1. #76
    Savage / Hyneman 08'

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    Quote Originally Posted by donethat View Post
    DFDMAXX:
    I think one of the reasons manufactuers get away with putting 50,000#+ on two axle chassis is that NFPA requires an auxilary braking device such as a JAKE Brake, transmission retarder, or a Telma electric retarder. These devices go a long way on stopping the rig without a lot of load on the brakes. The Air Force refueler is probably over the GVW and probably has no auxilary braking device. It was desiged to drive around air bases at 25 - 30 mph. I think a self steer tag axle would be their best choice to make it a legal rig GVW wise, and pick up some additional braking capability.
    I understand why they do it. We are not covered by any of the weight restrictions imposed by the state ( at least here in Wisconsin ) regarding axle weights or spacing, we are only expected to work within the confines of the manufactures specification.

    The individual states make laws regarding weight in part to protect the roads or bridges from to much deterioration, but the other part is safety.

    If they have deemed that safe operation of a large truck requires a certain amount of brake capacity to be safe, then why the exemption? By their own criteria a truck with fewer foundation brakes is not safe, regardless if a truck has an auxiliary braking system such as a Jake, Telma, transmision retarder, etc. They are called "auxiliary" braking systems for a reason. They do not take the place of the "foundation" brakes found at each wheel position.

    Now I am not saying that a large ladder truck needs two more axles under it to meet state weight laws. By the time you put them on, you would have a lot less compartment space and I have no idea where you would put the outriggers.

    I'm just saying that maybe we need to be somewhere in between. The state grants us permits to run heavy with standard equipment, it's just a money issue. But there are limits. The state will not grant us a permit to run the way some fire apparatus do. Why? They say it's unsafe.

    Now, I'm not some safety sally who wants to change your firetruck. My experience with braking systems as an operator and a mechanic makes me believe that this is a serious issue when the weight goes up and the brake capacity goes down. Maybe the disc brakes help the brake capacity vs. weight ratio. Any info would be appreciated.
    We do not rise to the occasion. We fall back to our level of training.

  2. #77
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    Cool Weight Restrictions

    In many states, exemptions for weight and size have nothing to do with safety. It's who has the most effective political lobby.
    In the mid-west state I grew up in there are weight and size exemptions for forestry trucks, mining trucks, and age exemptions for farm vehicles.

    I could drive, and did at 14 years old, a farm tractor pulling two trailers full of hay bales, and a duece and a-half straight truck full of corn or wheat even though you had to be 16 to get a drivers license. As long as you were on a back country road and not on a state or federal highway and were sponsered by an adult it was legal. Same as most states don't require CDL's for fire fighters even though the rigs are being driven very aggressively at high rates of speed.

  3. #78
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    OK, I got a chance to get to the scales today with that big sucker. We weighed in about 71K. GVW is 68,400 per the plate on the truck, and the curb weight is listed at 26,400 (I believe that's with the filters, reels, etc). Unless I transposed a number somewhere (didn't take notes since I was within an hour of being home), those should be accurate numbers.

    Yes, it's still overweight, but not by 7K. It could probably use a tag axle, but that's something we're gong to discuss with the board and the guys that know more about trucks than I do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    OK, I got a chance to get to the scales today with that big sucker. We weighed in about 71K. GVW is 68,400 per the plate on the truck, and the curb weight is listed at 26,400 (I believe that's with the filters, reels, etc). Unless I transposed a number somewhere (didn't take notes since I was within an hour of being home), those should be accurate numbers.

    Yes, it's still overweight, but not by 7K. It could probably use a tag axle, but that's something we're gong to discuss with the board and the guys that know more about trucks than I do.
    Did you weigh the axles?

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    Catch22,
    Was the tank full?

    6000x8.3(lbs per gal)=49,800 of water.
    26,400+49,800=76,200 minimum without anything extra.

    IF it was 71k gross, then your about 5,200 minimum over Gross.

    I do think a tag would help with this just make sure it has good brakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefengineer11 View Post
    Did you weigh the axles?
    We had to split-weigh it, since their scale doesn't go above 60K. We did the tandems together. I don't remember what it was for front/rear exactly, seems like it was 18K front, 53K on the tandems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ledebuhr1 View Post
    Catch22,
    Was the tank full?

    6000x8.3(lbs per gal)=49,800 of water.
    26,400+49,800=76,200 minimum without anything extra.

    IF it was 71k gross, then your about 5,200 minimum over Gross.

    I do think a tag would help with this just make sure it has good brakes.
    The 26,400 included the filters, reels, and hose, all of which we removed. When I say filters, don't think I'm talking about small filters. One of them was about 3' in diameter and probably 4' or so tall. The hose reels were rather large, as well, and equipped with some heavy freaking hose.

    Like I say, we're going to revisit the tag axle thing. But, by the way, 71K - 68K = 3K.

  7. #82
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    Catch22,
    You say the curb weight was 26,400, if you added a full tank of water that would be 49,800 of water, so it would be 76,200.

    thats why I asked if your tank was full.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ledebuhr1 View Post
    Catch22,
    You say the curb weight was 26,400, if you added a full tank of water that would be 49,800 of water, so it would be 76,200.

    thats why I asked if your tank was full.
    I understand. Let me try it this way, the plate on the door that includes all the original equipment has the curb weight of 26,400. The actual curb weight without all the stuff we removed it much less. And yes, the tank was full. We had just refilled it after a run.

  9. #84
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    Default Chute on Dump Valve

    "HSFDChief600"
    We have the chute and have used it many times. It may slow the flow slightly but on a 10" dump you cannot tell much difference. It is much easier and time saving than putting your truck on a bind or the time having to back into that position .

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    I understand. Let me try it this way, the plate on the door that includes all the original equipment has the curb weight of 26,400. The actual curb weight without all the stuff we removed it much less. And yes, the tank was full. We had just refilled it after a run.
    Brother - I'll let everyone else nitpick your rig to death... I'll just share one simple phrase with you.

    "Good Luck With It... and Be Safe Out There!"
    FTM-PTB DTRT

    Everything I state on here is to support and aid my fellow firefighters. Everything I post is my opinion only, and in no way should be taken as an official opinion of any Company, Department, or Municipality I represent... oh and this includes Pierce Mfg, as so their legal department has advised me; since they apparently also invented the right to control "Free Speech".

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by laddertruckgoes View Post
    Brother - I'll let everyone else nitpick your rig to death... I'll just share one simple phrase with you.

    "Good Luck With It... and Be Safe Out There!"
    Excellent advice. I'm not going to tell somebody what fits their department's needs. If it works, then great. If not, then lesson learned next time.
    Assistant Chief
    Elberta Volunteer Fire Department
    http://www.elbertafire.com

    "Find a purpose in life so big, it will challenge every capacity to be at your best."

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by laddertruckgoes View Post
    Brother - I'll let everyone else nitpick your rig to death... I'll just share one simple phrase with you.

    "Good Luck With It... and Be Safe Out There!"
    I appreciate it.

    I'll tell you the way I look at it. We're a vollie department with a $60K per year budget trying to provide the best service we can. We get creative at times, and push the envelope at times. But we do make things the safest possible.

    If for a second I thought that this truck would hurt or kill someone, it would be pulled out of service. We've taken steps to make sure that doesn't happen, and I'm sure we'll take other steps as time goes on.

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