugliest custom on the market. Spartian MFD or American LaFrance would be my choice.

  5. #5
    mikey
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    Thanks for your replies. We have a Quantum that was purchased in the first year they started making them and have had a few problems with it; number 1 being the air steps not working on occation. Supposedly they are fixed now. Anyhow, I happen to think that the Quantum is an ugly piece of equipment, but the guys who ride on it like the roominess in the cab. I ride in an Arrow and like it except for the lack of room in the cab. I'm told that the Sabre has quite a bit of cab room and I am interested in the Dash 2000 as I'm told it has more room than the Arrow. Any thoughts? Oh yeah, my dept has a fleet of Pierce trucks, and has had pretty good luck with them; that's why the emphasis is on Pierce.

  6. #6
    Drewbo
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    I agree with almost all. We speced a Quantum and felt the fancy steps are extra bells and whistles not needed on a piece of apparatus. Others include power windows! fancy spit headrests! A lot of money for a parade piece. On the other hand, for the money you can get a nice E-one, or Stuphen(sp?). Besides I agree with others, that the front is ugly.

    ------------------
    *************************
    * God Looked down and *
    * saw this was bad, it *
    * was bad, it was Drew *
    *************************

  7. #7
    BIG PAULIE
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    The steps scare me. The warning light for the steps down is located in the top center above the windshield. When you leave the station with the emergency lights on the warning light blends in and is hard to notice. With the head sets on it is also hard to hear the buzzer. I drove out of the station on a call yesterday with the rear steps down because the door did not shut al the way and just missed taking the steps out. Other cthen that it is a great engine.

  8. #8
    ricky
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    Drewbo- don't put Sutphen in the same class with E-One. There in no way to compare. E-One is building such junk there is no way it will last as long as a Sutphen.

  9. #9
    STA2
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    Ricky lets not be hasty about condemning
    E-One so fast. I am not gonna call Sutphen junk but there Hux bolt system is "interesting" to say the least. Unlike Sutphen, E-One has NEVER had a failure. Sutphen is a major player among Seagrave, Smeal, Pierce, LTI, etc. They have ALL had FAILURES. What reasons do you have to call E-One junk? Are you sure that it is not just little problems that occur with every builder? Look at it this way, when you set it up and it falls down that makes it closer to being junk than when it stays up like its supposed to. Be safe.

  10. #10
    resqcapt
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    STA2,
    We just received our fourth Sutphen, a 100' platform. Our other Sutphens are two 75' sticks and a rescue/pumper (not impressed with this one at all). While I feel their bodies leave something to be desired we have found the aerials to be excellent. They are a very sturdy ladder to work from.

    I'm interested to find out details about the Sutphen failure. I am not familiar with any but really haven't asked around much since we bought our first one in '93.

    Let me know where I can get info. about this failure so I can pass it on to my department.

    Thanks,

    Steve

  11. #11
    Fyrtrks
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    I have never heard of a sutphen failure but i know of a few problems. ! Syracuse NY jacked in the front yard on the drivers side the tower tipped over because of the water running out the building had softened up the ground under the outrigger. It could have been better placement. Another NY Dept had some problems with cables on thier 65+' no failure. They also had some cracked welds on the turntable the dealer did not build in a independent test at the time of delivery. The welds were fixed and the inital test and retest were taken careof by the factory at no charge. The dealer had it taken from his next commission.

  12. #12
    ricky
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    E-One Maybe my biggest gripe with E-One is their local salesman. I have seen Houston's ladders and I do like they compatmentation both inside the cab and out. Also the EMS compartment in their new engines is great. I have never really crawled around Houstons E-One's but I do have some experiance with an E-One 20 miles west of Houston that was delivered in 1994. To date the A/C still doesn't work, the rollbar between the front and the rear of the cab is still primered, the vinyl around the gear selector is wrinkled and the welds on top of the cab stand out like a sore thumb. I would have never accepted it. I hope for everyone involved Houston gets what they expect from E-One- if they don't there sure will be some headaches for someone in five or six years. Who knows if they get the quality and SERVICE they deserve I may become an E-One convert but at this stage I'll take a Sutphen ladder over an E-One.

  13. #13
    TRUCK 110
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    My comment is only this..You get what you buy..If you got your Heart set on a "W" piece..you buy it..
    The inherent problems that come with a Particular Piece is really the Problem with the Person,or Persons, who buy(s) the piece..they did not investigate these problems.. All of your Concerns about the Steps are justifiable, I have the Same Concerns with these too, but they are the New Kid on the Block, just like the Midmount TeleBoom of E-One; we are ALL E-One here,and we own a Midmount.

    For All the Sutphen Fans, I Feel that their Towers are most probably the Strongest Units on the Market. For I live in the Syracuse Area, and Saw the Incident of the Topple of the Tower..but What You Don't Know is the Building Wall that Fell, From the 3rd Story, into the Basket Here, and Buried the District Chief and Operator during a Post Fire Examination of the Fire Building..The Sutphen Grunted,Squeaked, and Rivets popped; and the Boom started to Bend towards a Half Circle, but it never Failed, or anything Broke off..Destroyed the Basket of course..But the Sutphen Corporation repaired the Piece, Tested every Section and Diagnosed their Piece of Workmanship, to continue to Build these Bears..Now this is From an E-One person..

    Again..You get what you pay for ..Don't Condemn..Investigate like we are doing here..

    Someone thought it was the Best..and we live with it..

    Concerning Quantums..There are 4 in this County, and I have Heard no Compaints except the Steps Bickering, and We get 160" of Snow here, so Snowbanks and placement plays a Big part here....
    ------------------


    [This message has been edited by TRUCK 110 (edited April 29, 1999).]

    [This message has been edited by TRUCK 110 (edited April 29, 1999).]

  14. #14
    Tom Lafleur
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    Go with a KME.

  15. #15
    SMOKEYSAM
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    Tom, Please, I thought the topic was fire trucks. Where in the world did KME come into this discussion. Pierce does build a nice truck, but the new design sucks. Tom, just kidding about KME, my town just took delivery on a fleet of them, for the sanitation department as trask trucks, LOL

  16. #16
    LtKup4
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    Mikey, there are several Quantums in the St. Louis area (I live in your district). Contact Florissant, Boles, etc and go see their trucks in action. Are you getting just a pumper, or a rescue pumper. Or, maybe a Squirt. All of the major manufacturers make a decent truck; they all have minor problems. Good luck in your search and make sure you spec it out carefully to get what you want.

    When is 4 house going to open?

  17. #17
    mikey
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    LtKup4, we saw the Quantum that Florissant has and talked to the crew. They were not impressed with it. We run a Quantum out of House 3 right now and have mixed reviews on it. At the present we are looking seriously at the Dash 2000. Kirkwood has a new one that we were impressed with. The truck is going to be a rescue/pumper for station 4. We thought about a ladder but put it off for a few more years. Cenral County is getting a 100ft. platform in September, so there will be a number of ladders in the area. I would think that in 3 years or sooner we will have a ladder running out of our House 1. House 4 is scheduled to open this fall, probably sometime in November. Take it easy.

  18. #18
    Joker
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    Wait a second. Didn't this guy ask for specific info about the Pierce Quantum? Why is everyone going off on a rant about E-One, Sutphen, and dare I say it in the same sentence, KME??

  19. #19
    LT trk106
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    Weve had a quantum here for about a year now, and have not had any trouble with the steps at all. We had some minor trouble with the A.C. but that was fixed right off. We also had some trouble with the pump not coming out of gear after a fire. This was found to be a problem with the trans. not the truck.The tran. is electric , and when the problem came up it displayed a code that the sales rep. was able to figure out in a short time.Other than that its been a very good truck for us. Its our second peirce.

    LT.

  20. #20
    TEKRSQ
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    We have several Quantum Rescues. They are definetly roomy and the looks "grow" on you after awhile. We had a few problems with the steps when we first got them, but if you keep them greased, there doesn't seem to be any problems. Our biggest problems are the rear ends. They keep "moving". They truck doglegs and handles like crap. I understand some of the other jurisdictions have had problems with the front end bottoming out, but so far we haven't had that problem.

    ------------------
    IAFF 995
    When it has to be done right,
    CALL THE RESCUE CO.!!!!!

  21. #21
    medic13
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    My department has ordered two quints. I will let you know if the step is that bad.

  22. #22
    STA2
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    A local dept in our county just took delivery of a Quantum. Very, very, very large rig. They actually have streets they can't go down. They park and walk in. I agree its all in how you spec it but please. As far as the cab it is nice. Very roomy and well layed out. As far as the workmanship, well its a pierce so figure it out. The steps are another thing. The evening I went to see it they had 2 accidents w/the men that day involving the steps. The steps have been known to freeze in the up (closed) position in our state. You actually have to force them down. The remedy they were given was a can of spray to put on the actual working parts after they forced them down. When you get to the scene and the steps don't come down, well that a big step. Electric over hydraulic on something that is opened so often- enough said. just my thoughts. Be safe.

    Larry


  23. #23
    Bob Snyder
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    Although I don't have first-hand experience with them, I've looked at them, and I can't imagine that the drop-down steps and other power accessories are worth the trouble. They're probably really popular with the dealers, though...the long-run prospects for repair revenue have to be fabulous!

    There are a few other practical things to consider. For example, can you even open the doors with those swing-downs on all of your streets? I know we couldn't. Some of our streets are just too narrow.

    On a more general note, have you looked at Pierces at shows lately?? I like Pierce in terms of overall quality (we have a 1980 Arrow Quint and our 1972 Mack CF was refurbed by Pierce), but they're building these things like SUVs. Power windows and cloth seats??? What's next, a six-CD changer and built-in child safety seat?? I know that they claim (as one sales rep did) that these things are built to last, just like their bodies, frames, etc., but I really question the need for all of this on any piece of fire apparatus. I was also a bit put off by another rep who gave the "NFPA says that you should be cleaning all gear before leaving the scene" routine in answer to the cloth seat issue. Get real! Buy a Dash or an Arrow, spec them down to get rid of the silly bells and whistles, and Pierce will build you a great rig.


    [This message has been edited by Bob Snyder (edited July 12, 1999).]

  24. #24
    pikepole
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    Mikey,
    I drive a 96 Quantum pumper, let give you my opinion and some of the problems we've encountered. First all this is probably the last pumper I would purchase, for the money there are much better pieces out there. Including Pierce's other models.
    As for the fancy fold down steps, they have been no problem, it takes about 1-2 seconds for them to fold up once the doors shut, so your drivers need to adjust for this. They do make it easier on the knees when exiting the piece. Now for the doors, ours have had to be adjusted about every 2-3 weeks for the last 6 months, they either will not allow you to open them from the inside handle, or they need to be pulled so hard to make the latch open from the inside that most people can't, and wait for some one else to open the door from the outside. A new problem that surfaced 4 days after the last adjustment is that the officers door will not close properly. This has been a recuring nightmare with us.
    Another more serious problem has been with the electronics that manage the engine. We've had intermittent problems with the DDEC when it rains hard. This has run the gamut from poor shifting, to the piece shutting down while in operation. The DDEC box on our piece is located within the left front wheel well, while it is a sealed unit this seems like a poor location to me.
    Our most serious problems have been with the springs. At about 24k miles while making a right turn onto a side street the left front main spring broke about 8 inches from the rear shackle. The spring separated 2-3 inches(I have an impressive polaroid of it). We had to have the piece towed, or rather roll-backed since they cannot be towed due to the design of the front end, the piping and radiator will be damaged by trying to lift the front end. We replaced both sets of front springs. 1 month later the right rear main spring broke just aft of the axle line. We replaced just the one spring set that time.
    I have heard that this is not an isolated problem, and that Pierce has switched spring vendors. Our pumper has 27k miles on it now and we are just waiting for the next thing to go wrong. We have an 86 Arrow with 119k miles as a reserve pumper and we have had no where near the problems with it, so I'm not bashing Pierce. But then again Ford had it's Edsel.
    Sorry this was so lengthy, but the list is long. Good luck with your decision.

  25. #25
    mikey
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    Thanks for all of the replies on this topic. I just went with a group up to the Pierce plant and we compared some of their equipment. We are opting for a Dash 2000. As I'm sure I stated before, we have a Quantum that's about 3 years old and have had a few problems with it; every truck has it's flaws though. The majority of the guys just don't like the truck or rather some of the things about it. With some of the other models offering comparable roominess in the cab, the Quantum loses some of it's advantages over the other models. Supposedly, Pierce is working out the bugs on the Quantum, and I would have to beleive that as we have 5 Pierce trucks now dating back to 1985, and have had good luck for the most part with them. Thanks again for the input.

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